Originally posted by boyg2004
Yes. 70%. What's your point?
- A growing 70%; a scale of private housing that couldn't be further from your notions of council housing being "universal".
Should Lab have a conspiracy to gain control of the housing market, & therefore exert more influence on the masses, one must introduce a
collapse of unimaginable proportion.
- Which I'm sure is a fascinating prospect to you but it's still one that resides wholly in the realms your own fantasy.
There isn't a single serious commentator that believes Labour is attempting to "gain control of the housing market
" in the manner you keep
trying to claim, nor of trying to "introduce a collapse of unimaginable proportion"
Where do you get this nonsense from?
All the recent serious international comment (some of which I have reproduced earlier) is saying that, whilst one cannot ever be complacent, the
British economy is in very good shape -surprisingly good considering the length of time it has been going so well and the general cyclical nature of
You might not like that but that is the truth of the matter.
Banks, suffering from loss of custom
- Did it ever occur to you that banks are simply adjusting to the present realities of todays market
(in it's free & liberalised present condition thanks mainly to changes made by the tory party during the 1980's - 1990's)?
Or are all the banks now all in on this 'socialist plot'.....& all the serious international commentators blind to it?
In the instance of interest rates rising steadily to quell the housing price boom and curb borrowing, the government advises that wage
increases must be reduced to cap inflation caused by a runaway housing market and incredible debt commitments by the British public.
- Yes & if the sun fails to come up tomorrow we're all in trouble then too.
Stringing a series of highly unlikely 'just supposes' together without any evidence of the events themselves actually happening is not really much
of a theory.
UK interest rates are still historically very low, despite the moderate recent rises, as is our inflation.
......& the amount of private debt the public have saddled themselves with, whilst in parts (but only parts) alarming, is hardly the 'fault' of the
Here’s some of your quotes from politics.abovetopsecret.com...
You'll not find anything in what I wrote supporting your
'it's all a plot by this Labour Gov'
So…a need by the government for wages to be capped
- This indicates nothing & is hardly anything new.
British Govs since the mid 1900's on (of all political 'colours') have periodically called for, & even forced, wage restraint, esp in the public
whilst debt levels are at a record high
- This is a worry but it is private debt that is the worry, not the public sector's debt levels (which as a % of national earnings are relatively
Private debt is relatively high but the national debt is not.....& private debt compared to earnings & the assets on which it is secured is not
generally a problem.
Of course if you insist on going with the whole idea of a 'total financial melt-down scenario' then all bets are off.....& so is the idea that the
Gov could gain "control" in the resultant chaos.
Everybody would be in deepest trouble, public and private sector.
But you also seem confused here.
Are you now advocating the state directly step in to (& take control of) the public's private debt (private financial affairs)?
whilst housing prices are at a record high
- I have expressed my concerns at the 'monopoly money' state of the current housing market.
But, given the background & the market's private character, laying all of these problems at the door of this Gov is both illogical & wrong.
How about if we get Japanese style prices or inheritable mortgages?
The sky didn't fall in for them either.
whilst interest rates, & therefore repayments, are rising & predicted to continue
- Yes but only moderately.
Nobody serious is talking about a return to the enormous heights (nor sustained for such long periods) as they were under the last tory Gov.
whilst New Labour continue to tax the population at unprecedented levels
It's just more lazy biased garbage editorial from the Mail group (the Standard is part of).
With tax credits & benefits accounted for UK personal taxes aren't high, a little higher for some, it's true but not most.
What they don't like to admit is that yes it is perfectly true that the 'total UK tax take' has risen to a record; but only cos UK earnings are so
British business taxes are low too.
It's pretty basic economics but for the lumpen right-wing it's clearly a concept far beyond their pathetic grasp.
It's also always better to pay a little more tax in a stable, successful & functional economy than little or no taxes in an economic disaster
If you really can't 'get' that then try Iraq or the Sudan for a year, I hear the tax rate is very competitive!
Labour is trying but doesn’t know how to stop a new boom/bust happening
- There's no such thing as the completely controllable mixed economy (which the British economy is - & always has been post-war).
But compared to all their post-war predecessors this Labour Gov has done a remarkable job in keeping the economy stable & even expanding (to trend and
sometimes above trend too).
Labour can’t hold its promises to the electorate unless it continues to tax at these rates whilst allowing the housing market to run out of
Your basic premise here that Labour is taxing at a historically high rate is simply wrong.
.....& 'they' are not "allowing the h/market to run out of control
", haven't you noticed the recent rises in interest rates
(which btw has happened before under this Gov & it did work in moderating the market)
Labour is deliberately engineering the situation
- Well once again we come back to it......what?
What policies, Acts & Laws have they been enacting that are going to do this?
I'm all ears, really.
to strangle the people who consider themselves middle class but are actually well-paid working class
- How are the Gov going to "strangle" people? By doing what, exactly?
with the ulterior motive of reducing the personal debt of the populace by forcing it from them through financial disaster
- What "financial disaster"?
with the added effect that they cannot borrow for a number of years.
- Are you now trying to claim that if people who have borrowed too much & find themselves unable to borrow even more then it's the Gov's fault!?
Talk about wanting it both ways, again.
The bonus on their part is that they then have the ability to exert more control over those forced into council housing.
- Meaning what exactly?
First of all we already have been through how council housing is no longer there to take people in the 'crash numbers' you seem determined to
imagine.....whether private or public the UK has a housing shortage.
What is your conclusion on the current housing market, other than politically biased rantings about the failings of a party which has not been
in office for ten years?
- My conclusion is that we have some serious problems (as I have clearly already said).
The reason why we are where we are is perfectly relevant & pointing the finger at the tory party for what they did (especially when the instincts in
this remain unchanged) seems perfectly fair comment to me.
However a long complaining & biased rant about the present Labour Gov (whose record here is excellent when compared) with deluded notions of people
"under more control" doesn't seem to me to be much of a serious analysis.
Although I can now see why you’re arguing this case against my theory so fervently…
- Sadly I don't think you can really.
Is that perhaps deliberate?
- Excuse me?
Is it deliberate that I should look to EU economies where housing inflation is much much lower than in the UK and, seeing that price stability as a
good thing, wish to take what lessons we can & see it achieved here?
What do you think, huh?
So we can be more like the socialists of some European countries?
- You see it's when you start this ridiculous 'playing both ends against the middle' that it become patently obvious that you are either deeply
confused, don't know the subject or are plain trolling.
BTW despite the name-calling of some ignorant people in the UK (& US) media Europe doesn't have any 'socialist' economies either
(with the possible exception of Sweden.....& even that's highly debatable).
There isn't a single EU economy with state activity over 50% of all economic activity (which is the actual definition).
The state share of economic activity across the EU has been reducing for decades, actually.
You blame the workings of a private housing market on this Labour Gov & yet you accuse any attempt by them to moderate the clear & harmful excesses of
that free market as 'socialist control' & attempts to "take more control"
(whatever that is actually supposed to mean)
& all despite being utterly unable to point to any actual "far left" practical actions by the Gov.
Why is house price inflation the 1 type of inflation this Labour Gov isn't allowed to fight, because you see signs of scary "far left"
'socialism' & attempt at "control"
(even tho tory Govs, including Thatcher's, have at times over the years done the exact same thing)?
[edit on 7-1-2007 by sminkeypinkey]