i was absolutely disgusted....

....to find out that in some peoples culture, women are so less valued than men that if they are raped, it is actually blamed on her! also, she isnt allowed to have an abortion cos this is seen as taking a life. im no strong feminist,whatever, but surely this shouldnt be the case.
i cant remember where i heard this, ill try and find out...

Though C of E myself.I think the abortion issue is slightly different.It's even different in countries that are Pro-Choice.ie dates at which termination can legally take place.

Personally I find the issue of Female circumcision one of the most abhorant practices.Find out more at:

www.religioustolerance.org...

Kim, that would be some of the Moslem countries. Stoning and punishment for adultery is common... for women. The men often go off scott free because everyone believes them when they said "I didn't do it."

Actually, women being poorly valued is prevalent everywhere. Here in America, when a woman ends up in a high office, the first thing that happens is the Establishment starts making jokes about her/of her -- unless she's the sort who sits around and has nice little tea parties and stays out of the affairs of men.

To just say all womens rights issues are contravened in muslim countries would be misleading.The Hindu practice of putting the wife of the deceased on the funeral pyre of her husband is but one other example.

There are some crazy laws out there, especially that one JB mentioned. And how many times have we read about a women being raped and the women being the criminal. Between Africa and the ME there are some heinous rules. The abortion thing is a different story. There was an �honor-killing� in my area not to long ago involving some folks from the ME.

Byrd, women should just know their role! (That�s a joke) I know what you mean though. However women in the west and especially in America have greater opportunity than anywhere else. The president of the company I work for is female and we probably wouldn�t have lasted through these last few years w/ out her - what a women!




[Edited on 26-11-2002 by Bob88]

It's only when men stop and listen to women that they realise how valuable they are.
It's no coincidence that the countries that listen to their women are the most prosperous.
Mind you Maggie Thatcher made me think for a while that when women gain some power they tend to become more masculine than men.Dick compensation.
I know I shouldn't say that because I'm sure TC has a Maggie pin up.

yes kim that is sick. But the fact about abortion taking another life is true. Abortion is a sin. I think that it should be illegal, they are taking life away.

As a matter of fact, I do, John, and it is not for sell. I'm proud to say that it is a fully clothed poster, however!

its part of their culture. to them its perfectly all right, even though its disgusting to us.

point of order: who is to say that our western culture is better than theirs?

i know your first reaction will be a moral backlash at that statement, but seriously, sit down and think about it a while. who are we to say that we are better than anyone else? we say our rules our better than theirs, but of course we would, else we'd be using theirs. cultural differences are high on the agenda nowadays. particular with the 'war on terror' raging around us...

- qo.

"....to find out that in some peoples culture, women are so less valued than men that if they are raped, it is actually blamed on her! "


wow.
sounds like britain.....america......france.......

not really Lupe.
there are laws about rape in those countries- if the man is to blame, he goes to prison- like he should. but in some cultures they dont have that. they wont even acknowledge that the woman is the victim. and then there's the much uptight laws about abortion/adoption in those countries.

"if the man is to blame, he goes to prison- like he should"

I.......see.......
so what your saying is that in this country if a man rapes or beats up a woman he is breaking the law and will go to jail and that our culture unlike those evil middle eastern ones doesn't for example have hundreds and hundreds of women living in abusive marriages being beaten up and raped by their husbands........
or for example told that they deserved to be raped because they really shouldn't wear short skirts at night.....

gosh, well here I was thinking that I lived in a prevelantly mysogenistic culture that actively encourages women not to consider themselves as victims when instances such as this occur for fear of reprisal, and social isolation when in fact everythings peachy.

I can sleep easy tonight.
thanks for putting me straight.

Actually, Kim, Lupe does have a point.

The laws have changed in the past 30 years, but it used to be that if a woman prosecuted a man for rape, the man's attorney would find out how many other men she'd slept with and would point out features about her clothing that were "suggestive" -- and basically tell the jury (or judge) that the woman was little better than a prostitute, luring poor susceptable men to sex.

Rape kits and training of medical staff have fortunately managed to make it easier, but there's still the stigma of "well, guys are SUPPOSED to go out and have sex" and "if she didn't beat him off with her hands, it was consensual."

Women being raped by husbands is real and unpleasant and is still being done.

Let's face it -- every nation in the world needs to have its citizens learn to treat other people with respect and dignity. I have seen progress in the past 30 years, though, and that's a cheerful thing.

spose so, but what about the women who don't 'dress suggestively'? its these that im on about.
i agree bout the husband/wife scenario though- nasty, real nasty.

This all boils down to in the end to ignorance and lack of education. Anyone agree ?

tut, fair 'nough

Just want to add to something Byrd has written about the womans sexual history being disclosed at trial.
Recently the law was changed in Scotland so that if the lawyer for a rape defendent disclosed the sexual history of the victim the prosecution could in turn reveal the criminal record of the defendent.
Basically,If you are sitting on a jury and the defendent declines to question the victim on her sexual history.You can be fairly sure he has something to hide.
My mother was on a jury where a man was accused of exposing himself.The jury were split on whether to convict him.but by 2 to 10 decided to.Only afterwards did they find out that he had already been convicted 3 times on similar charges.One lady who had defended him in the juryroom broke down in tears when she realised that he had been guilty and that she had wanted to free him.

Yes, it seems ridiculous that a defendants past criminal history can't be exposed. A persons history relates directly to who they are and where they're going.