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posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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It has been brought up somewhat. I dont think there is a thread pertaining to this subject so i took the liberty of making one myself.

Our current federal taxation system (the income tax) is an abomination. Regardless if you disagree with the FairTax proposal something needs to be done with our current taxation system. We're on a sinking ship as we speak ppl.

The FairTax is a replacement tax and it will replace the individual federal income tax including, capital gains taxes, all payroll taxes, corporate income taxes, the self-employment tax, estate, and gift taxes.

More about the FairTax.
www.fairtax.org...

With the FairTax in place we will see incredible job growth. There will be hundreds even thousands of jobs that foreign companies will be bringing back to America. The United States has always been the world’s model for economic prosperity… That was up until the mid to late 1990’s. Then somewhere in that decade we fell behind several other nations. With the FairTax enacted, we will once again become the world’s economic trend setter and employment magnet.

The FairTax will equally lessen crime and make criminals pay taxes from their illegal income for the first time ever. Because when crooks buy with their ill gotten gains they’ll be paying taxes on their purchases. For the first time ever, illegal aliens will also pay taxes despite their “under the table” cash income. Most of the lobbyists on Capital Hill will have their power brokerage decreased because tax “favors” will no longer be used to garner corporate political clout.

We’ll see Japanese, German, Chinese and even Mexican manufacturers moving into the USA to save huge sums of money while providing Americans with jobs-a-plenty.

This is some of the things that have been touched up in other threads. But it pertains to this thread.

the below link explains the top ten reasons to support the FairTax plan.
www.salestaxusa.com...

Here are some google videos as to why our current taxation system is failing and what the FairTax proposal will do to help America and its Allies out. It also goes into greater detail about the 'FairTax' propsal.
video.google.com...

video.google.com...

[edit on 093131p://333 by semperfoo]




posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 09:28 PM
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you're giving us reasons to support this tax system
but no reasons as to to why the current income tax system is an abomination
or a sinking ship

now, i'm all ears for any system of taxation, but i want to know why we need a new one before you prepose it



posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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Well, my views have been rather heavily expressed as of late, but I'll start with a kudos for getting the idea its own thread to make it more visible.

Now, rather than recap another recent discussion in its entirety, I think I'll just toss out a couple of questions so we can look at the issue in some of its more important details.

It seems that a national sales tax in lieu of income tax and payroll taxes would discourage purchase, thus lowering demand and forcing prices down. This in turn would reduce sales tax revenue, as the tax is imposed as a percentage of price.

I have been unable to locate any report on the fair tax webpage which evaluates the potential impact or lackthereof from this.

By any chance do you know of any study which has attempted to calculate the drop in demand which could be expected, particularly in luxury items on which it would be unwise to waste one's prebate such as snackfoods, fast food, cigarettes, etc. and how this would affect prices and therefore the necessary tax rate?

In the interest of fairness, as I understand that whatever the flaws of fairtax may be, it will almost certainly have its positive aspects as well, has anyone attempted to calculate possible savings in federal budgets that might result from the discouragement of purchasing luxuries which produce a "public bad", such as the above mentioned junk food and cigarettes?

It may also be a worthy aim of this thread to use any resources we discover from researching these questions and others to ponder the possibility of hybrid plans that maximize the potential benefits of the fairtax plan and minimize potential detriments.

For instance, is anyone aware of partial transition plans that we might investigate which might involve variable fair tax rates for various types of goods or price ranges of goods? Examples of what I'm curious about would include a higher tax rate on a new motorcycle than on a hyrbid car, a higher tax rate on a rolex than on a more conventional watch, or a lower tax rate on groceries than on fast food or restaurant meals.



posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
you're giving us reasons to support this tax system
but no reasons as to to why the current income tax system is an abomination
or a sinking ship

now, i'm all ears for any system of taxation, but i want to know why we need a new one before you prepose it


Because our current federal taxation is killing american jobs. We need to keep jobs here in the states.The FairTax plan reduces the cost of American manufacturing and agriculture considerably.

Now under the FairTax, American manufactured or grown goods and services no longer enter the marketplace burdened with hidden corporate taxes, the cost of compliance with such taxes, and Social Security employee matching. This amounts to an average cost reduction from 12 percent to in some cases more than 25 percent. In other words, American goods become 12 to 25 percent more competitive.

Under the current system we are crippling american producers by tax burdens that foreighn producers most certainly do not have to pay. Making our products less competitive out in the open markets. U.S. corporate taxes are the highest in the industrialized world. These taxes also rank among the most complex and least stable or predictable, thanks purley to all the damed lobbyiest. This drives huge and ever-increasing compliance costs. To the extent that these corporate and payroll taxes and compliance costs imposed on producers and workers have forward incidence, and remain embedded in producer prices, relative prices of goods and services go up in the global marketplace. The only alternative left to producers is to make decisions about where to produce or invest. That all too often means moving offshore. (outsourcing american jobs)

It is estimated that border-adjustable tax regimes (virtually the entire world) outside of the U.S. effectively grant their producers an 18% price advantage over U.S. produced goods, whether competing here in the good ol' US of A or abroad.


Here are some applied research results of economists who analyzed the likely impact on the U.S. economy of moving from the current federal income tax system to a broad-based consumption tax, such as the national retail sales tax plan called for by HR 25 and S 25, the FairTax. In a study of the specifics of the FairTax plan, Kotlikoff and Jokisch find that the capital stock will be 13 percent higher under the FairTax system than under the current system by 2010, and 41.4 percent higher by 2030, and that long-run interest rates would be 150 basis points lower than under the current system. Their study states that, “the shift to the FairTax raises marginal labor productivity and real wages, over the course of the century, by 18.9 percent and long-run output by 10.6 percent. . . . These macroeconomic gains have important microeconomic welfare implications. In the long run, low-income households experience a 26.7 percent welfare gain, middle-income households experience a 10.9 percent welfare gain, and high-income households experience a 4.7 percent welfare gain. This is a very progressive long-run outcome.”1 Another new study of the FairTax plan by Arduin, Laffer & Moore Econometrics finds that investment will be 33 percent higher in the first year and 41 percent higher by the tenth year than under the current tax system. The effect of an increased rate of productivity growth and the reduced efficiency costs yields GDP up to 24.4 percent greater than under the current system by the tenth year. Consumption, fueled by 1.7 percent higher real disposable income in the first year which increases to 11.8 percent higher by the tenth year, is higher by 2.4 percent in the first year and 11.7 percent by the tenth year.


I suggest you watch the videos I posted. They cover alot of this.

One of the things I love about the fairtax proposal is there are NO federal deductions from your paycheck. Meaning you get 100% of your paycheck! Gone are the days of the 1040 filing. Alls you have to do is pay at the checkout counter and your done! No more audits, penalties, fines, seizures, and garnishments. NO MORE IRS!! YAY!

We really need to get the word out about this.

We all are learning more and more about this. Hopefully the powers that be dont mess this up for us.



posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 11:45 PM
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Although I suspect that some fairtax supporters would believe exactly the opposite of this, I believe that the current tax system is in urgent need of reform because it is not sufficiently progressive.

(they would more likely suggest that it is too progressive and not sufficiently rooted in merit, creating a disincentives even on those who despite their wealth are not actually rich enough to manifest that in the form of consumption.)

The top 20% of Americans earn 58.7% of all income and owned 91.2% of privately held wealth in America as of 2000/2001.

tax distribution
As of 2005 (I know this won't line up quite perfectly but I haven't found sources that line up right yet) the top 22% of tax payers were only paying about 55% of taxes.

In other words, their share of income is almost equal or slightly larger than their share of income taxes. That's excluding FICA, which cuts off at $94,200- the bottom 75% of tax payers pay more in FICA than income taxes, which would add several more percentage points to the gap.

Since the top earners are paying a share of taxes less than their share of income, and DISGUSTINGLY less than their share of wealth, we have a defacto regressive tax system. This is one of several problems.


There are definate issues of complexity as well which fairtaxers are very concerned about, but, naturally, the reasons for this and potential solutions are... a bit complex.

The IRS budget itself is only in the tens of millions- remarkably little for a government agency really.

Compliance however is claimed to cost between 100 and 500 Billion annually according to the GAO reports cited by Fairtax.org.

These compliance costs would take the form of paying tax lawyers, additional accounting staff and infrastructure, paying tax professionals, buying tax software, paying for electronic refund payment, etc.

They can be reduced by eliminating social-engineering from the tax code, but this must be weighed against the costs of undertaking other programs to those ends, or the costs (financial and otherwise) of not having certain incentives. Proceedural reviews might be in order, but it is hard for me to speculate on how much can be trimmed from things such as the need for accountants and tax lawyers.

Many of the complexities, expensive as they may be, exist to protect tax payers. You could eliminate compliance costs by eliminating all writeoffs for example, but that would ruin many people.

Finding progressive replacements for particularly complex portions of the tax system which require less administrative cost is worthwhile, but will not necessarily be simple. For instance the prebate necessary to make a sales tax replacement functional would cost more than even the highest estimates of compliance costs.


Edit to add:
Any chance you can source that quote in your last post semperfoo, and maybe sum up the videos for those unfortunate few (including me) who still have dialup or otherwise have problems with video?

[edit on 27-12-2006 by The Vagabond]

Second edit to fix link

[edit on 28-12-2006 by The Vagabond]



posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
Edit to add:
Any chance you can source that quote in your last post semperfoo,
[edit on 27-12-2006 by The Vagabond]


Great points vegabond.

Yea sorry about the source.
fairtax.org...
You have to have adobe to read it. I should have just posted that in the first place. It goes on to talk about alot more of the economic benefits than what I qouted. Enjoy.


and maybe sum up the videos for those unfortunate few (including me) who still have dialup or otherwise have problems with video?


For the sake of brevity. Basically what Ive been saying.

The video shows how we got where we are today with our current taxation systems. Our founding fathers prohibited the tax system we have today because they said an income tax was an unworkable threat to our liberties. It goes on to state that the income tax we pay to day started 93 years ago in 1913 the same year as the 16th amendment. Which is before most of us were born and certainly before anyone alive today began to earn a wage. It basically shows you the pros and cons of the fairtax and the cons of the tax system we use today. A good vid about this topic. But luckily for you cavemen and your slow dialup you can find this info throughout the entire internet! Enjoy.






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ape

posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 03:34 AM
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now lets keep our own personal 'solutions' out of this thread ok 'the vagabond' ?

here are some accurate informative blogs that i think you would all enjoy.

gregmankiw.blogspot.com...


this one goes into spending etc and if our economy would slow into recession or not

www.usatoday.com...

im going to bed, more later on. fair tax would halt outsourcing and big government, you have to understand that people would be making a crap load more money not just by keeping every cent in their pay check but companies would be making so much dough peoples pay rates would rise rapidly, companies foreign and domestic would compete for american workers, this means more company in-house schooling etc which means more education and a more solid foundation, a good example of this in america right now is lets say verizon fios, they send you to 5 week fiber optic training before you actually go into the field and work in a crew installing all of the equipment for video and data etc at the residents either overlaying or breaking fresh ground, great education for any work outside the company that sticks with you for the rest of your life and you never have to worry about work, now this would happen on a grandscale and the american worker average to poverty level would have just had the door of opportunity which is currently limited open for them in regards to higher advancment. now what i just mentioned is a a fiber network field technican job and thats grunt work and utilities is just one area that would expand if fair tax was installed, i cant even begin to imagine all of the technical jobs that would come over yet alone the pay rate, that fiber job right now pays about 30 bucks an hour.


[edit on 28-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 28-12-2006 by ape]



posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by ape
now lets keep our own personal 'solutions' out of this thread ok 'the vagabond' ?


If you don't like it, use the ignore feature. My questions were topical and valid.


here are some accurate informative blogs that i think you would all enjoy.
gregmankiw.blogspot.com...


That blog was rather inciteful. The response I found particularly lucid was the following

Sad to say, much of what passes for tax policy analysis in both professional economic writing---and most certainly in the media---is a vacuous comparison of one counter-factual hypothetical to another counter-factual hypothetical.


It also links to a paper by Lawrence Kotlikoff which makes it clear that the 23% rate is contingent upon the elimination of Social Security and other entitlement programs, although these are treated dismissively since Kotlikoff, as an economist rather than a sociologist, naturally takes a lower estimate of their value. If you did the same thing while evaluating the benefits of our current tax system (eliminate FICA) you would achieve similiarly spectacular results, including a drop in compliance costs because of you'd be getting rid of the earlier mentioned compliance infrastructure.

As I cautioned however, that cannot be interpreted without regard for the loss of social goods provided by those taxes.

The Q and A with Linder is interesting but he's full of it. The fact that he's a congressman is a dead giveaway. He implicitly suggests that all taxes are passed on to us at the shelf, and as such that prices would remain stable or even DROP despite a national retail sales tax. His assumption that current taxes are passed on to us is flawed in that it assumes inelastic demand. Part of those taxes are infact borne by the return on capital (ie, thinner profits), the result being lower taxes and more sales at a lower profit each, but not necessarily resulting in lower overall profits, only necessarily resulting in lower profit per sale. This means that in many products taxes could result in higher costs to the consumer and thus lower demand, translating into lower consumption and lower profits, with the lower profits offset by the fact that the damper on capital return has been removed. This makes the end result a potential even break for the investor but a raw deal for the consumer. Although it is perfectly acceptible for Linder to advance the plan, it is deceptive for him to catagorically state that consumption would not be lessened.



companies would be making so much dough peoples pay rates would rise rapidly

This is historically inaccurate, unless by people you only mean CEOs. There is a wonderful graph comparing productivity to median wages here. We have a progressively structured tax system right now, yet through the hard work of the wealthy, the outcomes are regressive. A plan that assumes they will benevolently raise our wages in a less progressive environment is hard to take at face value.


Incidentally, since you're back and apparently not too busy to talk about this as you said when I challenged you, are you sure you don't want to take this up in H2H?
(for what it's worth, you have a little bit less of that broken record feel for the moment... a little bit... and every little bit counts.)


ape

posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 10:37 AM
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i wont disagree that anything can and will happen with any system, however I and many others have done extensive research and me being a patriot and loving my country I have come to the conclusion that the fair tax plan is the best solution for this country. despite you saying highly reputable economists having overlooked simple flaws in the system which is very arrogant and ignorant, everything has been researched the the conclusion has been made. i'm at work and hardly have time to search for information yet alone even dedicate time to a discussion, im typing on my break as we speak.

this is another good discussion

www.tpmcafe.com...

look man, dont turn it into some posturing my opinion is better than yours gig with me, I'm at work right now and will look into it but let me remind you linder is just 1 piece of the puzzle, if you really wanted your questions answered it would be very easy to use google or ask.com to find your answers, I dont know why you would rely on someone to do your researcdh for you.

I have already taken one of your solutions and picked it apart piece by piece in another thread and it was infact not valid but even more arcane, the fact you continue to posture on another thread by oversimplifying something that isnt complicated and challenging mein the fashion you are tells me alot, I mean you came off as a socialist commie with your so called solutions, its not that I dont want to hear it and will ignore you it just makes me question your agenda. nothing you have proposed will stop current outsourcing, why do you think so many companies are going overseas? our current system is not progressive it encourages wastefull spending with a lack of oversight, this country makes plenty of money even with a flawwed system its the stupid politicans who spend it like a bunch of idiots.

once again greenspan and a bunch of others endorse it, im very sure they would have not overlooked this 'flaw' that you see vagabond but according to you they have an agenda, the answer is out there wether or not you want to accept it is another story, I for one am not going to do your research for you unless you start posting misinformation, everyone has been debunked when they attempted to argue fairtax.

its funny how u somehow think that a doubled in size economy and GDP will somehow makes us fall into a recession, it's almost unlrealistic,

[edit on 28-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 28-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 28-12-2006 by ape]



posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 01:20 PM
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And just to echo ape and others such as myself. Heres a pretty good read about the fairtax.
ezinearticles.com...:-Americas-Only-Choice&id=375763

Below I qouted some of the things that would really revitalize americas economy under the fairtax proposal.


Bringing American Business Back Home

“American business over sea could be eliminated…for GOOD!?”

The effect on these ‘hidden’ taxes has costed out economy in the form of American jobs being outsourced and moved over seas. Many Businesses have moved their headquarters and production to over seas where they will not be taxed as much as over here. FairTax will fire up particular incentive to move American based corporations back home. The taxes on capital and labor would be eliminated. The only way for any global business to compete with us would be to move their headquarters over here, Thus stimulating the economy, creating jobs and increasing stock values.There would be no reason to shirt American companies over seas,more jobs more revenue for America giving US the advantage.


Heres another thing I quoted from the above linked article. Read for yourself. Sounds pretty rewarding to me.


In 2003, $ 203 Billion was spent on IRS fillings alone, Money that could have been put to much better use under the FairTax plan. Economist estimate that in the first year alone our economy will grow 10.5% and exports will increase 26%! Capital Spending will increase 70%, our interest rates are supposed to decline as much as 30%! While the American worker is collecting 100% of their paychecks. The $400B to $500B we spend Compling with the IRS would be Additional money in our pockets.It would create jobs,increased profit margins and stock prices, new businesses. If our corporations werer the only NO embedded tax companies in out pricing system, NO one could even come close to competing with us. To remain competitive Foreign corporations will have to build plants and businesses here in America and soon enough enact a Fairtax of their own.



Overview of FairTax Collection of 100% of our pay checks We all get virtual Raises, since payroll taxes no longer apply. We will start receiving month Prebates equal to the amount of Consumption tax we would pay. Saving and investing will Sky rocket The prices of goods and services with remain virtually the same Rich Americans will bring their money back from off shore accounts and put it back into our economy. With lower intrest rates, higher saving rates and more disposible spending,it is clear that both home sellers and home buyers will benefit from this.


Though the writers english needs a bit of work, hes 100% correct.


[edit on 013131p://444 by semperfoo]



posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 01:56 PM
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Heres a link from wikipedia.
en.wikipedia.org...


Promotion of economic growth

In an open letter to the President, the Congress, and the American people, seventy-five economists, including Nobel Laureate Vernon L. Smith, stated that the FairTax would boost the United States economy.[7] According to the National Bureau of Economic Research and Americans For Fair Taxation, GDP would increase almost 10.5% in the year after the FairTax goes into effect.[8] Real investments could increase by as much as 76% initially and remain 15% above present levels. In addition, the incentive to work would increase by as much as 20%, the economy’s capital stock would increase by 42%, labor supply by 4%, output by 12%, and real wage rate by 8%. Further, studies of the FairTax at Boston University and Rice University suggests the FairTax will bring long-term interest rates down by as much as one third.[8] As falling tax compliance costs lower production costs, exports would increase by 26% initially and remain more than 13% above present levels. According to Professor Dale Jorgenson of Harvard University’s Economics Department, revenues to Social Security and Medicare would double as the size of the economy doubles within 15 years after passage of the FairTax.




The United States is the only one of 30 OECD countries with no border adjustment element in its tax system.[15] Proponents state that because the FairTax would automatically be border adjustable, the 17% competitive advantage, on average, of foreign producers would be eliminated, immediately boosting U.S. competitiveness overseas and at home.[9] Leo Linbeck, chairman of FairTax.org, has stated that U.S. manufacturers and sellers can not compete successfully with foreign producers because of U.S. tax policy. "The Ways and Means Committee is tasked with writing the taxation laws that raise revenues for the nation but the fact that foreign nations routinely tax U.S. products upon entry and that these nations forgo national taxes on exports to the United States is a Ways and Means blind spot that has all but killed the 'Made in America' label".[16] American companies doing business internationally would be able to sell their goods at lower prices but at similar margins, and this would bring jobs to America. In addition, U.S. companies with investments or plants abroad would bring home overseas profits without the penalty of paying income taxes, thus resulting in more U.S. capital investment. This would result in imports and domestic production competing on a level playing field. Exported goods would not be subject to the FairTax, since they would not be consumed in the U.S.; but imported goods sold in the U.S. would be subject to the FairTax because these products would be consumed domestically



Repatriation of offshore accounts

In The FairTax Book, Boortz and Linder assert that an estimated ten trillion dollars is currently held in foreign accounts, largely for tax purposes. They predict that enactment of the FairTax would result in a large portion of those funds being transferred to U.S. banks, where they would become available to U.S. capital markets, bringing down interest rates, and otherwise promoting economic growth in the United States instead of the countries where those funds are currently held.


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ape

posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 06:29 PM
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err not over simplifying i mean overly complicating something that isnt complicated at all vagabond, fair tax simplifies our system, our current system is not working. why should someone in india have a job that belongs in america? have you watched those doc's??? the indians actually think its because they're smarter !! trust me when I say the flaws have been looked at and still concluded that this system is the best for our country. take a look at our current tax system, over 60,000 pages wtf is that? it's flawwed beyond belief and if this country goes liberal democrat here comes the big government outsourcing tax you to the max policies that will make this country collapse, god damn socialists. we need something now to restabalise the dollar and bring the demand and innovation along with investment back to this country ( we do have demand and innovation and investment but our current policies will not sustaine the country and the spending needs to be checked, all of this can happen while fair tax doubles up our GDP and economy in the process making us more able to absorb our deficit in time.

the reason im posting blogs is because I feel they give a great perspective on opposing views, and we can compare and research what is being argued to our own little thread here.

these are pretty informative, oh and in regards to your prices being driven up etc.

"It is not being added on to the prices you pay today.

All income and payroll taxes are being repealed with the legislation and the NRST replaces them, that removes the business taxes & costs of planning, accounting, reporting and litigation associated with those taxes.

Instead of hiding 20-25% of those burdens in today consumption prices, those prices will stablilize at the same total payment you do now.

Supply demand is not repealed by NRST, you end up paying the same amount for products with NRST as you would for products with business income/payroll taxes burden in place and hidden.

All that is changed is how taxes are collected. The amount of taxation overall does not change. What you pay for things has no place to go but where it is now.

You just get to see the tax burden itemized on the receipt with a lower shelf price listed because businesses are no longer being hit for those taxes spread out throughout the whole chain of productinon to retail sale"

this is pretty accurate, imagine prices staying the same or dropping while being able to make more money and invest, plus you're overlooking how much industry would be developed not to mention the massive improvment of our current industry and retailers etc, the US is already transforming into fiber optics in regards to the civilian population, with fair tax this would only progress along with other technologies especially alternative fuels and alternative energy investment and science to improve our way of life. so many high wage jobs would be a plenty with either foreign or domestic companies, walmart and mcdonalds would become good start up jobs and maybe even career jobs instead of dead end crap holes, imagine that.

www.freerepublic.com...

www.stonescryout.org...

speckblog.com...


not to mention it makes the agenda driven even more clear to the public eye, it clears the smoke and is 1 step to going back to checks and balances instead of borrowing and spending.




[edit on 28-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 28-12-2006 by ape]



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by ape
err not over simplifying i mean overly complicating something that isnt complicated at all vagabond, fair tax simplifies our system, our current system is not working. why should someone in india have a job that belongs in america? have you watched those doc's??? the indians actually think its because they're smarter !! trust me when I say the flaws have been looked at and still concluded that this system is the best for our country. take a look at our current tax system, over 60,000 pages wtf is that? it's flawwed beyond belief and if this country goes liberal democrat here comes the big government outsourcing tax you to the max policies that will make this country collapse, god damn socialists. we need something now to restabalise the dollar and bring the demand and innovation along with investment back to this country ( we do have demand and innovation and investment but our current policies will not sustaine the country and the spending needs to be checked, all of this can happen while fair tax doubles up our GDP and economy in the process making us more able to absorb our deficit in time.


It's 60,000 pages and growing each and every year.

Your right about one thing. With our current policies our country is sinking, and sinking fast. With countrys such as china and several others being the subsequent holes that is starting to take on all the water. And sadly, its getting worse by the year....

People who think this is all bushys fault need to take a closer look at the real culprit. Our federal taxation system. The rest of the world has caught on to capitalism. American companys dont necissarily want to go overseas. But its survival for them. If they didnt go offshore they wouldnt be able to compete with foreighn markets. All thanks to our horrid taxation systems.. Thats one of the main reasons why we have the outsourcing of american jobs in the first place. The fairtax would certainly go along way in getting this country back in the right direcetion. Makeing the US the 'trend setter' for economic policies once again! To echo certain sentiments like what ape has been saying. The 'fairtax' has been heavily researched and heavily debated. And many economist agree that this is the best direction for the US of A to go! This will create jobs-a-plenty in the US by makeing the US more competative in the open market and will drive up wages for ameircans. Like Ive already said, businesses in countrys such as germany, japan, china, and several others will be flocking to the US to save huge sums of money creating lots of jobs for americans. The fairtax proposes that you keep 100% of your paycheck, and you no longer have to deal with the IRS! Alls you have to do is pay out at a checkout counter and your D-O-N-E! If we go with the fairtax proposal many economist have said that our economy will double its current size by 2015!! The FairTax will make america stronger in the future. Making our political will stronger against certain countrys that mean us harm. Translated, no more stupid wars! America will regain the powers it once had before the rest of the world started beating us at our own game. Simply by the US raiseing the economic bar! The 21st century doesnt belong to the EU or China, but in rather contrast belongs to the USA and our close allys if we so choose to make it ours! It's up to us America.

I saw the documentary your talking about ape!. It was about an american citizen who went to india to get back his job that was outsourced. He was one of those annoying telemarketers. Anyways long story short, one of the indian dudes straight out tells this american guy that the reason why the US is sending jobs like telemarketing over to india is because the indians are smarter which makes them do the job better!!!
IT'S F'ING TELEMARKETING!!! C'MON!! Dont flatter yourself man!!.....

Anyways its good to see someone else is a strong supporter of the FairTax.
Its what the american ppl want. And its the american ppl need! Its what is in the best interest of America. It is vital for our future as an economic superpower!

The blogs are fine! It gives a better perspective and representation of what the american ppl are thinking and wanting. No harm in posting them! The american ppl are the ones who are the backbone of the fairtax proposal in the first place! Keep up the good work!












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ape

posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 06:06 PM
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yes, a business has every right to go overseas to be able to compete especially when the tax policies at home are making it more difficult. this is a clear sign that our current system is horribly flawed, any tax policy that encourages domestic companies to pack up and head overseas needs to get adjusted or replaced. any tax policy that encourages foreign companies to pack up and come overseas to america needs to be enabled IMO, fair tax does this and whats great about the fair tax is this is just one positive out of a whole sea of positives.

yah that was the docu that i watched aswell, the american was a dorky dude but none the less the man was educated and was willing to work for his money and the fact he had to go to india to find his line of work really pissed me off beyond no belief, it would appear the powers at be want us to rely on them more and more and turn our great country into a euro model.

im also glad someone else is into this as much as I am, i try to tell someone new everyday because the only problem we have right now is not enough people know about it. as soon as this is fixed it will be passed, our law makers dont controll us as so many think on this website, only americans like you and I mang are in control of the future, the government can kiss my ass they will be reduced those imposing bastards.



posted on Dec, 30 2006 @ 08:04 PM
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Here are some videos of fairtax from youtube.
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 083131p://0612pm by semperfoo]



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 03:29 AM
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This sounds good to me. I am sick of how it looks like every American company is going to China.


ape

posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 10:17 AM
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yeah man its not good for america if we want to stay competitive in the 21st century, we got to keep industry and jobs here at home and expand the economy.

what i like about the fairtax is it has more research and foundation behind and under it that it will not go away like all of the other proposals have done, plus we have to ensure the 16th amendment get abolished it we could end up having both a NRST and an income tax.

[edit on 1-1-2007 by ape]

[edit on 1-1-2007 by ape]



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by spinstopshere
This sounds good to me. I am sick of how it looks like every American company is going to China.


We all are my friend.
which is why we are pushing for the fairtax. We want and need a change. The fairtax will have a counter affect against outsourcing and will start sucking once oursourced american jobs back into the states as well as other other countrys who will be sending manufacturers to the states to save huge sums of money under the fairtax. All this is made possible by America raising the economic bar! Its up to us to make this thing happen.



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 06:48 PM
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i wonder what will happen to the rest of the world if all of these positive effects happen

would the chinese economy collapse?
would the third world move further down the ladder?


ape

posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 09:43 PM
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thats really not my problem as those jobs should not be over there in the first place in the mass quantities that currently exist, india and chinas future is none of my concern its up to them to build a strong society and infrastructure without the need for american and UK and all the other countries that outsource industry and jobs. however jobs will still remain in those countries but it would be reduced greatly.


[edit on 2-1-2007 by ape]





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