Pelosi and her merry band of democrats will steal

Originally posted by sleeper
Granted, it would be nice, but unfortunately we live in this world and things don't away rhyme like they do in Dr. Seuss---

It's an allegory sleeper. Politics aside (I'm a moderate, so shoot me) - there's much more to the poem than rhyme.

-Ry

[edit on 27-12-2006 by rdube02]

Sleeper - is this the best you have to bring to this discussion?

I'd like to see some real examples from you, rather than your sound bites.

To put it another way, is there any substance to your obviously die-hard position?

Examples of large corporations who have done the right thing (for their workers AND for the world as well) would be nice.

Always,
Shawnna

Originally posted by Shawnna


Ah yes - it is the "left" who are to blame.

Tell that to the generations of people who lived near Chernobyl.

Tell that to the millions of Europeans that live with cheap nuclear energy, they are laughing at us for Americans for living as they did in the eighteen hundreds still burning coal.

Now that’s progress.

Chernobyl was built by Communist, as was the Hugo----remember that car? Communist shouldn’t be allowed to play with matches, let alone nuclear power plants.

Originally posted by Shawnna

Originally posted by forestlady

Oh you mean like Enron? BTW, any money you earn from your pension IS your money and it IS earned. You worked for it, you put money into your pension, it was invested and so you earned it, it's not a hand out.

I agree, forestlady.

Pensions are actually 'deferred compensation'. For those corporations that try to get out of paying their employees their rightfully earned pensions - they are actually stealing the employee's deferred compensation.

Of course in the spirit of American capitalism, they have a government-sponsored insurance organization that covers their butts when they do this - it's called the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation.

Always,




Shawnna

I'm not entirely anti corporate but there is some rediculous corporate bootlicking going on in here and it's pathetic. Large corporations are not the end all be all and it's about time the winds stopped blowing in their direction.
Anyone who has seen me post before should know that I'm not too happy on some level with Democrats being in power but as much as I hate to say this I think it's a good idea because the "Republicans" that have had control are far more evil. I HATE usury and corporate greed and it has been out of balance for way too long. Thank GOD for time limits because if it wasn't for them we would not have balance. The Democrats taking over is a necesary correction that was long overdue however I doubt they will really help reign in corrupt 'corporatacracy' because I feel they are ultimately all on the same 'team'. I think what we really need to be worried about and someone here mentioned this earlier is our loss of essential liberties. Even though the screws have not been tightened the framework has been laid in place with only the finishing touches needing to be applied.

Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the 'poor' corporations. One of these days we are going to wake up and be SLAVES to them and I'm sure many of your oppinions will abrutply change at that point.



[edit on 27-12-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Originally posted by Shawnna
Sleeper - is this the best you have to bring to this discussion?

I'd like to see some real examples from you, rather than your sound bites.

To put it another way, is there any substance to your obviously die-hard position?

Examples of large corporations who have done the right thing (for their workers AND for the world as well) would be nice.

Always,
Shawnna

Sorry Shawnna but sound bites are the best I can do, if you want pages of manifestoes I can’t help.

Very few American corperation would survive if they were not assets to the community and the world around them.

That is not true with many nation-owned companies because they are usually corrupt. America doesn’t have any nation-owned companies; however we do have a large government with many agencies and some of them become corrupt.

Sleeper
America doesn’t have any nation-owned companies;

Would you please elaborate on this and would you also tell us how much of America is owned by 'nation-owned companies'?

Originally posted by sleeper

Originally posted by Shawnna


Ah yes - it is the "left" who are to blame.

Tell that to the generations of people who lived near Chernobyl.

Tell that to the millions of Europeans that live with cheap nuclear energy, they are laughing at us for Americans for living as they did in the eighteen hundreds still burning coal.

Now that’s progress.

Chernobyl was built by Communist, as was the Hugo----remember that car? Communist shouldn’t be allowed to play with matches, let alone nuclear power plants.

I believe it is the Yugo you are referring to sleeper.



And perhaps if you got your corporate buddies to focus on what would be best for the country as a whole, rather than their own individual pocket books and retirement plans, we could move forward with an alternative energy policy that made sense.

There are a number of technologies available - see this list. Now why haven't these technologies reached the open market?

It's complicated so it may require a little more time than you've spent on your 'sound bite' responses, sleeper.



Feel free to read this - if you're open to expanding your knowledge a bit.

Here's a snip to whet your intellectual appetite.

The Invisible Enemy

There are four gigantic forces that have worked together to create this situation. To say that there is and has been a "conspiracy" to suppress this technology only leads to a superficial understanding of the world, and it places the blame for this completely outside of ourselves. Our willingness to remain ignorant and actionless in the face of this situation has always been interpreted by two of these forces as "implied consent." So, besides a "non-demanding public," what are the other three forces that are impeding the availability of free energy technology?

In standard economic theory, there are three classes of Industry. These are Capital, Goods, and Services. Within the first class, Capital, there are also three sub-classes. These are: 1) Natural Capital. This relates to raw materials (such as a gold mine) and sources of energy (such as a hydroelectric dam or an oil well). 2) Currency. This relates to the printing of paper "money" and the minting of coins. These functions are usually the job of Government. And 3) Credit. This relates to the loaning of money for interest and its extension of economic value through deposit loan accounts. From this, it is easy to see, that energy functions in the economy in the same way as gold, the printing of money by the Government, or the issuing of credit by a bank.

In the United States, and in most other countries around the world, there is a "money monopoly" in place. I am "free" to earn as much "money" as I want, but I will only be paid in Federal Reserve Notes. There is nothing I can do to be paid in Gold Certificates, or some other form of "money." This money monopoly is solely in the hands of a small number of private stock banks, and these banks are owned by the Wealthiest Families in the world. Their plan is to eventually control 100% of all of the Capital resources of the world, and thereby control everyone's life through the availability (or non-availability) of all goods and services. An independent source of wealth (free energy device) in the hands of each and every person in the world, ruins their plans for world domination, permanently. Why this is true is easy to see. Currently, a nation's economy can be either slowed down or sped up by the raising or lowering of interest rates. But if an independent source of capital (energy) were present in the economy, and any business or person could raise more capital without borrowing it from a bank, this centralized throttling action on interest rates would simply not have the same effect. Free energy technology changes the value of money. The Wealthiest Families and the Issuers of Credit do not want any competition. It's that simple. They want to maintain their current monopoly control of the money supply. For them, free energy technology is not just something to suppress, it must be PERMANENTLY FORBIDDEN!

Always,
Shawnna

Everytime I start to forget how incredibly awesome the republicans are, there is a thread like this.


Thanks, Sleeper for reminding me

Actually, that was the most non-offending sarcasm I could muster about this thread. I feel sorry for those who have stared into the spiral of hypnotism (Fox, CNN, MSNBC...) long enough to believe this garbage. Sleeper, I respect you having an opinion, but it appears that your research may be a bit limited. I think that if it were not, you would see that having balanced senate/house is better (not by a whole lot though) than a severly right-heavy one. Put down Culture Warrior for a few minutes, and try something else.....

That is what will shift the World leading power from the US to the EU. It has already started. The world will stop buying USD and switch to the Euro Dollar. This will make the United States of Europe strong (Foriegn Investment) and cripple the economy in the USA.

The World will lose confidence in the USD and quit buying those dollars. As stated here China has already started, and if there is a sniff of this weakening, like Enron, there will be a fast and huge dumping of USD. This will tear down the economy in a short time. USD will be worthless, kind of like the Yen used to be 10 years ago.

Read about it at the-end.com. If you think this is fantasy, it won't take that long to find out, because it is happening as we watch.

I just want people to be aware of the times we are living in.

[edit on 27-12-2006 by win 52]

If you think socialism is so bad why don't you visit the horribly poor countries of denmark, scandinavia and austria. Do that and you'll truly find out how blessed we are to live in a non-socialist nation.

Originally posted by sleeper

Originally posted by forestlady
Well, I was living in California at the time of Enron's collapse. I was paying $300 a month for heating a small little cottage. I knwe people with $600 and $700 dollar a month utility bills. That was about a 300% increase in price and it all happened when Enron took over.

I live in the Midwest and we didn't have Enron, but we had and continue to have those high utility bills.

The fault lies with the left, who did their best to stop cheep nuclear energy back in the sixties. Nearly every country in Europe uses nuclear plants to power their cities, yet here in the most advanced country in the world we still burn coal and natural gas---is that asinine or what?

Now we have to pay through the nose for our power, thanks to the Hollywood left propaganda machine that scared Americans away from nuclear power plants.

This isn't a partisan issue, the left had nothing to do with it. The problem came from, at least in California, Califiornia not building any more energy plants, even though they knew they needed them. Instead, they contracted with energy companies, thereby creating an extremely unneccessary middle man, who could raise prices as high as they wanted.

BTW, it was the gov of calif at that time, who's administration was responsible for this change. His name was Pete Wilson, BTW on a side note, he was a Republican. It wasn't the Democrats who decided not to build more power plants.

Enron fell because it was corrupt, the books were cooked. When that news got out, that's when their stock started falling. Enron lied about its assets and yeah, smart people got scared and sold their assets, like any sensible person would have done. Enron was badly managed and it was corrupt at the top.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

Sleeper
America doesn’t have any nation-owned companies;

Would you please elaborate on this

I’m not talking about multinationals, and yes American has plenty of those.

and would you also tell us how much of America is owned by 'nation-owned companies'?

America is not owned by anyone except our local governments, which will confiscate any property they can’t collect taxes on.

Corperations don’t own American if they did there wouldn’t be thousands of them every year being liquidated by government agencies mostly for taxes, or a number of other administrative reasons.

And perhaps if you got your corporate buddies to focus on what would be best for the country as a whole, rather than their own individual pocket books and retirement plans, we could move forward with an alternative energy policy that made sense.

I don’t have any corporate buddies, most of the fat cats I know are democrats and we are not buddies, I only did some work for them.

Nevertheless I’m willing to defend those millions of fat cat liberals because they know not what they do when they vote in or put into office more of their kind.

And there lays the problem you addressed---Ive been inside of their houses and they are like castles and they only care about two things: spending money on themselves, and pouring money into democratic coffers. In this last election it paid off for them.

There are a number of technologies available Now why haven't these technologies reached the open market?

I work in construction and if I invent a better mouse trap so to speak, to be used in a house it would take more than ten years to get the codes people just to look at it, let alone approve it.

It’s not worth the effort.

Also much of the fault is with the unions, they are afraid that every new invention that comes alone will deplete their numbers. Not true but that’s what they believe and they have the power to stop new inventions.

Originally posted by sleeper
We pay big bucks to CEOs because some of them are good at making companies profitable.

We don’t pay big bucks to CEOs because they are good looking; they have to earn what they are paid.

Take away the good CEOs and all pension funds will evaporate, and so will America.

Over the last 5 years, the CEOs of AT&T, BellSouth, Hewlett-Packard,Home Depot, Lucent, Merck, Pfizer, Safeway, Time Warner,Verizon and Wal-Mart were paid an aggregate $385 million in compensation- while shareholders lost a total of $640 billion.

-from Lou Dobbs' "War on the Middle Class"
www.amazon.com...
In his book, Lou lists several more examples, too. A very good book, worth the read.

So where do the good ones work? How do they justify those huge salaries while their companies are going down the toilet?

Originally posted by forestlady
This isn't a partisan issue, the left had nothing to do with it. The problem came from, at least in California, Califiornia not building any more energy plants, even though they knew they needed them. Instead, they contracted with energy companies, thereby creating an extremely unneccessary middle man, who could raise prices as high as they wanted.

It was partisan, Jane Fanda and many of her cohorts campaigned non-stop against nuclear power plants. And many that were under construction closed their doors because of them.

And the power plants you are talking about would have been coal-fired, and the loops one has to jump to build those plants made the cost prohibitive, that’s why they didn’t get built.

BTW, it was the gov of calif at that time, who's administration was responsible for this change. His name was Pete Wilson, BTW on a side note, he was a Republican. It wasn't the Democrats who decided not to build more power plants.

Are you saying that most of the legislation concerning air quality was put into place by Republicans? No it was put into place by democrats, and the bureaucracy from that legislation makes it impossible to build power plants, unless the governor was god there wasn’t much else he could do.

Enron fell because it was corrupt, the books were cooked. When that news got out, that's when their stock started falling. Enron lied about its assets and yeah, smart people got scared and sold their assets, like any sensible person would have done. Enron was badly managed and it was corrupt at the top.

Enron fell because everyone sold the stock, there are far worst off companies that mange to survive and restructure---Enron was not allowed to do that because their stock collapsed from the panic and everyone who lost money wanted someone’s head. So heads had to roll to appease the mob.

Aside from the hilarious postings by the OP, you kill me! Really you do!
There are demonstrably quite a few arguments where a little learning in the art of Economics would be aptly applied.

Michael Eisner - Laid off 2500 people from Disney Animation for an estimated payroll savings of $125,000,000.00
(if each person made 50,000peryear)
He then received a Bonus of (now count carefully) $500,000,000.00
for an offset of -$375,000,000.00 ...

Now what contribution to the economy would 2500 employed people make versus 2500 Unemployed people?

What contribution has Mr. Eisner make, aside from divisiveness on the Disney Board.

One other thing, way back when only individuals owned Stock, they could have an affect on the operations by Effectively managing the Board of Directors, now that we have Mutual Funds, the Board runs itself.

[edit on 27-12-2006 by 2stepsfromtop]

Enron fell because they had developed shell companies as customers. Sarbanes Oxley is a direct result of Enron and it is not because everybody sold off their stocks.

If the company fell because of people selling their stocks, then why are the Executives in court and in jail?

Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by sleeper
We pay big bucks to CEOs because some of them are good at making companies profitable.

We don’t pay big bucks to CEOs because they are good looking; they have to earn what they are paid.

Take away the good CEOs and all pension funds will evaporate, and so will America.

Over the last 5 years, the CEOs of AT&T, BellSouth, Hewlett-Packard,Home Depot, Lucent, Merck, Pfizer, Safeway, Time Warner,Verizon and Wal-Mart were paid an aggregate $385 million in compensation- while shareholders lost a total of $640 billion.

-from Lou Dobbs' "War on the Middle Class"
www.amazon.com...
In his book, Lou lists several more examples, too. A very good book, worth the read.

So where do the good ones work? How do they justify those huge salaries while their companies are going down the toilet?

Lou Dobbs is a propagandist not an economist and he has a potty mouth.

All those companies are solvent and making billions of dollars otherwise their employees wouldn’t be taking home pay checks.

And those who own those stocks are also making money---has the leftwing propaganda blinded people that much?

All companies show loses as well as gains has nothing to do with anything it’s the nature of business.

Those who don’t understand capitalism are easily fooled by the likes of Lou Dobbs.

Here is a tip go buy stock in anyone one of those companies but don’t panic and sell when the stock falls a few points---those that lose are those that sell when the stock fluctuates and they get scared.

Thousands of pension funds hold stock in all those companies but few of them sell every time the company hits a speed bump.

Originally posted by sleeper

Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by sleeper
We pay big bucks to CEOs because some of them are good at making companies profitable.

We don’t pay big bucks to CEOs because they are good looking; they have to earn what they are paid.

Take away the good CEOs and all pension funds will evaporate, and so will America.

Over the last 5 years, the CEOs of AT&T, BellSouth, Hewlett-Packard,Home Depot, Lucent, Merck, Pfizer, Safeway, Time Warner,Verizon and Wal-Mart were paid an aggregate $385 million in compensation- while shareholders lost a total of $640 billion.

-from Lou Dobbs' "War on the Middle Class"
www.amazon.com...
In his book, Lou lists several more examples, too. A very good book, worth the read.

So where do the good ones work? How do they justify those huge salaries while their companies are going down the toilet?

Lou Dobbs is a propagandist not an economist and he has a potty mouth.

All those companies are solvent and making billions of dollars otherwise their employees wouldn’t be taking home pay checks.

And those who own those stocks are also making money---has the leftwing propaganda blinded people that much?

All companies show loses as well as gains has nothing to do with anything it’s the nature of business.

Those who don’t understand capitalism are easily fooled by the likes of Lou Dobbs.

Here is a tip go buy stock in anyone one of those companies but don’t panic and sell when the stock falls a few points---those that lose are those that sell when the stock fluctuates and they get scared.

Thousands of pension funds hold stock in all those companies but few of them sell every time the company hits a speed bump.

I like Lou Dobbs but I am not enamored with him... having said that, he makes more sense than your justification. It is not Capitalism that most are upset with, it is the "free trade" treaties that are negotiated by our Administrations and NOT the free market. If these globalist ideas were sooooo good for everybody, then why do they have to make laws and special courts, in order to get the countries/people to comply?

I am thoroughly in Sleeper's corner with this one. It is not like we are going to find an alternative fuel solution overnight. I am pretty sure that most people that are screaming at the big corporations( especially the oil giants) like Pelosi do not walk to work. It is kind of hard to take the left( and it is the LEFT, not democrats as a whole) seriously when they scream about how horrible things are and how we need to kill the big corp's, and then take off in their gas guzzling SUV's. If Pelosi wants to be serious, how about extending the amount of time it takes for a congressman to get their pension. The last time I checked it takes 20 yaers for the average joe or jill to get a pension even in civil service or putting your neck on the line in the armed forces. If memory serves, it takes 6 years for a person in congress that has been voted out to collect a fat pension from the taxpayer.

As far as the oil companies go, open up ANWR, drill in the gulf. We are almost completly at the mercy of the islamic world and pretty soon our old Russian buddies because the left and moderate republicans do not want to upset a nematode somewhere. Drilling has gone way beyond the old days of the strip mine mentality, and we do it quite cleaner than most of the world(check out the enviromental policies of other countries besides the US).

I hope that Pelosi can see for the time being that we as a nation (and most of the world as well) rely on the life blood that is oil. If not, enjoy walking to work if you still have a job through downtown DC. You better be armed, but that is a whole 'nother thread.