Originally posted by soficrow
Get a good book on midwifery, or cultivate a friendship with a midwife. Or both.

Mental note: do not knock up group midwife.

I'm going to have to say that this kind of hygenic stuff seems awful important, because childbirth in the wild has roughly the same chance of killing a woman as a bulletwound does.

Think about this: you're having your baby, but you haven't eaten proper in weeks, if not months. You're probably more than a little dehydrated, vitamins and antibiotics (much less painkillers) are a thing of the past. If something goes wrong, do you or yours know what to do? More importantly, are they COMPETENT enough to do it without killing you or your belly-fruit?

What about if you get some sort of infection? I know bacteria loves thsoe kinds of conditions. I won't elaborate, because quite frankly, I don't have the plumbing and have no clue as to what can go wrong all up in. but I suspect there are more than a few things.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx

What about if you get some sort of infection? I know bacteria loves thsoe kinds of conditions. I won't elaborate, because quite frankly, I don't have the plumbing and have no clue as to what can go wrong all up in. but I suspect there are more than a few things.

DE

I was group B strep positive with all 4 of my kids-my first ended up in the NICU for 5 days because I delivered right at the 24 hour mark after my water broke. All of my contractions stalled and I needed pitocin to restart them, with the exception of my son who picked his head up in the birth canal and then required a C-section birth. Frankly if I had had my kids outside a hospital setting I would never have gotten past my first pregnancy! Darwin? Perhaps! Lucky for me they're all healthy, pretty smart and pretty cute!

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Get primal and know your historical female role. The time following situation X, is much like the time 500 years ago.

When women were hunted and burnt alive for the catholic church? That era did not reflect a 'female's role'. In pagen days women were the doctors. Times change.

The faster you return your man's little bubble on the home front to normal, the more productive he will be in either helping your family relocate away from trouble or mastering the new situation.

I hope this is satire.. otherwise you really underestimate women. I'm female and I have a very tactical mind. Leaving it to just men to make decisions is a waste of mental resources and therefore very unproductive.

Watch what you "want"

Why? Knowing what you want is important for survivial. Being selfish can be an advantage.. being selfless could lead to being taken advantage of or abuse.

Check your "mouth"

huh? Are you promoting oral hygeine or worried about women watching their 'Ps and Qs'? I really don't think ettiquette will be at the top of people's lists. If you mean dental hygeine I agree it should be a priority- blood poisoning can be a bitch.

Remove all jewelery

Of course. You need things to bartar with and it's not good to have valuables visible when resources are low. It can also catch on things when you're working.

Cover up your body

Why? Is this to prevent hypathermia, sunstroke, skin cancer or immodesty? Do you expect women to cover up while farming, fishing etc or would you rather them overheat?

Stay in your bunker, unless
She who sacrifices today will live in abundance tomorrow.

Thanks but I'll go out and start organising a food supply and shelter myself rather than waiting and hoping someone else will come through with it. Though it may be a humble quality.. I don't see how striving to 'go without' will yield any results.

Trust the one you love has your ultimate happiness in mind when he tells you to drop everything, because "we've got to go."

I am,

Good for you.. though your advice may not be as practical for other people.


In regards to periods.. the aussie aboriginals apparently used mud [which would dry] as they were always on the move. Personally I'd rather stock up on tampons, pads and toilet paper.

They won't be for sale though so don't bother asking.

Watch what you "want"
Check your "mouth"
Remove all jewelery
Cover up your body
Stay in your bunker, unless
She who sacrifices today will live in abundance tomorrow.

Check your mouth? Why?
Remove all jewelry? Why? So long as the skin is healed, I do not see the point to this.
Cover up the body? ...I'm assuming this is an effort to keep warm?

Remember, your talking survival here, not a weekend camping trip. I think a Period is going to low down your list of priorities, to be honest. finding food and keeping warm are your main things to worry about.

Bleeding for once a month is hardly worth worrying about, in the grand scheme of things.

Your words are true. However, depending on the survival issue -- menstruation is something to, if nothing else, keep in mind. For instance, some animals smell blood.. This puts a whole new spin on surviving -- hunkered down in the cave/bunker and all of a sudden a pack of wild, hungry animals are creepin' around? The same issue with birth out in the wild -- the afterbirth must be buried. Besides the fact that it's good for plants, it keeps other 'unwanted' creatures away...

You're right - food, water, shelter.. yes, these are main concerns. Top 3 really. But, I do not wish to be surprised by my period, and worried about hygiene when I'm hungry. (Of course, I suppose it *could* work as bait.......)

Is it true that when under lots of physical stress, menstruation can sometimes
cease, or change in regularity?

I'm asking because I've heard this can be true of female athletes.
Would this pertain at all to a survival situation?

High stress can actually trigger menstruation sooner than normal. Sometimes, depending on the amount of stress, the cramps are actually worsened. (However, exercise can help speed up one's period, as well as alleviate cramps. ...the problem comes in motivation to get up and move! )

However, if the woman is high in muscle, or very *very* low on water/food, menstruation may slow down or cease altogether...

Regularity, in an of itself, (as far as I understand) would change significantly if all the lights went out. If I understood correctly, women would have their periods around the time of the full moon -- something about the light of it triggers the event. As it is now, there's lights on all the time (esp. in cities), so menstruation varies. (Neverminding, of course, several females living together sans birth control will usually menstruate at the same time.)

Methinks menstruation is only really pertains as a means of the female being able to watch over her body's functions.. meaning, if she suddenly stops having her period, there's only a handful of reasons why. Otherwise, the body is functioning well enough to allow her to have her period.

Originally posted by Diseria

For instance, some animals smell blood.. This puts a whole new spin on surviving -- hunkered down in the cave/bunker and all of a sudden a pack of wild, hungry animals are creepin' around? The same issue with birth out in the wild -- the afterbirth must be buried.

This is not an idle concern, nor simply a hygienic one.

ALWAYS bury your bloody stuff if you can't wash it. And make sure you do NOT drip and leave a trail.

Predators do smell blood, track it, and tend to attack 'bleeding' prey.

...Once upon a time I was camping on my period, and not sleeping in a hammock strung up good and high - because a pack of coyotes spent the WHOLE night barking, howling, jumping up and biting and clawing at my butt, trying to get in with me - although I had buried my tampons quite responsibly. ...The coyotes left at dawn; the hammock had a hole; the sleeping bag was fine. It was a memorable night during which I killed a full quart of vodka, having determined that there was not much else I could do.

So ladies, don't listen to the guys. Despite their pretensions, they have NO real idea of the truly important issues.

.

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Ok, I've read through this thread and I thought since I am a woman, I would contribute.

First off, much of what is asking on these forums can be easily googled. However, it is nice to have a community to brainstorm with and discuss experiences so I think this was something valid to bring up.

Also, I started stocking up for my survival kit tonight and in all honesty, I have not thought about menstruation and so I'm glad I read this. I probably would have eventually, but it was a nice reminder nonetheless.

I think the key is something that is not bulky. However, one problem to address is the frequency of changing and cleaning such items. Water would be pretty necessary in such a situation. Hmm, this may be something to look into more for me. I have read about how you can may your own pads, but they'd need to be washed out fairly frequently.

Oh, and in case that one gentleman wasn't answered, yes stress can influence menstruation. So can weight changes and I believe illness if I remember correctly. I believe female athletes have less often periods because their increased training, they increase their use of energy. Thus, their bodies will suppress the energy needed for menstruation and use that for exercise.

In terms of childbirth, some basic medical training does sound like worthwhile knowledge, not only for that but for a whole range of reasons.

Oh, and I saw people mentioning the rhythm method and such. Personally, I would not be concerned with sex if the s**t hit the fan. I would be far more concerned with my survival. Perhaps, I misunderstood what was addressed, I'm not sure. I apologize if I have.

Well, thank you for bringing up this topic, I will add more as I find out more.
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My kits have a combination of feminine type protection.

For long hauls (my larger pack) I have cut up cloth diapers. They pack down and weigh next to nothing, clean up easily and dry quickly.

Stack 'em up and voila - a suitable pad for even a heavy flow. Enough to cover a full two days is best. So you can wear em and wash em and allow them time to dry.

In the smaller packs I have pads and OBs. Enough for one cycle is plenty.

Taking a trip in the wayback machine...the early Native American's used segregation (keeping the menstruating wee-mon folk away from the general population) and a variety of barks stripped down and pounded until supple. Not all that cozy but wood is absorbent and can be washed and dried. They were wrapped in handwoven cloth.

Pregnancy - sex in a situation X is highly likely LMAO...I also stock condoms and have a good years worth of birth control saved up in an emergency three pills taken up to three days after unprotected sex is an effective "morning after". Best way to avoid pregnancy is to abstain (sorry guys)...but seeing as "accidents" and forced situations do occur it's a good idea to have condoms and BC pills on hand.

If you're lucky enough to be able to stay in your home during the fit hitting the shan then stock up as much as you have room for I guess.

As a female who has lived for prolonged periods of time in the "wilderness", I have first hand experience with this subject. 1) They call it "being on the rag" for a reason. My grandmother taught me how to wash out rags I was expected to use for sanitary napkins. Now I use those super absorbent camping towels cut into appropriate sized strips when I'm going to be out for months at a time. Even during a heavy flow, a woman only bleeds a couple of tablespoons a day. Not too much to deal with, really. 2) A quart-sized ziplock bag can hold them until you can get to a water source (if that's an issue). 3) Me and my 5 children can attest to the efficacy of the rhythm method. It may work in theory, however, when you wake up 3 strokes later and your husband/SO is "done", all your good planning, temperature taking, etc. will prove worthless. 4) There is a product called rapex that would prove incredibly discouraging to any male forcing himself on you. Sorry ladies but if SHTF, 150 years of suffrage is going to go down the drain in about 5 minutes. We now have laws to ensure our equality and protection yet those are violated/ignored all the time. Can you imagine if there were no law? (shudder). Learn basic self-defense, pressure points and, ideally, firearms training. 5) There are several herbs/plants that discourage pregnancy and many more that can end one (or keep a difficult one going til term). Abstinence is, of course, the only guaranteed pregnancy prevention but, as mentioned earlier, that choice may not be up to you. 6) Many animals are attracted to the smell of blood. They either think you're wounded or in heat. I like to turn disadvantages into advantages and usually go hunting when I'm on my period. Saves a lot of time "hunting" for the animals-they come to me.
7) one of those fishing vests with all the pockets is all I ever carry. you can live just fine out of what you can pack into those pockets (if you choose wisely). you can still carry a baby wearing one and not be too bogged down (sling carriers for babies). I've even nursed my baby while hiking. Hands free-that's always a plus. 8) I had a midwife with 2 of my pregnancies and delivered at home. One of the main problems encountered in difficult deliveries is bleeding. The placenta is full of oxytocin (natural pitocin) and can be used to stop your bleeding. Dogs and cats eat their placenta. I'm not sure I wouldn't choose death to eating a placenta but a tea can be made from it that works just as well. Hope this helps (and wasn't too much of a culture shock).

One good idea is to take some first aid courses. There's a program in the UK that teaches people how to handle traffic accidents, though there's no certification people report that it helps them to deal with emergencies.

In addition, beware of some things that women don't feel comfortable doing that they need to do in order to cope.

For instance in rape defense they are often squeemish about practicing that 'up close and personal' position that they'll need to know about in order to fight an attacker.

It's tough. We don't want our women to have to deal with things like this, but like the Israelis, they can learn to fight and shoot just as good as a male.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses in different areas. The smart leader learns what the strengths and weakness are and utilizes them to the group’s advantage. Basing tasks on gender roles is a huge mistake.

Today’s society is based on an “it’s all about me” ideal. That will have to stop in any group dynamic. The needs of the group outweigh the needs of the individual. Everyone should know some type of self defense and should practice it often. We should all learn to live with less and take responsibility for our own welfare.

When life as we now know it comes to an end, only the strong and prepared will survive. Being prepared means more than just hoarding food and guns; it means knowing how to make the best of any situation. When the government comes to confiscate your hoard of food and weapons what do you do? This is one reason why so many survivalists are planning on living in hideouts.

There are ways to hide stockpiles. A small but hidden shelter with hidden caches nearby is more ideal than constantly being on the move. Learn how to live under less than hospitable conditions such as areas prone to snow. Most looters will not venture into areas like this. As long as you stay under the radar, the govt will probably leave you alone. Learn to become self reliant.

Tampons have a genuine survival use to them besides the recomended use. They are quite effective at sealing up a bullet or puncture wound. I would recomend having a few in your BOB just for the just in case and if you find a woman on your travels you instantly would be her savior if you had a box with you.

it seems odd to me that if you would be in full on survival mode that you would care all that much that you were menstrating. Seems to me you would have bigger worries on your mind at that point.

Otherwise I bet if you asked women in third world countries (where tampax and stayfree products are in short supply) what they do you could find an alternative.

As for being pregnant. I would say you could go for a while untill late in the third trimester. Then its time to ramp up those nesting insticts. hopefully "daddy" was man enough to stick arround and help. cause realisticly you would need a few weeks to recover after the birth.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
I offer 5 years in practice as evidence. I am also a pretty firm believer that as one's cycle stablizes, in a stable, loving relationship, ovulation will occur around 3 days before first blood.

My auntie ovulated twice a month..

I speak of a time when life had more of a pioneer spirit; when women were the doctors. Times only change through perspective.

Whoever does what will depend on capabilty and skill not gender.

I'm female and I have a very tactical mind. Leaving it to just men to make decisions is a waste of mental resources and therefore very unproductive.

It is not a matter of decisions.

Yeah it is. I would have to decide to obey someone else.. or follow my own judgement. It would depend on the people.

S N A F U

Your brothers arm is missing and the south wall is riddled with bullets and coated in blood. There are men in the streets with masks throwing IED's at the UN vehicles that just made swiss cheese of your home. You hear bombs land not too far off and they leave a loud ringing in your ears.

Are you breathing? Do the wicked see you?

Do. Patch the bloody arm. Gather necessities. Stay in your bunker. Be prepared to move when the pack leader says go.

It seems you did not understand what I said. Not all men make great leaders.. and believe me some men make bloody stupid decisions. I'm not about to follow someone into a mine field.

..that and men these days aren't as 'tough' as the used to be [use it or lose it]. Women should follow their own instincts.

Behind every great man is a great woman. You increase your chances for survival if you and your partner embrace that notion.

No. You increase chances if you use teamwork.

Knowing what you want is important for survivial. Being selfish can be an advantage.. being selfless could lead to being taken advantage of or abuse.

I make a distinction between NEED and WANT.

Being selfish will scar your Soul's rememberance of the Experience. There is no peace in an escape to a guilty conscience.

Being selfish does not have to be at the expense of other people and does not have to be an immoral or distructive thing. It's about not putting yourself last.. unfortuantly females are still taught to do this at the expense of their own welfare.

Watch your P's and Q's. = Watch your mouth.

There are trigger happy andreline pumped men with machine guns lurking; watch your mouth

People just died. In mass. They're everywhere and its disgusting. Have some due respect; watch your mouth.

There is an occupying force on the streets that thinks you want them there to protect you; watch your mouth.

Loud voices carry and will give away location; watch your mouth.

Everyone around you is stressed, don't stir the poo; watch your mouth.

Yet you feel you explain to us poor naive women to watch our mouths.. because obviously we wouldn't understand that noise carries.. verbally abusing people with guns would probably be a bad thing and of course we wouldn't know how to respect the dead.

There is a reason the crazy towel heads in the warzone make their women wear burka.

from wikipedia for hajib (cover/veil/screen/shelter)

a woman should cover her body, and walk and dress in a way which does not draw sexual attention to her

I am,

Sri Oracle

[Towel heads? ]
Wardobe choice [unless it's a chastity belt] will not make a shred of difference.. I'm quite sure the burka has not prevented rape. They are not interested in sexual attraction.. they are interested in brutal violence. I also suspect wearing things like burka's etc. would probably be very impractical/dangerous while running for your life.. as would spiked heals. Little point in preventing rape via clothes if you trip over them while escaping.
Want to cut the risk of rape? Safety in numbers.. don't wonder off/be tricked into being alone and make sure you can defend yourself physically if you have to. Keep your guared up and carry a weapon. Walk tall and proud.. if you act like a defensless little bunny rabbit you'll be hunted like one.

[edit on 29-12-2006 by riley]

In a survival situation I am going to trust the person that I think has the most intelegent idea, Man or Woman. Doesnt matter to me. humans no matter what gender have the capability to be intelegent or dumb.

So in a survival situation I am going to trust the woman that says "keep your head down" when there is gunfire going on other thain the man that says "charge!"

Course men often forget how cunning and sneeky women can be. Women have the unique ability to flirt their way into getting a resource that they need and the cunning to get said resource without giving up much of anything. An example of this is how many times has a man successfully flirted their way out of a speeding ticket and vice versa? Ive tried it I just get strainge looks from the cop when he hands me the ticket.

All in all it doesnt matter who is leading the group as long as that leader can keep their head, focus on the objectives and survive in any given situation.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle


We must be infertile.

Not infertile, but your timing is wrong. Infertility is the physical inability to get pregnant. You just need a calendar, a thermometer and the correct information.

Our schedule is 7 on... and then off again until after next menstration. Be it a total of 28 days or 40 for a full cycle.

40 days? Your cycle begins the day you get your period, that is day number 1. Your period is not additional days outside of the non-bleeding days. The length of your cycle is the day you get your period to the day before you start bleeding again.

We're pretty consistant 28-32. I am a pretty firm believer that no woman ovulates within the first seven. I offer 5 years in practice as evidence. I am also a pretty firm believer that as one's cycle stablizes, in a stable, loving relationship, ovulation will occur around 3 days before first blood.

A stable loving relationship has nothing to do with the length or regularity of one's period. And ovulation does not occur 3 days before "first blood" in the major majority of women. You are wrong.

There is just something in here eyes during that time that says "I'm ready to make babies". But we're holding off on that right now; until we are in a better "place".

If you are looking in her eyes you're looking in the wrong place. Your romantic, swishy view of women's reproductive processes is not only wrong but really irritating. I suggest when her "eyes" and your "place" are aligned you run to the book store and buy a copy of "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" by Toni Wexler. Because right now your lack of knowledge is your own best birth control.

Behind every great man is a great woman.

Behind every great woman is a great mother.

Cover up the body? ...I'm assuming this is an effort to keep warm?

Innocence is indeed beautiful.

Isn't your wife going to have a hard time moving around in that burka? Why do you assume the rest of us will be dressed like Britney Spears at a night club?

a woman should cover her body, and walk and dress in a way which does not draw sexual attention to her

I don't spend 5 hours a week on a treadmill and 2 hours strength training to cover myself from head to toe and I don't dress like a prostitue either. When the SHTF I'll dress according to the weather, my activities for the day, and what is least dirty. I will not dress according to your misguided, ancient, macho criteria.

I am amazed in this so called enlightened world that there is still an attitude of women inferiority.

UGH you women stupid shut up, me man know best.

That is not the type of attitude you want to incourage

Give me a break. Women are not stupid women are not inferior, especially compared to males. The roles of the past were wrong to begin with and all stem from women being laid up for a time after child birth, and essentially being helpless for a short while and needing to be taken care of.

This thread has done two things for me. One is to irritate me to no end about the attitude some still have twords women. and two pointed out yet another thing My wife and I had missed in our Many BOB's

In defense thow my wife only menstruates once a year. been that way all her life. Still thow we've managed to carry two children full term but unfortunately had several miscarriages so the parts still work to a point.

Originally posted by stanstheman

Behind every great man is a great woman.

Behind every great woman is a great mother.

Very true.

Don't you just love his idea of being honoured vicariously as men take credit for your work and ideas? they've been using that one for centuries.. I think there are probably many great writers and artists who's wives actually did the work while they made a name for themelves.

When the SHTF I'll dress according to the weather, my activities for the day, and what is least dirty. I will not dress according to your misguided, ancient, macho criteria.

Likewise.. and I'll make sure I've got a decent pair of boots and hat. I'm baffled as to why he'd be worried about our modesty. Who's going to worry about finding their favourite lipstick when they're looking for decent drinking water?

cause realisticly you would need a few weeks to recover after the birth.

This depends on the woman. Some are laid up for weeks, others are up and walking within hours.

There are at least a few cultures that come to mind where the women are up and moving very shortly after birth -- by necessity, otherwise they get left behind (re: nomadic groups).

my wife only menstruates once a year.

Lucky woman!!!

I used to menstruate once every 3 months before birth control... *sigh*

Course men often forget how cunning and sneeky women can be. Women have the unique ability to flirt their way into getting a resource that they need and the cunning to get said resource without giving up much of anything.

Cunning and sneaky is one thing.
Flirting is quite another.
In a dangerous situation, or potentially dangerous, I'm not going for flirty.. I'm going for cunning and sneaky. If we're talking about trying to avoid rape, flirting ain't the answer.

Indeed - a sport bra or gauze might be more useful... to hell with the burka, strap yourself down and look like a man. (Finally, androgeny comes in useful!!) Times are truly tough when a guy goes for another guy...