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Originally posted by AbuMusaab
They don't want to learn, nor do they attempt to understand. As long as you do not take away their hamburgers and "Desperate Housewives," they are happy.
Sometimes jarring events need to occur to wake someone from their woefully ignorant slumber.
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
And to your comment about "peace." Peace is the goal, but this is war. Propping up and supporting dictatorships in Islamic countries is a form of oppression.
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
The Taliban did not implement true Shar'iah, so do not look to them for the example. True Shar'iah has existed in the past, where Jews, Christians, and Muslims all lived together in harmony throughout the middle east. Those times have come and gone, and the west is directly responsible for the current governments that are in place in many of the countries of that region. Iran is a shining example of the results you could look forward to seeing as a result of your policies. (the Shah)
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
The House of Saud is first on the list.
Pakistan.
Jordan.
The secular army of Turkey.
The puppets in Iraq.
The puppets in Afghanistan.
The Zionists in Palestine.
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
Peace is the goal, but not achievable in the current situation. After the situation becomes resolved, insha'Allah, then we will see peace.
Until then...
[edit on 5-1-2007 by AbuMusaab]
Originally posted by stumasonI understand what you say about propping up Governments, but at the end of the day, it is the peoples responsibilty to overthrow them if they are that bad. Instead of attacking the West, why not focus the attention on those regimes themselves? We won't intervene to stop the overthrow's.
The first three are a possibility. You stand no chance in Turkey, not one iota. The next two, well, time will tell but I suspect the poo will hit the fan. As for Israel, I too would like to see it gone, but not in favour of a Muslim state. There should be a secular state there were all are equal, not either way.
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
I am not advocating the actual physical destruction of the USA, just the economical.
Originally posted by DJMessiah
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
I am not advocating the actual physical destruction of the USA, just the economical.
Is it your belief that only the government will be effected by this? Surely, it will destroy not only people's way of life, but their means for sufficiency. How many elderly, cripple, and needy people do you think rely on the government to care for them? Now imagine if the economy was destroyed, and then tell me what multitude this number will reach. You're advocating the formation of a nationwide pandemic of poverty. This is not something that Islam will ever advocate. If anything, we must strive to diminish poverty.
"You shall not attain righteousness until you spend out of what you love (in the way of Allah). Allah knows whatever you spend." (Quran 3:92)
Originally posted by stumason
But, allowing the overthrows to take place would be much more peaceful and they would still have to sell the Oil to someone....
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
Maybe if America spent it's money on taking care of the unfortunate, instead of creating unfortunate situations for other people.
Besides poverty in America has a different definition than in other countries. Poverty in America is not being able to eat meat everyday, and not having a television.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
so burn the middle east to the ground?
you know, we could just provide aid to the nations in trouble, using soft power
damn, why does everything have to be military?
soft power can be just as effective
if we rid the middle east of excessive poverty, it'll help
and probably be cheaper
Originally posted by Rockpuck
Someone chalenges you to a fight, hit em hard. real hard.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
UMmmm
What about the Middle East leaders BILLIONS OF FREAKIN DOLLARS??????
Ohh.. Lets give money to Iran! .. and Saudi Arabia.. and Sudan... because .. what? .. they don't have any???????
You do know that almost no Middle East country (oil producing) do not tax their citizens, and if they do it is fractions of what we pay. Why is that? .. because the federal government is so rich they pay for everything.
If you want to get into the economic structure of the ME that can be another thread of a ME history class at your local college because it would be off topic. Just know that it is not the worlds, not even Britian or America's fault that the ME cannot produce a high tech economy out of the deserts, nor is it our fault that the ME's oil supplies actually prevents democracy from working the way it should, prevents economic growth.
But YOU can go on living in the magical world of yours where you say "I like you, I don't mind your differences, and I want peace!" .. and the other guy says "Sure!" ... what a ... peachy.. reality. If only it worked like that.
Someone chalenges you to a fight, hit em hard. real hard.
Originally posted by stumason
Well, i do not believe for one minute that either the US or the UK, or anyone for that matter, would dare to interven in the case of an overthrow in any gulf state.
For the simple reason we know what that will bring, ie; another Iraq. Do you honestly think the US would intervene if the Saudi people rose up against the Monarchy? I doubt it very much...
But, allowing the overthrows to take place would be much more peaceful and they would still have to sell the Oil to someone....
i talk about ending poverty in the middle east and you bring up the upper elites
when did i talk about giving money to any of those countries?
i simply said END POVERTY
never said "give those countries money"
BUT the PEOPLE are poor
well, we did set up the oil supply structure in most or all of these countries....
you know, after we dissolved the ottoman empire in ww1
um, so compromise is something found only in a magical fantasy world?
yeah
okay
let's have the champion prize fighter attack a loud chihuahua
honestly, the majority of the muslim world isn't challenging anyone to a fight
less than 1% is
Originally posted by Rockpuck
As I said you have to understand the economics of the region: Desert. Their economy is based on one product, and because it is based on one product the economy is stunted, and because they are in the middle of the desert there is little you can do with the land that they do have.
Right.... so we will hand out money to other nations citizens?....... riight...
there are also poor Americans, poor Canadians ... poverty does not cause terrorism?? Where in the world did you think that up?
That's our fault that they are to incompitant to run their own countries??? Riiight..
Um, compromise? .. That would require 2 or more parties my friend. To say you want peace and your enemy does not, it would be unwise to lay down your gun.
If you understood how a state acts, it does not act like a rational human being, it acts as a state for it's own survival. If a nation is challenged and attacked and if it does not respond in the strongest way possible it has already failed.
1% .. I would guess around 70%... the West is not to popular over there see. Well I guess you wouldn't see, as you think we can all be friends regardless of our differences.
Originally posted by southern_cross3
Even if you weren't incredibly annoying just for posting all in italic print, I'm shocked at your apparent support of Saddam.
Yeah, he held the country down. A dictator's gotta do what a dictator's gotta do, you seem to think. Drop men feet-first into fish shredders for amusement. Torture the opposition in prisons that would be too graphic for a horror movie. Decapitate dinner guests, then make their families mop up the mess. Gang rape daughters in front of their families, or merely kidnap them and use them for entertainment, while the family suffers from not knowing where their daughter is. Cut the tongues out of those who have spoken out against the regime. Chain men to the wall and then slowly cut off their genitals as their wives and family are forced to watch. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
You're either incredibly ignorant or an incredible sicko. Wake up, already.
You're either incredibly ignorant or an incredible sicko. Wake up, already.
Originally posted by southern_cross3
Looks like I won't be able to continue in the conversation, as the moderator Umbrax, in an act of incredible ignorance and censorship, has warned me for the post that I just quoted.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
'modify' itself?
what's wrong with MAINSTREAM islam?sure, radicals need to change, but that's not so much an issue of islam as an issue of really ignorant people
are you saying the west needs to go to war with the religion of islam?
in what way?
ed, you're being awfully vague
care to elaborte?
Originally posted by edsinger
I believe that if they did want to speak out they cant due to the fear that they themsleves will be killed, nice huh?