i wont be able to make this one either.. thanks for the heads up though

Ape,

There is a rally on the Fair Tax here at North Myrtle Beach on April 17th I plan on attending...

I will get some photos while I am there and post them so that all can see the support we are generating....

We really do need to keep this alive...

Thank you for reminding us...

Semper

right on man.

fairtax is really gaining momentum in california.

Forgive me if this has been asked or answered already, but doesn't FairTax include a monthly rebate from the federal government?

Yes,

Based on your the number of individuals in your household I believe...

It is to compensate for the "Necessities" of life...

Ape, or Semperfoo would know the specifics better than me, but I think that is the meat of it..

Semper

So isn't that effectively putting the entire nation on welfare, dependent on the government? And don't you need to pay more and give the government more power to regulate and implement that?

Originally posted by Johnmike
So isn't that effectively putting the entire nation on welfare, dependent on the government? And don't you need to pay more and give the government more power to regulate and implement that?

Will the fairtax make prices higher then they are now? No. Why? Because the costs of complying with our current tax system adds 20 to 30 percent to the costs of goods and services that we purchase now. The average is 22 percent. When the FairTax passes these hidden costs will go away. Competition will force prices down. When the FairTax (which is 23%) is added on, total prices will be about the same as they are now. But workers will be taking home their gross pay and receive a monthly rebate. The rebate is intended to pay for the FairTax on purchases up to the poverty level. In other words the poor will pay ZERO federal taxes except for excise taxes. If they buy used items they will pay no FairTax on those items they purchase. Its important that we repeal the 16th amendment as well. As for the government, It will make the government more transparent. And no more IRS!

I suggest reading throughout the thread. Most of your questions have already been answered.

What I feel uncomfortable about is the whole "the government is going to mail you a check every month." I'm not sure that I trust them with my money, nor do I want to be reliant on the government. What if I want to disappear? It just looks like a way to make even more people dependent on Uncle Sam...

Originally posted by Johnmike
What I feel uncomfortable about is the whole "the government is going to mail you a check every month." I'm not sure that I trust them with my money, nor do I want to be reliant on the government. What if I want to disappear? It just looks like a way to make even more people dependent on Uncle Sam...

you have to understand that the fairtax bill does not mandate the government issue the prebates and only the government. right to the point the government gives back about a trillion a year under our current tax system, with the fairtax they would only be rebating half of that.

secondly that is your money you're getting back for paying taxes on food and water etc, it's not someone elses money or the governments. if you decide to dissapear well then you can, you have to reregister yearly for the rebate and if you dont you stop getting payments, so dissapear accordingly. I would also like to note that alot of people will decide to keep their name out of the system... therefore not registering for the rebate. criminals come to mind.. so do illegal aliens ( who prolly wouldn't risk it anyways, bite the bullet and pay taxes ). to sum things up you have to register yearly for the rebate, fail to do this and you pay taxes on necessities without compensation.

thirdly AFFT has been contacted by private industry businesses (capitalism at work) that are willing to PAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for the privlidge to process the rebate~ this would not only reduce the federal government function but increase the revenue to the federal government. the fairtax bill includes the prebate but does not mandate that it must be handled by government.

the businesses were credit card issuers. they have the systems in place to issue a card and automatically credit the card with the monthly prebate. If the individual decides to place purchases on the card over and above the prebate amount, then the credit card issurer can charge interest. this is where they will recoup their expenses and make a profit.

we also have a power transfer considering transparent taxation ( we see the sales tax % on every receipt we get ), the choice aspect ) used goods are not taxed ).

[edit on 9-4-2007 by ape]

[edit on 9-4-2007 by ape]

[edit on 9-4-2007 by ape]

Originally posted by ape
secondly that is your money you're getting back for paying taxes on food and water etc, it's not someone elses money or the governments. if you decide to dissapear well then you can, you have to reregister yearly for the rebate and if you dont you stop getting payments, so dissapear accordingly. I would also like to note that alot of people will decide to keep their name out of the system... therefore not registering for the rebate. criminals come to mind.. so do illegal aliens ( who prolly wouldn't risk it anyways, bite the bullet and pay taxes ).

I really don't want to have to register to get MY money. I want to keep it from the beginning.

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by ape
secondly that is your money you're getting back for paying taxes on food and water etc, it's not someone elses money or the governments. if you decide to dissapear well then you can, you have to reregister yearly for the rebate and if you dont you stop getting payments, so dissapear accordingly. I would also like to note that alot of people will decide to keep their name out of the system... therefore not registering for the rebate. criminals come to mind.. so do illegal aliens ( who prolly wouldn't risk it anyways, bite the bullet and pay taxes ).

I really don't want to have to register to get MY money. I want to keep it from the beginning.

do you work in this country? I have to do my taxes if I want my rebate for going along with the income tax system. THATS MY MONEY I earned it yet im subject to withholding. right now the government gets paid before me through my paycheck and i'm the one who did the work. I thought you were serious in this discussion, save the weak arguments for another thread please. or hey how about you grow a garden and go hunting? then you can keep your gross check and keep your name out of the system. no matter what the CHOICE is yours, right now I have no choice and will get imprisoned if I fail to report my income.

you can use this same argument with our current system guy, where is your outrage over withholding from your paycheck assuming you work ? what about payroll taxes? save the selective outrage because it will hold no weight on this thread. the fairtax is transparent taxation payed at the register rather than withholding from your income.

yeah, go hunting. hunting is good for the soul, so is growing tomatoes.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by ape]

Originally posted by ape
I have to do my taxes if I want my rebate for going along with the income tax system. THATS MY MONEY I earned it yet im subject to withholding. right now the government gets paid before me through my paycheck and i'm the one who did the work.

Correct. And I don't like that about the tax system, at all.

Originally posted by ape
I thought you were serious in this discussion, save the weak arguments for another thread please.

I'm not arguing, I'm explaining what I don't like about FairTax. I am not sorry for disagreeing with you, nor will I apologize for it.

Originally posted by ape
or hey how about you grow a garden and go hunting?

I don't see how hobbies will help us with the tax system.

Originally posted by ape
then you can keep your gross check and keep your name out of the system.

Oh, that's how! I'll be sure to tell the government that I went hunting a couple times and grew a garden. Then they'll let me keep my money!

Originally posted by ape
no matter what the CHOICE is yours, right now I have no choice and will get imprisoned if I fail to report my income.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by ape]

Apparently, since you you get imprisoned if you don't report your income, the choice isn't mine, nor is it yours.


Come on, ape. Sub-par.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by Johnmike]

Correct. And I don't like that about the tax system, at all.

you didn't answer my question, do you work in this country? because your criticism seems selective considering working men and women in this country are subject to massive amounts of taxes payed not only at the register through embedded taxation but through witholding.. I would much rather keep my gross earnings and pay my taxes at the register and get compensated for taxes payed on necessities rather than getting my ass kicked by the IRS for non compliance for not reporting my income. fact is if you dont want the rebate than dont register, keep your money and grow a garden and go hunting.. alot of people do that. dissapear if you want to, I dont know how your going to dissapear and hold down a job, you need to submit your information unless you work under the counter.

I'm not arguing, I'm explaining what I don't like about FairTax. I am not sorry for disagreeing with you, nor will I apologize for it.

nobody is asking for an apology, you obviously were forming an argument about keeping your money and not having to basically pay any taxes at all. look guy there is no free lunch in life ( unless you grow a garden and hunt, but even then bullets and seeds cost money) atleast admit the benefits of this bill rather than focusing on irellevant material such as compensation for consumption of basic necessities.

I don't see how hobbies will help us with the tax system.

hey you said you dont want your money to cycle through the system, well then go hunting and grow a garden.. that way you can keep your earnings and not have to deal with compensation. hey and while your at it you can go bargain shopping and buy a used car among other used items... do you understand all of the choices you have? of course nobody is going to do this or maybe certain a percent of our population who already is doing it will continue.

Oh, that's how! I'll be sure to tell the government that I went hunting a couple times and grew a garden. Then they'll let me keep my money!

yes, it's a consumption tax... if you dont consume you wont be paying taxes... grow a garden and go hunting.. alot of people do that right now.. nobody is going to hold a gun to your head for not buying groceries... your logic is becoming a bit annoying.

Apparently, since you you get imprisoned if you don't report your income, the choice isn't mine, nor is it yours.

you seem to not be comprehending.. right now UNDER OUR CURRENT SYSTEM I will get locked up if I dodge the feds, this will not happen under the fairtax considering my income is not subject to direct taxation from the government. I have no choice when it comes to taxation under our current system, under the fairtax I have plenty of choices... however I'm used to my current spending habits and I'm doing just fine under it, little will change under the fairtax for me with regards to spending I'm not much of a bargain shopper I like new toys and new stuff period... i will have more money thats a given and I will massivly invest into this economy and many others just like me will do the same... and I will blow all of that money when I reitre early.

something has to give though with our current system, the BB's will be collecting soon and thats going to be a huge issue not to mention medicare.

Come on, ape. Sub-par

what?


[edit on 9-4-2007 by ape]

atleast admit the benefits of this bill rather than focusing on irellevant material such as compensation for consumption of basic necessities.

compensation for taxes payed on basic necessities *

hey you said you dont want your money to cycle through the system, well then go hunting and grow a garden.. that way you can keep your earnings and not have to deal with compensation.

once again compensation for taxes payed on necessities. *

it's understandable that people might not like the rebate because of government beuacracy or whatever mistrust they might have with the feds etc.. however it's your responsibility to register and collect your money and if you dont well then thats your problem. no matter what under the fairtax the rebates issued will be 500 billion dollars less than whats issued back right now under the income tax and thats assuming every legal household in this country registers for the rebate.. 250 billion dollars a year is put back into the economy in the form of consumption or savings considering no more complying with the arcane income tax code which costs that much yearly. oh and to touch on it once again the fairtax bill does not mandate the government issues the rebates.. it can be handled by private businesses that have the systems already in place to issue the money.




[edit on 10-4-2007 by ape]

[edit on 10-4-2007 by ape]

Update - 62 cosponsors in 110th Congress (64 if you include the bill sponsors). This surpasses the 109th Congress that received 61 cosponsors.

nice.

I'll support it when they modify it so that we don't have to deal with that rebate mumbo jumbo.

Until then, I'm kind of undecided.

Originally posted by Johnmike
I'll support it when they modify it so that we don't have to deal with that rebate mumbo jumbo.

Until then, I'm kind of undecided.

the prebate is designed so the poor and middle class dont get severely impacted, different strokes for different folks in your case I guess.. keep in mind however our current system rebates about 1 trillion a year. under the fairtax that rebate will be about half of that.. assuming every legal household in this country registers, and that wont happen. all the while you are keeping your gross check and you have the feds out of your private finances, you see the sales tax % on every receipt you get if it's new products you're buying, transparent taxation coming out of washington which means more control over politicians ( if they tamper with the % it will be felt across the entire board and would be IMO a form of political suicide ). a broader tax base.. taxation of illegals and tourists, foreign and domestic investment on a scale we have never seen before, doubled GDP ( predicted ) in 10-15 years after installment.. abolishment of the IRS and the 16th, no more 65,000 page tax code, 300 billion ( new number ) put back into the economy through consumption or savings thats currently being spent complying with the federal tax code yearly ( in 2 years we spend more money complying with the federal tax code than we have spent on the iraq war since 2003. ).. 13 trillion currently offshore avoiding our tax system would come home.. oh yeah and used goods are not taxed and this billwipes out the special interests that infest washington and nukes K street, this bill is a direct threat to special interest tax lobbyists and they are very afraid, a big fight is on the horizon... have you read the university studies that have been conducted over the past decade about this non partisan bill?

in any case if you dont like the rebate then dont register for it, however you will be paying taxes on basic necessities.. IMO this bill is a step in the right direction.. and a chance to get away from a marxist system and a chance to put a muzzle and leash on our politicians.




[edit on 19-4-2007 by ape]