The Phoenix Lights Case - In Depth

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posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 05:17 AM
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Don't have time to read it all at the moment, but I live in Tucson and recently saw something that reminded me of these lights. It lasted only a couple minutes but it sure seemed just like it




posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 10:57 AM
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Thanks for groingrinder's account, I was hoping to see that. As a reminder though, I'm only suggesting that flares account for the second, 10pm sighting. Had the lights been visible for more than 5 min, this could be ruled out, but no videos show them existing for more than that duration.

I'll definitely read the account though, as likely it concerns the earlier sighting, which is still unexplained.

At least one air traffic controller, a witness named Bill Grava, has commented on the unusual lights, but alas I am still looking into many of the witness accounts. I had hoped to include them here, but one of my main sources that names these witnesses, is a documentary now purged from my DVR, so having to go other routes. (hint: "until I erase" is more like 6 months it seems).



Grava's comments:



Air traffic controller Bill Grava was on duty on March 13 at Sky Harbor International Airport. He, too, saw the lights, but not until they were on the southern horizon, slowly disappearing behind South Mountain. The lights were so bright that he thought they might have been flares.

He confirms that the object or objects did not register on radar as they passed overhead, a fact seconded by Captain Stacey Cotton of Luke Air Force Base. But both admitted that that doesn't rule out the possibility of a group of airplanes. Cotton says that the radar used by air traffic controllers reads signals emitted by transponders in the airplanes themselves.

Normally, in a formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on its transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could have passed by without detection.

Grava says that depending on the planes' altitude, that may have been perfectly legal.

members.aol.com...

Once I can look back into all of these and redo some of that research, I'll post these all as a followup. Will include a lot of witnesses who saw either or both events, such as residing UFOlogists (a lot in Phoenix area), an amateur astronomer who states he saw the planes, and name some of the other video witnesses, etc.

EDIT - Not sure who stickied the thread, as I would not presume to do so for one of my own, unless for a forum informational nature, so just didn't want anyone to think otherwise. For this reason, I'm untopping the thread, and simply adding a link to the Best Cases stickied thread, to make it easy to find.


[edit on 31-12-2006 by Gazrok]



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 11:43 AM
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a little follow up on the description of multiple flights on radar:

yes, the lead is normally the only aircraft squawking a code (to reduce scope clutter), but the controller would most certainly know that there were more aircraft in the flight. it's a requirement that they inform us of that, because we have to increase the amount of separation from other aircraft depending upon how many are in the flight.

but from what i've read of this controller's report, he wasnt working a flight of military aircraft, and was just as baffled as everyone else.



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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then again, what the gentleman in the source states about height effecting how fast the objects appear to be travelling is quite correct, and the approach control operating below 18000ft would not be watching aircraft in the center's airspace above. and since nobody bothered to ask for the tapes before they were erased (we keep them 15 days, and we hold them indefinitely in the event of an incident), we will probably never know for certain.



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 12:42 PM
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Having personally witnessed may UFO sightings including the Phoenix Lights, I can say without a doubt that it was not flares. I have seen hoaxers out using flares and have immediately been able to tell the difference. Flares put out huge columns of smoke which is easily seen in their bright light. If you have six flares in a line, then you will have six smoke columns as well.




posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
Flares put out huge columns of smoke which is easily seen in their bright light. If you have six flares in a line, then you will have six smoke columns as well.


i've seen many flare drops at night, and you dont see the smoke....not saying they were flares, just pointing out the incorrect statement.



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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Groingrinder, was your sighting at 10pm, or earlier, on March 13, 1997? I saw a few of your posts on this, but haven't seen this clearly stated. Thanks.



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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Just a bump to see if Groingrinder has any more info, or if anyone knows of a post where his Phoenix Lights sighting was detailed? Thanks.



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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Outstanding research Gazrok. Former City Councillor Barwood has spoken of a structural taped v-shaped object video close up that night, a couple of years ago by someone who claimed in was picked up by someone claiming to be a friend. It was gone after that. I recently seen the Barwood documentary and was pretty-surprised. The documentary included footage of the suddenly-silent City Council meeting where all ignored her address of the event a night or two before and how other Councillors then went on to other business -- boom.

Dallas



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 06:11 PM
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I have the vids on these witnesses, including the guy who took the vid of the v-formation silently going across his home the night before or after. As well as the singular group joining up the night before the big Phoenix sighting. I have been in the process of indexing all my vids of shows and still have aways' to go..when I get to that one I'll bring out his name and as I recall short details of what he'd seen and taped. (not referring to the Man, his Son & Wife witnesses of the V sliding across their neighborhood).

Wondering what happened to the truck driver since as I have not seen anything more since his initial interview as a non-believer to beliver and his appearance on the Delosoto analysis.

Dallas



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 07:29 PM
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I have some research on Barwood, just hadn't had the time to add it yet.



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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You know your stuff Gazrok. I highly respect your work and conclusions all ways, as it's thorough.
Just wanting to converse a bit about some anomalies I've noticed on this event and it's participants.

Respectfully

Dallas



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 08:53 AM
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If I recall correctly, Barwood didn't actually see the event, just was taking a stand for the community as her constituents wanted answers.





Article from The Arizona Republic.

May 11, 1997.
X-Files is Opened Into Phoenix "UFO", BarWood asks staff to investigate lights

By Susie Steckner and Chris Fiscus.

It's not exactly the kind of made-for-tv case those X-files agents would investigate. But, says Frances Emma Barwood, those strange lights in the Phoenix sky should be checked out by city staff, at the very least.

"I asked them to find out if it's a hoax or what," the Phoenix councilwoman said Friday. "I did not see it. I wish someone would have called me.

"Apparently, people all over the city got video of it. They all said it was as big as a football field."

So Sculley -Sheryl, the assistant city manager, not X-files FBI Agent Dana Scully - has asked police to look into the sightings, at Barwoods request.

"I guess they'll ask Sky Harbor, ask the military, look at videos, I'd love to see all the videos," Barwood said.

In March, callers from Prescott Valley to Tucson flooded the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle to report the appearance of a boomerang-shaped, lighted object.

The center called it "the most dramatic sighting" reported in the past two or three years. In the following weeks, it drew hundreds of calls - even one from Las Vegas - and resulted in an inch-thick stack of written reports, center Director Peter Davenport said. Then, in April, the sighting was featured on the out-of-this world radio program called The Edge of Reality, which is produced in New York City.

"Personally, I think it's something the Air Force is working on, some sort of large transport," Barwood said.

Does she believe in UFOS? "That's a good question," she said. "I guess I have an open mind." Since God created the universe, she said, "Why couldn't he have created others?"

UFO researchers so far say they have no explanation, despite asking questions around Luke Air Force Base and local airports.

Davenport, meanwhile, is thrilled to hear that a public official is taking the sightings seriously.

"As far as I know, this is the first time I've ever heard of a local or state body taking an official stand," he said. "I'm encouraged. I'm heartened by that."

At a City Council meeting this week, Barwood said she was "a little curious" about the recent sightings. She said a television news crew asked her about the lights, and piqued her curiosity.

The crew was from the show Extra, which aired a segment Thursday about the "Phoenix UFO mystery."

Barwood said the main reason she asked the city to look into the matter is because the TV crew asked why no one was investigating the reports.

"I said, 'I'll ask.'"

"I don't know why they (the government) don't check it out and if it was nothing, say it was nothing," Barwood said. "Being there were videos of it, it has people's curiosity. Why not check it out and see if it's a hoax?"

www.ufocasebook.com...

EDIT: added local story regarding Barwood's inquiries.

[edit on 3-1-2007 by Gazrok]



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Barn

Obviously the lights in this picture can't be part of a solid object,otherwise the stars would be blocked out!



[edit on 31/12/06 by Barn]


I'm sorry to put this bulky quote in here with the picture and all, but I posted something up a little higher, and haven't seen a response. John Lear observed that the lights were in a missing man formation (traditional flying salute for a fallen brother in arms), and I'm wondering if that, as insignificant as it may seem, could have had a bearing on anything?

Sorry if this question seems simple, please don't laugh. I just like to investigate all avenues in a situation, and I'm not sure if it could be relevant or not.

Thanks for any follow-up thoughts you may have on this observation.

Dan



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 11:13 AM
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I'm sorry to put this bulky quote in here with the picture and all, but I posted something up a little higher, and haven't seen a response. John Lear observed that the lights were in a missing man formation (traditional flying salute for a fallen brother in arms), and I'm wondering if that, as insignificant as it may seem, could have had a bearing on anything?

Sorry if this question seems simple, please don't laugh. I just like to investigate all avenues in a situation, and I'm not sure if it could be relevant or not.


If we didn't have an admitted military exercise, I suppose we could speculate, but in this case, there was an admitted flare exercise, Project Snowbird (aptly named as it involved visiting planes from the north, MD), and no acknowledgement of a "missing man" from the MD Nat. Guard. From other flare footage, the pattern seems consistent (for the second sighting), and the "missing man" formation may just be reading too much into it.

The video still above was prior to the 10pm sightings. The video is much more impressive than my screen pic, and I've only seen it on that special, not anywhere online. However, the video lights (for this vid) appear to be jets moving in formation as they move in a straight line with a little deviation between lights, etc. and at a pretty good clip.



Obviously the lights in this picture can't be part of a solid object,otherwise the stars would be blocked out!


The marks aren't stars, it's a grainy video. Of course, bright lights can also block out the stars, which is why you won't see any stars around it when looking up at a street light at night. I'm supposing that that is what made many feel it was a solid object. Same reason you can see more stars in the country than you can in the city.

[edit on 3-1-2007 by Gazrok]



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 11:37 AM
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Cool Gazrok, I suppose I could have been more specific when I suggested Barwood's last appearance was..I'd say not more than a couple of years ago. Discovery was running the /97 Phoenix deal in almost real time eg 2005..but what she had to say was startling. Especially the tape taken by this person. I don't think I recorded that one -- I might have but it will be awhile before I know as I have so many tapes of hours of stuff still to index.

Dallas



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 01:39 PM
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great job as always Gaz.

i recall there being eyewitness accounts on the UFO documentary Out of the Blue...the one that always sticks out to me is the one where the guy is saying that you could have landed 40 B-2's on the wing of the craft.

uhh...thats pretty big lol



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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The documentary I took the screen shot from was in early 06, Feb, I think, on the Travel Channel. I believe it was simply titled, "The Phoenix Lights" and was one of the best specials I've ever seen on the subject.

I had it DVR'd, but lost it, but luckily still had the pics I had taken from it. If I see it again, I'll get some vid capture.



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
The documentary I took the screen shot from was in early 06, Feb, I think, on the Travel Channel. I believe it was simply titled, "The Phoenix Lights"


i'm assuming it wasn't the documentary done by the Dr. who wrote the book of the same name?



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 01:59 PM
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Gazrok,
As always, an interesting topic.
My take on the scenario is the flares (second incident) were damage control or "plausible deniability" for the earlier incident.

For some reason, something we were flying was seen, when it wasn't supposed to be.

Once calls began coming in reporting "objects", the PTB realised something had to be done. Their luck came in the form of Snobird; which may, or may not have already been aloft.

Did that make any sense ?


Lex





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