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Forget about the proof that its real, show us the proof that it's a hoax!

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posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 01:37 PM
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People, mainly people who want to be UFO-oligists, when there are things out there like the Roswell event, most people ask, "Prove that it's real!", and the answers are usually, "See this picture (it's just a blurry disc-shaped thing in a sky)? It's real! There's proof!!", and the responce, "No, it's fake!". It does not get any where ***ya know what I sayin'???***.

So, instead of asking if it real, say, "Prove it's a hoax!" because it eliminates all the stuff that makes it possible, getting us closer to prove it's real, if it is.

So, take my advice.

Please.

Okay, I'm getting tired of the whole pressing enter...

AUGH!




posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 03:31 PM
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Many, many many UFO hoaxes have been revealed already.

Skeptics have proven their points, its the believers turn to prove theirs.



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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Actually the way I understand it, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim.

I wasn't always a skeptic. But the plethora of hoaxes that I have seen have slowly turned me into one.



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 03:53 PM
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I've never understood that line of reasoning. Everything in the known world can be replicated or faked. I could buy a fake spider at the 99 cent store, but that doesn't mean all spiders are fake and that spiders don't exist.

As with ufo photos, those can also be easily faked with photoshop, but I can also fake a photo of anything.



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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all we need is a little faith and little things add up big.



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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I agree with Mechanic 32.
If you make a claim, burden of proof falls on you.
I have every right to ask for proof.
Why, you ask ? Why should I not prove it false ?
Not my experience. YOU claimed it. Publicly. In a free forum.
You prove it. I have no ability to disprove something that has not happened to me.
I'm seeing recurring threads here that have people stating "x" is real, true and happening.
Again, I say "prove it".
You opened the court, ball is yours. You've been served.

Lex



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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Sure, but that isn't always true, you know.



posted on Dec, 30 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Freezer
I've never understood that line of reasoning. Everything in the known world can be replicated or faked. I could buy a fake spider at the 99 cent store, but that doesn't mean all spiders are fake and that spiders don't exist.

As with ufo photos, those can also be easily faked with photoshop, but I can also fake a photo of anything.


I agree with you! I will also say that aside from a few sick/bored people that need a cheap laugh, the majority of the hoaxes are planned and executed by disinformation agents whose sole purpose is to misinform the public and discredit the ufologists!



Originally posted by Lexion
I agree with Mechanic 32.
If you make a claim, burden of proof falls on you.
I have every right to ask for proof.
Why, you ask ? Why should I not prove it false ?
Not my experience. YOU claimed it. Publicly. In a free forum.
You prove it. I have no ability to disprove something that has not happened to me.
I'm seeing recurring threads here that have people stating "x" is real, true and happening.
Again, I say "prove it".
You opened the court, ball is yours. You've been served.

Lex


If you are absolutely sure that ufos and aliens DON'T EXIST and/or are NOT CURRENTLY HERE then why do you bother reading and posting in this board?


P.S. It is VERY EASY to distinguish debunker agents from true skeptics. Their negative-aggressive "you prove it" attitude speaks volumes!


[edit on 30/12/06 by SkepticGreek74]



posted on Dec, 30 2006 @ 06:05 PM
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Wow. Now, I'm a "debunker agent". Do I get a nifty badge ?
Look, I want to believe. I really do. I've been to Groom on vacation,
just to see if I could see anything cool flying.

My point is, it's too easy to make statements without any backing proof.
All I'm seeking is proof. Simple.

As I've said, the burden lies with the person making the claim. Not me.

Lex



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 04:52 AM
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Whoa whoa whoa. Stop right there. Why does he get to be a debunker agent and not me? I'm more of a skeptic than he is!!!

I AM THE ONE WHO DESERVES THAT NIFTY BADGE. NOT HIM, ME.

Everything the above posts says is true. It's only common sense. Things are easily faked and skeptics have already proven their points through logical and sensible means. Also, they have been able to authentically replicate such arguements.

Try proving something dealing with aliens that doesn't involve 'using your mind and visualizing the alien' or 'my spiritual guidemaster shamanpaladin powers help me communicate with aliens.'

It's so silly to back up an arguement with that. Full of beans.

[edit on 31-12-2006 by CidCaldensfey]



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by Lexion
If you make a claim, burden of proof falls on you.


O.k. take a deep breath and then realize that "proof" is only "evidence that compels the acceptance of a fact".

Nothing is accepted as fact until everyone looks at it and agrees so even asking someone to "give you proof" is oxymoronic.


Originally posted by Lexion
I have every right to ask for proof.


Agreed , from the Scientific Community after the evidence in total has been examined. But not to ask for "proof" from individuals in oxymoronic fashion as individuals can not agree on the "evidence" for the "Scientific peers" therefore individuals could never provide "proof" only "evidence".



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Ok. If you want to get very technical then i will also say that I am not a 100% believer. Until I see a ufo with my own eyes or until there is full disclosure by the majority of the world governments then I will continue to have some doubt. But what difference is there if one is 100% sure or 90%? There are so many incidents wolrdwide that discrediting the believers is not a real option. Simple logic says that all these thousands of people cannot all be crazy or hallucinating!

How can anyone provide absolute proof of any incident when people are aready convinced that ufos/aliens/other dimensions don't exist? There is plenty of evidence available to disprove the status quota! Just look at some of the classic incidents such as Roswell and Shag Harbor. There were many witnesses including high ranking military and government officials. True some of them later changed their story but that only helps to fuel the cover-up suspicions that we already had.

Do you see my point Lexicon? I am sorry if it seems like I am picking you out but that was not my intention. I am starting to get sick of people that always require proof without really doing any research of their own. Ok, maybe there are a lot of hoaxes but does that mean we should not believe? I think not! Besides, even when people are shown videos or pictures they jump to the conclusion that it is FAKE! So whats the point of even trying to prove anything? Not to mention that you also run the risk of being harrased or even killed by the government if you somehow manage to get your hands on some really sensitive information and try to make it public.

People please think more and do more research before jumping to immature conclusions. We will all be better off and our conversations will be more appropriate/enjoyable!

Thanks and a happy 2007 for everyone!



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 05:53 PM
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I have had my own experiences and captured photographs, which by the way weren't photoshopped, one in particular is on film and is in the negative.

Point being, sometimes it is easy to dismiss the proof as a hoax rather than to analyse it and compare it to known hoaxes.

I have observed a lot of hoaxes online, which doesn't bother me, as it helps me train my eye to spotting genuine phenomena.

As I said, I have had my own experiences and have submitted proof online through forums and my website. Even my husband, a profound sceptic photographed a ufo. You know what he said it was,' A crack on the windscreen of the vehicle.' Strange, considering he was standing outside the vehicle when he took the photo.

Again, it is far easier to dismiss something as a hoax then to accept the possibility that it is genuine, even remotely.



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 07:32 PM
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Proof is like truth and beauty.
In the eye of the beholder.

That would explain why I always feel I have something in my eye.



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Freezer
I've never understood that line of reasoning. Everything in the known world can be replicated or faked. I could buy a fake spider at the 99 cent store, but that doesn't mean all spiders are fake and that spiders don't exist.

As with ufo photos, those can also be easily faked with photoshop, but I can also fake a photo of anything.


Yes but I can show you a real spider. Science can study a real spider.



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 12:53 AM
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Honestly I couldn't care less about people claiming they're hoaxes.


It really one of those things you have to see to believe!



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by FlameForever
Honestly I couldn't care less about people claiming they're hoaxes.


Well there certainly are people that 'hoax' pictures and video's and even lie about sightings. These like other prosaic causes for UFO reports must be filtered out in order for "us" to understand the REAL phenomena.

It would be so much easier for everyone if people would stop 'hoaxing' and 'lying' , but guess what? ...




Originally posted by FlameForever

It really one of those things you have to see to believe!


Here I'd say reading or hearing about something is "believing", and "seeing" something is more akin to "knowing".



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 01:37 AM
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Well, simply, because without proof it wouldn't make sense to believe in it. If I tell you that pigs fly backwards, it doesn't make sense unless it's proven that it's true, not proven that it's false.

There's always a gray area, and idiots always make that mistake. There's more to thinking than believing and not believing, there's a place in logic where something is possible but not necessarily true.



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
there's a place in logic where something is possible but not necessarily true.


That logic is Not true, but the quoted statement is true to the consistency of the logic that was presented in the above quote. Everything is possible and Everything is true, thus Everything is possible and true including Everything and anything Being Not possible and Not true. It's a matter of choice and perception

[edit on 1-1-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
Well, simply, because without proof it wouldn't make sense to believe in it. If I tell you that pigs fly backwards, it doesn't make sense unless it's proven that it's true, not proven that it's false.

There's always a gray area, and idiots always make that mistake.


Imagination is proof. We live on a planet that We have named Earth, this planet flies, orbits, revolves, or what have you, around a star that We have named Sun. Pigs are on this flying planet. Now, pigs fly. The question is relativity, is the planet going backwards or forwards? That depends on what perspective is chosen. It is true, pigs do fly.

There's a gray area and all idiots accept this gray area. This gray area is a mixture of two extremes, two complete opposites. To accept this grey area is to Be very open minded and to allow to Be shown Both sides of the Existential topic.

In consummation, an obvious statement to Be seen is that the Being referring to the Being as an idiot must Not see Existence is connected... the Being is actually calling itself an idiot. Thus We are all idiots, but that will Be taken as a compliment because We truly Are Everything.

In closing: it's nice to know that pigs fly, whether backwards or frontwards is relative perception, choice, and opinion, as is pigs flying... as is Existence.

p.s. wings were never mentioned

[edit on 1-1-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



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