FairTax, page 3
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reply posted on 9-1-2007 @ 05:41 AM by dawnstar
well, after reading these posts....
I have to put in a few concerns...

I've listened some about the fair tax, I haven't written it off as a bad idea....I just don't think it's gonna bring in the kind of money our government it used to spending, of course, it isn't bringing in that kind of money now either, is it?

so, anyway...

someone suggested that having more people, with more buying power out shopping for goods will drive prices down. But then, if I have an auction up on ebay, and well, if there's alot of people wanting to buy it, I'm going to get a better price than if there's only two or three people interested, ain't I? and well, $100 dollars is alot of money to spend on a pair of sneakers if you are only making minimum wage isn't it? just think, if we were all making minimum wage, that $100 dollar pair of sneaker would probably cost a tad bit less, ya think? I somehow don't think that have more people with more money to spend is an effective way to lower prices....ain't saying that we should all be making minimum wage either...but well, it does seem that the people would be more willing to pay the higher prices if they found themselves with more money...and that's all the companies need.

when child health plus was started in NY, Blue Cross Blue shield got the great contract from the state. all these kids that were once uninsured, became insured which caused massive growth in the healthcare area. but well who benefitted? doctors and nursed did for sure, hospitals and such.....the people who were uninsured did....but for you average consumer, well, blue cross blue shield Increased their premiums.....why not, the government was willing to catch those who fell out, or so is the general thinking.. they didn't pass any of the new found windfall down to the consumer, neither did the hospitals or doctors for that matter. and well, the big beneficiary of all this was the CEO of blue cross blue shield, and the various departments presidents and ceo's...their salaries about doubled!!
In plain simple words....I have my doubts that the companies and businesses will let any of the benefits they see from a change in the tax system be passed down to all...they gonna keep in in their little circle on the top....where, well, ya some of it will be spent on consumer goods, but alot more will be invested, since well, you can only buy so much in consumer goods before you end up with a mansion so full of crap that you can't find room to walk into it!

someone suggested that we'd have all these new taxpaying tourists...but well, our stuff is already higher than most countries as it is, it might just kill the tourist industry maybe, since this tax would just make it that much higher.

and someone else suggested that it would increase high paying jobs....but then, any of those high paying jobs will come with a need for higher education, which only leads to a higher need for student loans, grants, ect. and we will all still want our little cashiers, burger flippers, office clerks, ect....and more than likely still be paying them so little that they skip away tax free.

the one good thing I see in it really, is that it cuts out one beuracractic monster, the IRS....and the cost associated with it...but then, well, I'm sure it won't take long for the polywogs in washington to find a suitable replacement to the IRS with more than likely a bigger budget. the government will still be spending more money than we taxpayers are gonna be willing to give them, the companies and corporations that are finding all these creative ways to avoid the share of taxes now will just be off scott free. and it will be mainly the middle class that will be expected to pick up for the millions and billions of dollars that is lost when all that capitol that the upper classes couldn't possibly spend in their lifetimes is invested instead.

but like I first pointed out in my previous posts....I think it would be much easier to avoid paying taxes with the fair tax system....If I get overtaxed or peeved off about something, I don't have to quit my job, just cut my spending down to the bare necessities, and well, save the rest...


reply posted on 9-1-2007 @ 02:42 PM by semperfoo
Dawnster,

The fairtax is not perfect. However much better then any other taxation system currently out there. We the american ppl will see what our government is spending by making it more transparent to the american ppl. The fairtax has its cons, no doubt. But, just like any system it also has its pros with the fairtax pros far outwieghing the cons.

With the government spending more transparent to the american ppl and our GDP growing 2x-3x faster then it currently is, our debt, will virtually 'go away' for lack of better term. The FairTax solves the social security crisis, pays for Medicare, pays down the national debt, and releases our nation’s individuals and businesses to become as successful and productive as they desire. There have been estimates that our nation’s economy would more than double. Even if it only grew by only 40%, the investment and growth in the stock market alone would resolve all of the issues with the major airlines and automobile manufacturers. There will be good high paying 'jobs-a-plenty' for americans! The simplicity of the FairTax frees Americans from our current overwhelming tax code and unshackles the U.S. economy.


Will the fairtax make prices higher then they are now? No. Why? Because the costs of complying with our current tax system adds 20 to 30 percent to the costs of goods and services that we purchase now. The average is 22 percent. When the FairTax passes these hidden costs will go away. Competition will force prices down. When the FairTax, which is 23% is added on, total prices will be about the same as they are now. But workers will be taking home their gross pay and receive a monthly rebate. The rebate is intended to pay for the FairTax on purchases up to the poverty level. In other words the poor will pay ZERO federal taxes except for excise taxes. If they buy used items they will pay no FairTax on those items they purchase.


I would like to point out (again) that the fairtax has been heavily researched and debated for the past 10 years. And like stated before, many economist (75 in all) agree that the fairtax is best for america. Many agreeing with the fact that our economy would grow 10.5% in the first year of the fairtax. Doubling our current GDP size by 2015.

Dawnster. check out the link below. It deals with the economic benefits of the fairtax and compares it to our current tax system. It explains alot.
www.fairtax.org...

And about the global economy.
www.fairtax.org...

The fairtax will higher american wages as well.
www.fairtax.org...


Semperfortis, Yea man we touched up on that earlier. But just to echo it again, illegal aliens who get paid "under the table" will have to pay taxes because when they purchase goods at the checkout counter they are paying our taxes. The fairtax will also make americans more competitve with illegal aliens for jobs.


reply posted on 9-1-2007 @ 05:32 PM by ape
by dawnstar
and someone else suggested that it would increase high paying jobs....but then, any of those high paying jobs will come with a need for higher education, which only leads to a higher need for student loans, grants, ect. and we will all still want our little cashiers, burger flippers, office clerks, ect....and more than likely still be paying them so little that they skip away tax free.



yes it would increase the payraises companies fork out , people always look at companies as the evil villans when the people running these companies have to comply with a complex tax code making some of them go overseas to make a profit which is unfair and counter-productive. you have to understand that once this burden is released from them they will have no choice but to pay employees higher wages because not only can they afford it they will be competing with other businesses and small businesses who are willing to increase employee wages, it's would work out great and is a fine example of competition which is healthy in any democracy and capialist society and this includes 'burger flippin' jobs etc which you seem to adress in a rather insulting manner. those people flippin those burgers are doing the people a service who enjoy eating those burgers and they are working for their money instead of living soley off the government and my tax dollars, I commend anyone who works in this society as they contribute to the country.

secondly the interest rates for studen loans would be cut big time making it less stressfull about payments for the education you received, here is some information.

fairtax.org...









[edit on 9-1-2007 by ape]


reply posted on 15-1-2007 @ 01:00 AM by semperfoo
Yea dems are all for bigger government which means less power for the American ppl. They say they "represent" the little guy, which is nothing more then a joke.

The only Dem that I would possibly vote for would be mike gravel. He seems to want the best for the american ppl. He is a staunch supporter of the fairtax as well.

I found this article on the fairtax site. Its a pretty good read. It talks about Mike Gravel, who is a presidential candidate for 08'.
www.washblade.com...


He really seems to want what the american ppl want. Making America a 'true' democracy.

The below are some things Ive taken off a site that he supports and says he will do if elected president. Some views are a bit extreme. But I think he reall wants the best for america. Maybe a guy like Mike Gravel is who the american ppl really need? Maybe not. Decide foryourself.

* Commence an immediate and orderly withdrawal from Iraq;
* Raze Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib prisons to the ground;
* Stop Congress from raiding the Social Security Trust Fund;
* Initiate a Universal Single Payer Healthcare Plan;
* Abolish the Federal Income Tax & IRS, replacing them with the "Fair Tax" (a national sales tax);
* End the war against America's veterans; and
* Ask the American people to enact The National Initiative for Democracy so that you can decide on our agenda and all of the issues that affect your lives

www.gravel2008.us...

He is a long shot and probably wont get in due to some conflicting veiws he has.

For instance Gauntanamo bay. I personally dont think you can simply shut it down just because you think its immoral. We are still at war with extremist who want to kill us for many reasons and at any cost which is immoral. We simply cant lay down our gaurd, not now. Not in these times. There are many more. But he does seem to want the best for the american ppl.

Anyways. What say you?

I got nothing....


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reply posted on 16-1-2007 @ 06:00 PM by semperfoo
Yea semper I agree. He also doesnt have the $$$ backing that the above mentioned have.

I found this article on the fairtax site.
Pretty scary direction this country seems to be going in.


A grim outlook

The nonpartisan Government Accountability Office offered a sobering report to the Senate last Thursday on how deeply in debt this nation really is.

According to the head of that office, U.S. Comptroller General David Walker, the government has promised more benefits to recipients of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid than it can pay. The government’s total liabilities to social insurance programs total $50 trillion, approximately four times the nation’s economic output. That liability was $20 trillion in 2000.

Walker, quoted in a story from the Cox News Service, told the Senate that the budget is on a “imprudent and unsustainable” path because Congress has been cutting taxes since 2001 while increasing spending at substantial levels. The cost of the war in Iraq isn’t helping matters either.

The Bush administration had promised the tax cuts would spur economic growth, which would make up for the short-term revenue loss. “We cannot grow our way out of this problem,” Walker told senators. “The math just doesn’t work.”

Things will get bleaker once the 70 million baby boomers begin retiring next year, he said.

Walker listed several things Congress must do to deal with this problem:

– Improve accounting transparency to show the real cost of federal programs and tax cuts.

– Institute strict budget controls to stop lawmakers from boosting short-term deficits.

– Retool Social Security and Medicare so the government can meet its promises.

– Reform the health care system to lower Medicare costs.

– Simply the tax code to boost compliance and generate more revenues.


We encourage Congress to take seriously what the comptroller general had to say and act on his recommendations. This nation is facing staggering financial problems that, as Walker said, must be dealt with in a bipartisan manner.

Putting our nation’s financial house in order won’t be easy – or popular. But it must be done, sooner or later.

www.timesreporter.com...
The fairtax would go a long way in getting us back on the right track.



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