purpose of disinformation

What do you think of the take on Roswell and alien-government interaction in THE TRUTH ABOUT UFOS AND ALIENS? That booklet rejects Corso, Brown, Lazar, Cooper and a host of others as deceivers. I couldn't agree more that Brown, for example, is full of it but what do you make of the claim that the nonsense in COSMIC YOYAGE had a definite purpose? And the alleged purpose of the disinformation in other works, like the briefing document?

Hi... if you could post some links so we could check out what you mean, that would be great.

The thing about Lazar is he was saying stuff about an island of stable elements grouped around 115 long before anyone else. It seems to be gaining ground, so perhaps one should give his story a little more weight.

For me, belief is always relative, and never total, one way or the other. One thing I am relatively committed to is the idea that disinformation is out there, and is designed, among other things, to discredit specific pieces of information by surrounding them with lies.

Plus, I don't believe that institutions, such as the "national security state" are monolithic. They are made up of individuals, some of whom will not necessarily share all the goals and ideals of the institution. Therefore leaks happen and this causes more disinformation.

I think Bill Cooper was sincere. I think Lazar was sincere. I think Corso was sincere but old and perhaps inclined to exaggerate his closeness to the centre of things.

I don't know who Brown was and I'd like to know.a More details please.

I think that people like John Lear and Steven Greer are sincere, but may themselves be the unwitting victims of disinformation dog-and-pony shows. They have relatively high profiles and it would therefore be good if they could be used to disseminate information calculated to divert attention from specific areas or to make the imparters of that information look foolish.

For myself, I look at this as threads of narrative which outline various stories. This is, after all, what we do as human beings. We interpret the world through stories. Occasionally those stories are written in languages like mathematics which have internal consistencies that can be checked, but they are stories nonetheless.

One can therefore keep track of different narrative threads and see if any make predictions that turn out to be independently confirmed later in the day. If so, they therefore get slightly higher credibility ratings, though of course one is open to the possibility that elements within the story may have been planted to debunk or divert.

It's a great big fluid world out there.

Originally posted by rich23
Hi... if you could post some links so we could check out what you mean, that would be great.

I don't think there are any. The only source for the above post was the booklet The Truth about UFOs and Aliens.

The thing about Lazar is he was saying stuff about an island of stable elements grouped around 115 long before anyone else. It seems to be gaining ground, so perhaps one should give his story a little more weight.

You mean physicists accept his claim on that? Friedman sure didn't.

One thing I am relatively committed to is the idea that disinformation is out there, and is designed, among other things, to discredit specific pieces of information by surrounding them with lies.

That's sure the view expressed in the booklet but I don't know if its take is original in all cases. It may be.

I think Bill Cooper was sincere. I think Lazar was sincere. I think Corso was sincere but old and perhaps inclined to exaggerate his closeness to the centre of things.

The author of the aforementioned work begs to differ. He views them as deliberate deceivers acting on government initiative.

I don't know who Brown was and I'd like to know.a More details please.

You never heard of Courtney Brown, author of COSMIC YOYAGE and COSMIC EXPLORERS? The author of THE TRUTH ABOUT UFOS AND ALIENS considers the books pure junk but with a definite deceptive purpose.

Originally posted by star07
I don't think there are any. The only source for the above post was the booklet The Truth about UFOs and Aliens.

Well without seeing the arguments in that book we have little to base a debate on, which stalls things somewhat. I also have to say that any booklet that has the word "truth" in its title is somewhat suspect as far as I'm concerned. There's so many stories out there and so little to go on, to start throwing the word "truth" around seems rather premature.

You mean physicists accept his claim on that? Friedman sure didn't.

I think, as I say, it's gaining ground as an idea. Some websites I've seen are keen on the idea, some pooh-pooh it. Until a real consensus emerges, I'm happy not to commit myself.

I think Bill Cooper was sincere. I think Lazar was sincere. I think Corso was sincere but old and perhaps inclined to exaggerate his closeness to the centre of things.

The author of the aforementioned work begs to differ. He views them as deliberate deceivers acting on government initiative.

Without any argument or evidence to back this up, all we have is the word of a booklet I can't get hold of against my impression. I'm happy to be corrected on stuff, but it doesn't mean I'm just going to take some guy's word for it without understanding WHY he says what he's saying. You need to precis his argument so we can thrash this out.

You never heard of Courtney Brown, author of COSMIC YOYAGE and COSMIC EXPLORERS?

No. I'm sure there are many people I've heard of that you haven't. Makes no difference. Had you provided a first name I could have Googled him and found out some stuff for myself. Without a first name, I'm not going to bother.

If you look around the boards you'll find that people often link to articles on the net so that discussions can progress. It's a habit you might care to cultivate a little, as it helps others understand where you're coming from.

The author of THE TRUTH ABOUT UFOS AND ALIENS considers the books pure junk but with a definite deceptive purpose.

Well that's nice but without a little more in-depth discussion of the reasons why this is so, this discussion goes nowhere.

[edit on 29-12-2006 by rich23]

OK, having done a little reading around - which would have been a lot easier if enough information had been given in the OP - it looks as if, at the least, Brown was the victim of a disinfo program. Reading Martin Gardner's review of Cosmic Voyage was actually quite helpful because he posts the book's claims almost without comment, as their "preposterous" nature (his word) is self-evident.

What is clear is that Brown was involved with Project Stargate, and Joseph McMoneagle, another associate of that project, describes similar impressions with regard to Mars, although I can't remember if he RV'd the Martians in the remote past or not.

It's not impossible that Brown was set up to run against McMoneagle, whose testimony is certainly interesting, and whose experimental RV protocol addresses issues of "front-loading" raised by critics of Brown's method.

It's also interesting that he was involved in the Hale-Bopp thing. If you look more closely into what happened with the Heaven's Gate crowd, there seems to have been CIA involvement in that, as with the Jonestown massacre decades earlier.

There is no question that the CIA was involved in mind control experiments, most notably in project MK-ULTRA, but back in the seventies when it was first being investigated they destroyed much of their data. That it should still be going on should come as no surprise to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the history of that agency.

My impression is that Brown is gullible rather than a deliberate disinfo agent, but I haven't read the book, which would tell me rather more.

I doubt Brown was a victim but a willing collaborator, like many others. He'd have to be retarded to believe that stuff in his book e.g. an indigenous Martian civilization. Or it's hard to believe any educated, intelligent person in this day and age would believe it.
Btw there'a little info on the net about the booklet THE TRUTH ABOUT UFOS AND ALIENS. See www.publishamerica.com... and search. There are a few reviews of it there and one in the November issue of FATE, though the latter doesn't mention its intriguing take on Roswell and subsequent matters.

[edit on 30-12-2006 by star07]

You have voted rich23 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I will let my vote do most of the talking for me. Suffice to say, I'm very much in agreement with your posts in this thread. The manner in which you present this information is both concise and thorough.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
I'm very much in agreement with your posts in this thread.

I just don't buy his suggestion that Corso and Brown were victims of disinformation schemes. I think they were paid or bribed to cooperate in such schemes. I reiterate that much of what they wrote is so dubious it is hard to believe anyone with a modicum of sophistication would believe it.