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posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 05:43 PM

by vagabond
It seems that a national sales tax in lieu of income tax and payroll taxes would discourage purchase, thus lowering demand and forcing prices down. This in turn would reduce sales tax revenue, as the tax is imposed as a percentage of price.

please highlight? as the fairtax does not drive up prices of consumer goods or services and if you actually read the information provided ( and has constantly been provided), read the links please about fairtax and the economy and educate yourself on the embedded taxes on all of our products right now.


your last argument was the presidents tax panel, which was already disproved and proven false, they changed BillHR25 to their own version, this is proven right here. you also used the presidents tax panel as ammunition against the fairtax after i provided the links to that have an ACCURATE response the misleading tax panel conclusion, yet you overlooked this why?

so please adress your current stance and how you have come to the conclusions you have? because the numbers dont add up and niether do the economics. there is no need to take this to the H2H forums because you can adress your case against the fairtax right here. no posturing please, only come with fact and proven research.

[edit on 25-1-2007 by ape]

posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 09:36 PM
Now I think that speaks to the heart of the Fair Tax...

The assumption that the Fair Tax would reduce spending and as a result create reduced tax revenue simply does not take into account the increased "Take Home" that each consumer would enjoy.

Common sense...

The more money the consumers have to spend, the more money they will spend. Or invest...

More money in the economy, equals a stronger economy....

That is why the Bush Tax cuts have created the single strongest economy in over 50 years...

When you introduce money into any system, the end result is increased revenue for everyone, including the Government. (By the way... National statistics indicate we are also experiencing the HIGHEST Federal Tax revenue in the history of the country)

The fair tax would be a boon for the economy on so many levels as well as a positive step toward the people gaining more control of their Government.




posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 11:48 PM
right on brother, represent the truth ~ t=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8

read up, and check all of the sources who back this information up. this is the future of our country vagabond i suggest getting on board instead of fighting it with misinformation.

[edit on 26-1-2007 by ape]


posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 10:28 AM

by semperfoo
Semperfortis, Yea man we touched up on that earlier. But just to echo it again, illegal aliens who get paid "under the table" will have to pay taxes because when they purchase goods at the checkout counter they are paying our taxes. The fairtax will also make americans more competitve with illegal aliens for jobs.

true, not only that illegal aliens are not legal US citizens so they cannot benefit from the prebate system, HAH NO PREBATE on consumption of necessitites. hopefully this among other things like competing with the work they do drives them out of the country. HAHAH fairtax has so many benefits it's mind boggling, I'm growing a hatred for democrats and republicans who dont support the fairtax on capitol hill.


posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 11:19 AM

Originally posted by dawnstar
one thing is for sure, it couldn't do much worse than what we have now.

a word about growth though....

cancers grow also ya know.

the area I am living in now is experiencing alot of growth. things are being built all over the place. bigger mansions are being built while the not so big mansions are being abandoned. nicer malls and storefronts are being built while others sit empty....we have one mall, ain't nothing terribly wrong with it, but there is nothing in it hardly, a fabric store and the!!!

what a waste of resources. face it, a community can only consume so many meals, so many hotel rooms, so many consumer many houses.
the rest sit unused, wasted. and unless we plan on turning our country over to foreigners through immigration, well, our population should be decreasing somewhat over the next half century or so, there will be less need for all this stuff. our children, and their children, just might decide that that nice new house that you are building now, should be torn down for a park, since there are twice as many houses as there is people to occupy them.

thats with our current system which punishes individual success, I think it says alot about our country and our economy compared to the rest of the world over the years considering all of us have the boot of the federal government on our throats.

alot of the stuff you say has no substance and no research or statisitcal research to back it up, all of us here have provided plenty of evidence of research done and what would happen to the economy. please provided proven research before making claims that have no substance.

[edit on 27-1-2007 by ape]

posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 06:07 PM
And lets not forget that the with the fairtax our economy would grow exponentially even if it only grew by 40%. Like it has been said before here, the the investment and growth in the stock market alone would resolve all of the issues with the major airlines and automobile manufacturers.

The fairtax is the only logical solution.

posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 04:08 PM
I would love to see something like the fair tax work, but my hard earned cynicism keeps me from believing that the congress critters would ever repeal the income tax, much less the 16th amendment.

Now putting a national sales tax on top of the income tax? That I can see happening.

I would much prefer a return to pre 16th amendment taxation and an accompanying reduction in the size and scope of government on all levels.


posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 06:11 PM
keep in mind resistor the politicicans who dont support this will be voted out, the people are being educated as we speak. people who campaigned on this issue won in the november elections, it will and should be a presidential platform. infact duncan hunter supports this, so does newt.

we just need to educate the people, I educate someone new everyday on the issue here in california. keep in mind that it would infact be a major battle to get this passed, alot in washington are in the pockets of lobbyiest, that army of lobbyiest wont go without a fight. K street does not run this country we do and we will show them.

for the fairtax to pass the people would have to be well enough educated about the bill, this means pressure on politicians and AFT will put pressure on them and so will the people, either follow through or create political suicide.

fairtax gives power back to the people, and makes our polticians work for us instead of creating a class warfare battle ground marxists wannabe society. they have to much power right now, the 16th amendment allows them to take 100% of my income if they wanted to, thats freaking slavery. they have used our current system as weaponry for to long.

i'm not being partisan but the liberals in power and the democrats along with the democratic presidential frontrunners all oppose this plan because it will take away the power of classwarfare they use, it will take away the power of hidden taxation and the leverage they druel over like dogs. this goes for the republicans aswell who had plenty of time to get this done. none of those fake basatrds represent us they only represent their personal interests.

posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 06:32 PM
Well played sir.....

Honestly the fairtax is what is best for the American ppl. Im responding to this in part to keep this thread alive. I noticed it was becoming more and more irrelevant by the day.

Heres a link pertaining the the fair tax.

I got two of my favorite calls this week. My former employer called me for the best address to send me my tax forms and my mom called to see how much money I had spent on books. Her question was followed with a reminder not to spend too much more or I wouldn't have money to pay my taxes. Implication: I may take season two of Walker Texas Ranger back this week. There weren't too many roundhouse kicks or Indian spirit moments anyway. After all, the government deserves my money more than Mr. Norris does.

If I were Chuck Norris, trained by Bruce Lee with the ability to form out of body experiences, I would probably leave my body and deliver a sound roundhouse to every lawmaker who helped make today's tax code. But even Walker would get tired, because our system is the result of thousands of lawmakers and lobbyists and decades of codification. Our archaic system employs thousands of people and costs billions of dollars in compliance fees. It would be great to return to the days of old when one tax lawyer with a pencil could be the accountant for all of Texas. Fortunately, we can.

The solution lies in H.R.25, the Fair Tax Act of 2005. H.R.25 calls for the repeal of individual income taxes, corporate income taxes, capital gains taxes, estate taxes, Social Security and Medicare taxes and others that are lesser known. The legislation replaces these taxes with a 23 percent sales tax levied on all retail purchases. 23 percent allows the government to collect the same amount of money it currently brings in while solving the problems of our current system.

Before I begin receiving hate mail to the tune of "Jake Vial hates poor people," I must explain that the legislation also calls for a "prebate" consumption allowance. The 23 percent tax on the required spending for basic consumption (adjusted for sizes of household) is paid back to all consumers by the government. This means individuals are taxed only on what they spend beyond what they need.

Opponents of the legislation argue that eliminating corporate income taxes will place the entire tax burden on individuals allowing businesses to profit. The truth is that every tax levied is already passed on to the consumer. In the supply chain, taxes are passed down until they end up in the laps of Cordell Customer or Trivett Employee as an increased price for goods or a decrease in wages. Former head of the Harvard Economics Department, Dr. Dale Jorgensen concluded that 22 percent of the prices of consumer products represent taxes. Since every business that has a hand in making the product passes the cost of taxes on, it is clear how quickly the sum can add up. We're already near the 23 percent simply by getting rid of just embedded taxes alone.

You are now ready to invest your money tax-free and spend it when you need it. Currently you pay the government every paycheck, cannot earn interest on what you withhold and get excited on April 15 if the government returns your money to you. With the FairTax system, you earn interest and pay taxes only when you choose to. Other benefits are passed down to the consumer as well.

Businesses are no longer concerned with the willingness of their consumers to pay for additional tax burdens. They will invest in projects that will increase their earnings without increasing the costs of their products. Companies will quit fleeing the country to find income tax havens in Bermuda. These implications mean more jobs and money for the American workforce.

Other savings exist. They involve more economics than I care to explain in a seven hundred word column, but I will opine that the FairTax ensures that our underground economy is taxed, offshore bank accounts disappear and the U.S. will become the tax haven for international corporations.

Talk show host Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder explain more in a book titled "The FairTax Book." Buy the book and you can help increase their income and their tax burden.

I have a few more episodes of Walker to attend to.

Pretty good read. Its more or less what me and ape have been saying all along.

posted on Feb, 10 2007 @ 12:51 PM
I received this letter from the Fair Tax Committee..

Thought I would share it..

With so much happening on Capitol Hill during the change from Republican to Democrat control, I have not had an opportunity to update you on the status of the FairTax. I have heard from many of you who fear that the change in power on Capitol Hill has doomed the FairTax, but I am writing to tell you that nothing could be further from the truth.

A decisive election like the one last November has an uncanny way of focusing politicians on the real reasons that their constituents sent them to Washington. Given the broad nationwide support of the voters for the FairTax, this refocusing is very good news for the FairTax cause.

The opportunity for FairTax this year was obvious on the very first day of this 110th Congress. I reintroduced H.R. 25 on that day, and I did it with more than twice as many original cosponsors than we had for its introduction in the last Congress. Even more exciting, I was able to introduce the FairTax as a bipartisan bill for the first time since 2003. Congressman Dan Boren, a Democrat from Oklahoma, joined me and 23 other colleagues from 11 different states to reintroduce the bill on January 4, 2007. Never before has the FairTax been reintroduced with such broad support.

This record-setting first day of the 110th Congress was only the beginning. Today, just over one month into this Congress, the FairTax and its supporters have amassed an extraordinary 52 cosponsors from 24 states. To put this accomplishment in perspective, in the 107th Congress, we never came anywhere close to this number; in the 108th Congress, we only barely achieved it after two full years; and in the last Congress, the 109th, the FairTax reached 52 cosponsors only after 15 months of hard work by volunteers across the country. As of today in the 110th Congress, the FairTax has garnered this level of support after just one month. Friends, I am under no illusion that we will continue to double the number of Congressional FairTax cosponsors every 30 days, but I am certain that this record-breaking start will produce more broken records and surpassed milestones for the FairTax as we move forward.

As you celebrate these early successes with me, I encourage you to make particular note of the FairTax cosponsors who have never before cosponsored the legislation. Among these names are freshmen Congressmen Timothy Walberg from Michigan and David Davis from Tennessee and veteran Congressmen Dave Weldon of Florida and Ed Whitfield of Kentucky. Another new name on the FairTax that I know you will want to notice is long-time supporter but first-time cosponsor, former Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert.

Of course, the success we are seeing on Capitol Hill is simply a reflection of the enthusiasm for the FairTax that is growing across the entire nation. Hundreds of thousands of people have joined together with Americans For Fair Taxation to promote the FairTax. Newspaper articles and editorials are being written almost daily to help educate people on the many benefits of the FairTax, and FairTax rallies are being attended by thousands of people. I want to continue to participate in these exciting FairTax events, and I hope that you will join me at one of them.

The FairTax will be the next grassroots revolution, but the FairTax is a huge idea that will take a great deal of passion to enact. I encourage you to get out there and support the FairTax by telling your friends and neighbors. Everyone knows that the income tax code is complicated and oppressive, but not everyone knows that the FairTax will free them from this intrusive burden. One-by-one, we will win their hearts and minds.

Congratulations to you and all other FairTax supporters on the incredible success that we have seen so far this year. Together, if we remain firm in our commitment and dedication to the cause, we will make the FairTax a reality.

My best,

John Linder



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 06:03 PM
same here fortis, do you contribute?

IMO democrats have no choice to hop on board otherwise that party will be replaced by Libertarians, as soon as enough democratic voters become educated on the subject of our federal tax code and break the democratic death grip the better off this country will be.

what worries me is if they hop on board as the majority and use fairtax as a weapon to keep the majority, this would then mean all of the US would have to watch them like hawks to keep them from manipulating the tax code and doing all sorts of bogus crap ( which is what they will do ).

the best thing the democrats can do right now is enact fairtax and say ' we did something the republicans refused to do as the majority', this would prolly bury the GOP. if the democrats dont they will be taken over again and eventually replaced as their policies offer nothing to keep america competitve in the 21st century..

[edit on 11-2-2007 by ape]

[edit on 11-2-2007 by ape]

posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 01:13 PM
As much credit we would like to place in our elected officials they are about as much inclinded to read a house bill as a two year old is to sit in the corner for an hour and not move. Alot of these guys see this and think we can't just restructure our tax system cause that sends panic into them about write on's and all other crap they pull they bank taxes to pay for. To them it's just the other side be it (R) or (D) trying to pull a fast on. But once you start reading into the bill you SEE what it does for the common American and the small business sector in this country. Once most people read and understand how everything you buy is taxed from reasearch and development to distribution to retail they kinda see the common sense. They look and say man thats a big tax on that chair but they don't see that once the tax is shifted to the consumtion of the product that all the taxes applied and passed on to the consumer from the development of the chair are eliminated and the market adjust the price then it will be as like the price never changed. Fair tax is the only way to go glad to see you guys pushing it


posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 07:29 PM
right on tsloan, man we go to war for this bill my friend I have donated my time to this org just because of it's principles and what it stands for, true individual liberty and prosperity for every man and woman who works in this country to make a better life for their families. our politicians will be forced or be voted out there is no other way in a democracy if they choose to ignore the constituants who voted them in.

every time I hear about social security and outsourcing and the poverty level etc I get infuriated because there is so much our leaders can do to fix this, IMO it should be considered treason to deliberatly make our products compete at a disadvantage in the global market and at home and to allow the strength of our manufacturing base move offshore. not to mention how they retard our individual growth and threaten our future to compete in the 21st century.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by ape]

posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 07:50 PM
Amen semperfortis. Thanks for sharing that man.

I pulled this off the fair tax site.

I think this is an exciting time for all of us. I have always been a fan of a FairTax, flat tax, etc. About a year and a half ago following some publicity on television (most likely Fox News), I purchased a copy of Congressman Linder's book The FairTax Book. Wow! What a dream come true.

I have always stood up for lower taxes, attending local meetings and talking to our elected officials. But now I am real serious.

When Congressman Ed Whitfield announced he would be holding a town hall meeting here in Paducah, Kentucky, I felt it was time that I had an opportunity to speak with him face to face about the FairTax. On occasion, when given the chance with his field representative, I have always passed along the thought of giving a tax break to hardworking people who are being punished for trying to be successful.

I went to the meeting at our local community college, where a crowd of approximately 60 people attended. The questions ranged from immigration to jobs. Then it was my turn. When I first stood up I asked him if he was familiar with HR 25. Seeing the kind of puzzled look on his face I said, “It is the bill that Georgia Congressman Linder has sponsored.” He commented something to the effect of that being a tax issue.

We discussed the matter further. Then I asked him if he thought the bill would have a chance to pass and he said, “Honestly, no.” And he then stated that there is public sentiment for simplifying the tax code, and that should be the focus of Congress.

I then thanked him for his time. The meeting was soon dismissed. I wasn't out of my seat before people began coming up to me wanting to know more. One even told me that he had sent Congressman Whitfield, Senator Mitch McConnnell, and Senator Jim Bunning copies of The FairTax Book. Once I left the meeting room in the lobby of the school, more people came up to me asking for information about the FairTax issue. Even in the middle of the Paducah Sun newspaper reporter's interview, several people came up to me wanting information.

That afternoon, I downloaded the sample letters from the Web site and wrote an e-mail to many of my friends and business associates encouraging them to write letters to the congressman and senators. Many of them responded that they would send their letters.

After I received a call the next week from Aaron Schutte at FairTax Central informing me that Congressman Whitfield had signed on as a co-sponsor, I called the congressman's field representative here in Paducah, David Mast, to thank the congressman for co-sponsoring the bill with Congressman Linder.

In response to the question, “Do you think asking him at that meeting directly correlated to him signing on to the bill?” I would have to say yes.

Congressman Linder even said in his radio interview last weekend on Sandy Springs Radio that Congressman Whitfield said that it had come up in a town hall meeting.

I will be sending another e-mail out to my friends to encourage them to write a letter to thank Congressman Whitfield for signing on to HR 25.

We will continue to contact our two senators to sign on to the Senate side of the bill.

I wear my “Make It Just Another Day” button as much as I can and have taken it off many times to give it to someone who wanted one. I even gave one to Senator McConnell's field representative the other day at an event. (I have placed another order for more.)

In the near future, we plan to organize a meeting and some special events to help educate the public on the FairTax.


Terry L. Schmitt


posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 09:51 PM
I also have more good news as I was listening to hannity today on the radio he happened to have boortz on for the last hour and the fairtax came up.. boortz said next month he is going to brief the republicans ( at their request ) and educate them about how to go about presenting the proper platform for the fairtax as they are going with it in 08, i'm sure linder will be with them.

i was talking to justin oldhham on the news forums and I predicted this would be a campaign issue and that the GOP is running on it, this will crush any democratic hope for the whitehouse and majority as the people become educated about federal taxation during this election cycle. they will soon learn that their are other options and better options for america in the 21st.

[edit on 19-2-2007 by ape]

posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 10:45 PM
We can only hope the majority of the people are sick and tired of the Democrats, and Democrats in sheep's clothing, taking our hard earned money from us...

I think this would be a GREAT platform for the Reps to run on...


posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 09:30 AM
Despite the complex nature of the American and global economy, and disregarding the lack of presented research and the more mysterious nonexistance of much of the nation's tax information which would be vital to the previous arguement, a few ATS members have somehow managed to find a method which will boost the economy by 70%, put $5k extra dollars in every American's pocket and not too mention augment the nation from a b cup to triple f you guys fail. How can you present this filth and think for one second what you are assuming?


posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:19 AM

Originally posted by etotheitheta
Despite the complex nature of the American and global economy, and disregarding the lack of presented research and the more mysterious nonexistance of much of the nation's tax information which would be vital to the previous arguement, a few ATS members have somehow managed to find a method which will boost the economy by 70%, put $5k extra dollars in every American's pocket and not too mention augment the nation from a b cup to triple f you guys fail. How can you present this filth and think for one second what you are assuming?

is this a joke? have you not read the information we have provided? this is not somethign that was created here on ATS HAHAHA this is a non partisan bill that has been researched since 1995, you really need to crawl out from under that rock before making such uneducated statements. this bill is a reality how about researching it before chiming in and calling it filth.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by ape]

posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 06:38 PM

Originally posted by etotheitheta
Despite the complex nature of the American and global economy, and disregarding the lack of presented research and the more mysterious nonexistance of much of the nation's tax information which would be vital to the previous arguement, a few ATS members have somehow managed to find a method which will boost the economy by 70%, put $5k extra dollars in every American's pocket and not too mention augment the nation from a b cup to triple f you guys fail. How can you present this filth and think for one second what you are assuming?

Yea, you kinda caught yourself talking out of your own ass.

Ape pretty much said what needed to be said.

We have presented many many sources and talked about this openly on here for the past few months. Its not us who thought up the fair tax. Its been heavily researched and debated for the past 11-12 years by many of the worlds economist, with many who agree that the fairtax is the best way to go for America. We're trying to educate ill informed peeps such as yourself about the fair tax. I suggest reading ALL pages on here pertaining to the fair tax and all the sources posted before jumping to to many conclusions.

posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 09:52 PM
Now guys cut him some slack,,,,

He obviously does not have a clue as to what he is talking about and this sort of knee jerk reaction is to be expected from the initiated...

However, it is incumbent upon us to educate those that are blind or without information. This is a VERY important piece of legislation; the more we have on board, the more we can educate, the more support we have...


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