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How did God come into existence?

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posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by agentofchaos
 


Honestly, there are two major things that I have issue with in that theory.

1) How is a consciousness created? How does it begin to manipulate the energy? It seems to me like there is no logical way to answer these questions and others like them using standard logic and science.

2) I am highly resistant to any thought that claims to put us as being a part of God or gods ourselves. Satanism is summed up in "Be your own god" or just do whatever you want. These types of thoughts lead to very selfish and proud worldviews and attitudes.

Just my opinion on that one though, obviously I would disagree with it due to my own monotheistic (specifically Christian) beliefs.


have a deep read of "wayaboveitall's" excellent post. i starred him.

on your 2nd point, over the years i have found christians to be averse to this concept. some appear to be so troubled with that claim they appear ready to jump sideways lest they be scorched by the expected lightening bolt during discussion. LOL.

but just imagine, if you are separate from god, then that is an area and apparently free willed entity where god is not. therefore he is limited and not almighty after all. an impossible concept.

i believe it was jesus who said "you must overcome as i have overcome"; and "i and my father are one". so let us not limit ourselves.

if we exercise our highest "god given" mental faculty of discrimination, we must conclude that god alone is, and all else is divided by mind and illusion.
i use the term "god" for the inconceivable source of all.




posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 06:44 PM
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"wayaboveitall's" is probably one of the closest to understanding, I have seen regarding these subjects.

I also gave him a star...



posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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Yall are missing the entire bottom line here - we are human with human minds. We cannot fathom how God operates or His ideas or plans.

Given our human minds, we are incapable of grasping any notion outside of our (a human) time frame - we can't understand how something did not have a beginning. I.e. a clock is manufactured, a person is born, a car is manufactured, a cake begins with flour and a bowl, etc.

When I was little, I would ask my Mom how God came to be - she said He was like a circle - no beginning, no end. Being human, I couldn't, and still can't, grasp that whole idea - because I'm a human with a human mind.

Contrary to what we would like, we, as humans, don't know it all.




posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by orangutang
 


I'll see about reading that post you mentioned.

God is not a part of us not because He can't be but because He chooses not to be. That is not a limitation and so He can still be almighty.

He is a part of us in the sense that He has given those of us who fear and worship Him the Holy Spirit to dwell within them.



posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 01:27 AM
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I think that this is it. This is all we get. Our purpose of life is merely to make our own lives have purpose. Before you are born there is nothing, you are just non-existent. You have life given to you by your parents (if anything they are the god that created you) then you live and learn and grow. Eventually the body gives out and you are back to non-existance. That's it. We have all already experienced death. It is what we experienced (or didn't experience) before birth.

My thoughts at least


Oh and this is my first post ever. I love this site and have finally joined. I look forward to becoming a contributing part of your community.

[edit on 18-3-2010 by IllMannered]



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by ChrisJr03
 
God is eternal, he had no beginning. God is outside of time, in fact, God created the concept of time. if God had a beginning, then that would mean something more intelligent than Himself made him. Then you'd have to have another being that made that one and so on and so on. If God had a beginning, he wouldn't be worth worshiping that's for sure.

So basically, the answer is God had no beginning, He has always existed, and always will.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:10 AM
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Yeah I agree. I think some things are simply beyond human comprehension. I believe god has always existed and always will! Maybe, if we're lucky enough, he'll tell us how he came about when we make it to the afterlife.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:55 AM
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Want Proof of Stupid Humans...
Major proof is in this thread.

So many just pull a god theory from their rear ends with ZERO proof.
So hell bent on a god that they will not admit they don't have a freaking clue, let alone one fact beyond what their parents believe.

Most people that think they have it all figured out...don't know squat.
They are so arrogant that they can not admit that they do not know.
They are agnostic, and don't know it.

We know only one thing about the current state of the universe, and that is that the universe is expanding.

There is no human capable of answering the OP's question.
Any response to the original post is just humans showing their arrogant asses.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 10:40 AM
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Could this be about "scale" ? We know an atom is miniscule and the earth is
massive compared against ourselves as humans. This means that what seems big to us could seem tiny to somebody else if they were, lets say a Giant.

So from this we could say that God is another word for Creator or superior entity. Let us say then that the universe to him could fit in his pocket or the palm of his hand and maybe it is something he threw together like a scientist would in a lab as an experiment. We to him under his powerful microscope could be similar to atoms in size or even much smaller, somewhat like a nanotechnology looks like to us. Anyway hopefully you get the idea of where I am going with this, SCALE matters. Hell maybe were are just germs to him/her/? like a virus, fighting to win or lose or own illness.

I dont pretend to be a scientist or the like and really find the best
arguements concerning the unknown are the ones that use simple logic as a way of understanding them. The formula of K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid) always seems to be the best system to use. I have found two things that always seem to be most relevant to me as an individual when I observe the thing we call existence. They are Scale and Perspective. When I try to understand something that is complicated I try to scale it down to something smaller to make it easier to comprehend, just like scale models are very useful in testing out ideas and seeing how they will perform. Then perspective helps me look at the problems from different positions so I can see how and if they will fit together as pieces of the puzzle.
Thanks to the OP for this thread, when I looked at it I thought it might not
be that interesting but upon reading through it has prompted me to think more about the topic which has been good for me. Great forum this is for such reasons.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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More importantly, does God pay taxes and how does he feel about HCR?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by darkelf
If God could create the universe, the He must be an infinite being. We cannot understand the infinite as our own understanding is finite. He could have told us these things, but it would be like trying to teach quantum physics to the average two year old.

However, if you don't believe in God, you could always say that he was "made up."


Best reply yet. that was kick alsome



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 01:27 AM
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The Acts of The Apostles chapter 17 verses 22 to 32. Quote;



22.
Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said ,

“Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things
ye are too Superstitious.

23.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions,
I found an altar with this Inscription,
TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
Whom therefore ye Ignorantly worship,
Him I declare unto you.

24.
God that made the World and all things therein,
seeing that He is Lord of Heaven and Earth,
dwelleth Not in Temples made with hands;

25.
Neither is worshipped with men’s hands,
as though He needs anything, seeing He giveth to All LIFE,
and breath, and ALL things;

26.
And hath made of one blood All nations of men
For to dwell All the face of the Earth,
And hath determined the times before appointed,
And the bounds of their habitation;

27.
That they should seek the Lord,
If haply (by chance) they might feel after Him,
and find Him, though He be Not far from everyone of us:

28.
For in Him we Live and move, and have our being;
as certain also of your own poets have said,
for we are also His Offspring.

29.
Forasmuch then as we are the Off Spring of God,
we ought Not to think the Godhead is like unto gold,
or silver, or stone, graven by art or man’s device.

30.
And the times of this Ignorance God winked at;
but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent:

31.
Because He hath appointed a day,
in which He will judge the World in righteousness
by that man He hath ordained;
wherefore He hath given assurance unto All men,
in that He hath raised Him from the dead.

32.
And when they heard of the Resurrection of the dead,
Some mocked: and other said,
“We will hear thee again of this matter.


Note; it is written we are the Off Spring of God....

[edit on 18-4-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by ChrisJr03
Many of us on these threads debate how the universe and how it was made. I'm just curious though, if God (The Creator) made the universe, how did God come into existence. I'm not sure if anyone has asked this yet, but I just decided to throw it out there, please give me your thoughts, whether you believe God created the universe or not; I am interested in knowing what you think.


to me it seems your question defeats itself. i would define god as all powerful and omipresent (this includes space, time, and "pretime") so you're asking "when did an all powerful being that has always existed and is everywhere, come to be?"



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 06:23 AM
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Time is a Phenomenon that has been Created...

Or it wouldn't exist.

It is a Human interpretation of "The Rate of Change in things"

When 2 Conditions are Compared....

But it is Always NOW...

Its a bit like a CD where the Beginning, In-between and End exist on the Same Disc but when introduced to a "CD Player", it is then, that the Illusion of Time is presented.

But the Beginning, In-between and End, exist together in the NOW on the CD...

Perhaps this is Why we call Now "The Present" spelt the same as the Gift ?



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 07:03 AM
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"Now, all good men are tasked to exhalt God the Almighty as The Undifferentiated Power before all things. In that place without age or location, nor substance or measure, neither wet nor dry, neither earth, nor air, nor fire, nor light, nor darkness, God being before all things, in entirety as existence without definition may be described in absolute terms Omnia et Nihil. God was in essence and presence as The All without further discretion, or context, or comparison, that no constraint of measure, or age, or any other quality or quantity known to man may be applied and said to be relevant. For the understanding of man, we may term the nature of this state of being as ignorabimus as it is beyond all knowledge of the created.

We may conjecture The All as one of sublime paradox for the understanding of man, that each part may be termed the whole, that each moment may be termed as the ever, that light was as dark and dark as light, that high was as low, wide was as narrow, deep was as shallow. We may define no aspect in this existence as pertinent to the state of being but as nihilation without contradiction. So as each moment may be said to be the ever, so came the ordination de novo that we may now know as creation which may be shewn to have always been for that event without ante hoc or post hoc within the state of being of The All existed as a happening at coincidence with all other happenings that may be said to be, as everything and so as nothing and this may be known as The Idea. That the moment of creation did occur is only as known to man but as God may ever be described as omnipotent so creation has always occurred and was ever to occur."

[edit on 23-4-2010 by SugarCube]



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 07:51 AM
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Conciousness had to come from somewhere, it is here now, so it must have been always, God is the wrong concept. Conciousness on some quantum level put into motoin all that is today. To understand the reason it is. Simple.



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by SugarCube
 


Excellent Post....

Can't get much closer than this in understanding…. and can't say God came into being, as to say such an event occurred, implies that Time would have existed before God, which suggests that God came from something.

But as Time is a Created Phenomenon God did NOT COME from Anything, as The PARADOXICAL Algorithm has NO BEGINNING or END, and is exclusive of Time.

In other Words the PARADOXICAL ALGORITH INZ Produced Time through Comparing the Letters (In a Stack) and Understanding the Expression of Change (i.e. The Communication of Concept).

But Consciousness is the ROOT of the PARADOX as this involves the Comparing of Something.

AWARENES had to exist or the Paradox could NOT be Created.

Something Can only be Created, if Conscious of its Own existence. And as Time never existed, but has since been Created, There can be NO BEGINNING or END as perceived by Human interpretation.

So we Can't think in terms of Dimension, or any other such Human interpretation, but can only be AWARE of The ONE True Mind.... (This MIND has Nothing at all to do with the Brain, as the Brain is only a decoder or translator that produces the Illusion of something that is Organised, yet having No shape or Size.)

The Illusion of this Little Universe has been Created and is being Created via a story or WORD i.e. Strings of Letters or Program involving Concepts in story form....

But there is a Geometric Story of God discovering Himself and on such an Organized structure, involving Concepts came about before any Universe or World came into being.

It is upon these Concepts, that the Experience was/is Manifested and Experienced.

a. The observed and....
b. The Observer.

And in Reality Nothing at all is really material….But instead interpreted as being Material only because we do knot know all the Rules involving the Structure of these Concepts and by the Governing Principals in such Conceptual Constructs or the complete Structure itself….

This is Why God is said to have two Parts that form a Third and different Component.

a. The WORD (Made from a string of Letters or Glyphs)
b. The LIFE of God (a Story that can be seen by MAN… That Story being told through LIGHT)

To understand this we must first come to understand the LIGHT, and Not as it is understood by humankind at present.

But Light is formed by a Communication Stack, involving the WORD in the first Place…

So this is why The WORD has Always Been… Time is a subject of a Story only and has been Created...

[edit on 23-4-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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What a pile of nonsense.

The probability and evidence that the universe was created by:

- God

Is exactly the same as if the universe was created by:

- Colin the giant immortal intergalactic lobster

God is a creation of man, an idea not a reality.

Anyway, can't stop, it's prayer night in the Holy Church of the Crustacean. Catch you later!



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by mithrawept
What a pile of nonsense.

The probability and evidence that the universe was created by:

- God

Is exactly the same as if the universe was created by:

- Colin the giant immortal intergalactic lobster

God is a creation of man, an idea not a reality.

Anyway, can't stop, it's prayer night in the Holy Church of the Crustacean. Catch you later!


the complexity of the universe, and the big bang happening a finite time ago, morality (where does the concept of right vs. wrong come from? what makes one thing right, and another wrong?).

no evidence?

also, your argument is self defeating. no one declared what/who "god" was. we aren't debating christianity vs. Colin the giant immortal intergalactic lobster, we're debating whether there is a god, or not.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Bob Sholtz]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by wayaboveitall
 


And I guess the next obvious question would be the Chicken-egg question concerning this consciousness that begets God-as-manifestation-of-its-ongoing-expansion. Consciousness is a fully realized and sophisticated development. Isn't there a process of achieving that state of development, or is it all just magic (or even worse, simply unknowable).

There was either a chicken or an egg. Sorry, but for organization to exist, there must be an existing foundational sub-structure. The fact that you can even consider the notion of consciousness is hard proof that both informational and causal organization exists and is in absolute control of reality. The question becomes, what are the primitive units composed of and what is the nature of the existential imperatives that compel these units to act in congress as they do.

God is so far down the development chain that discussing Creation and God in the same thesis is ludicrous. If God exists, then it is an epitome expression, and not an author of existential genesis. Seriously. Isn't it obvious to that degree at least?

[edit on 24-4-2010 by NorEaster]







 
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