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2008 Conservative Presidential Candidates

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posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 03:58 AM
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Beware of complacency


First, Russia. Yes, they have lots of oil. But they also have lots of COLD. Russia’s food growing capacity is limited by their geography.


Siberia contains vast amounts of natural resources that both China and India are or will be thirsty for. Despite corruption being an obstacle China will look to invest in Siberia. Siberia will kind of like be what like Australia is to Japan the supplier of natural resources and in return Japan exports the likes of Cars to Australia. Watch the development of GM food closely China is already on such things in order to cut down there reliance on imported food.


China has even less fossil fuels resources than the US. Regrettably, China has neglected to protect its rivers and air so now everything is in jeopardy because of uninhibited pollution and uncontrolled environmental degradation.


The natural resources China requires are in Siberia and with China sharing a land border with Russia the country is less susceptible to economic blockade then Japan was in WW2. China down fall could come from self inflicted damage to the environment I would assume China leaders would soon wake up to this fact in the near future but the fate of the Yangtze River dolphin seems to indicate other wise.

The full effects of the rise of the middle class in India wont be felt for a generation. Just wait and what happens when the children of help desk operators emerge properly feed and with opportunities there parents didn't have. As for the USA much like they did in the Cold War the US is taking the the burden of the War on Terror. I'm not aware of political leaders in China, Russia or India who are fiscal lunatics like there US counter parts. If the recent bridge collapse proves anything it is that the vast amounts of money being spend isnt going where it should.

The US and the Western world faces two other problems the War on Terror is being fought while the allies are still on a peace time footing. The US is in a leadership draught there aren't any Marshall , Eisenhower , MacArthur's or FDR around. After all it did take four years for the right man to be put in charge of fighting the war in Iraq.
In fact US leaders squandered wide spread global public support with the insane war in Iraq. It is vitally important that such public support and confidence is restored in the US and around the world.



[edit on 18-8-2007 by xpert11]




posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 09:35 AM
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posted by xpert11
As for the USA much like they did in the Cold War the US is taking on the burden of the War on Terror. The War on Terror is being fought while the allies are still on a peace time footing. In fact US leaders squandered wide spread global public support with the insane war in Iraq. It is vitally important that such public support and confidence is restored in the US and around the world.


1) “WoT.” B43's so-called ‘War on Terror’ was a spur of the moment publicity gimmick conjured to save a failing presidency. Seven months, three weeks into his presidency the nation was shocked by the Nine Eleven Event. It was becoming more apparent that B43 had no viable program for the nation and was distressingly short on personal talent. B43's first official act after the Supreme Court designated him to be president was to give away the projected Federal surplus by tax cuts for the Rich and Famous. R&Fs. That in conformity with the 'Reagan Doctrine' that the rich should not pay taxes.

The DJIA had already begun to react unfavorably to impending Federal deficit financing. Borrowing by the Federal government takes money out of the bond market otherwise available for investment. That in turn raises the interest rate on commercial borrowers, which discourages borrowing and restricts investment in new jobs, ultimately lowing tax revenues, and etc.

Outsiders must look on the “2001 WoT” in the context of America’s 1941 War on Crime. Its 1964 War on Poverty. And don’t forget its 1970 War on Drugs. American’s love a good war! It is the simplest way to organize the public and keep their minds OFF more pressing matters. Like health care, education and infrastructure. Darn those inconsiderate bridges! As you may have noticed, NONE of those earlier War’s have succeeded. Yet we continue mindlessly to wage them all. Well, not so much the war on poverty, because that is a gift from GOD. (Jesus said ‘the poor you shall always have’). Republicans don’t give a hoot about the poor. They are GOD’s blessing.

“The Long War.” Title of a speech by US General Lance Smith, NATO Supreme Commander for Transformation. (GOD don’t we love titles?) On April 18, 2007, at Old Dominion University, Virginia. Part of the 400th anniversary celebration of the founding of the first permanent English settlement (when I was a child we said “white settlement”) in the New World at Jamestown, 1607. The General begins by reciting the motives WE have assigned - attributed - to al Qaeda and similar terrorist organizations. Memorize them, they are our NEW Mantra! Your NEW cause celebre. For a lifetime? Here follows General Smith's litany straight out of Berlin's 1930s-40s Joseph Goebbels School of Propaganda. Reason 1) Hate of the West. Reason 2) Hate of the United States. Reason 3) Hate of the Free Market. And Reason 4) Hate of democracy.

Contrast this (B43) list of JUSTIFICATION for a LONG war, with the list furnished by Osama bin Laden. No. 1) Infidel intrusion into the Holy Sites of Arabia. No. 2) Imposition of Jewish people into Arab Palestine No. 3) installation and support of despotic Arab regimes that impoverish the people and steal the natural resources. No. 4) Export of our damnable culture into the Muslim world.

Without commenting on the MERITS of either list, which list seems to be the more probable?

Let me point out we cannot afford the kind of response Bush43, VP Cheney and Company have designed for a criminal act against us. Yes, our pride was injured. Yes, it was even more than pride, it was our innocence (or ignorance) taken away from us by al Qaeda. It was brought home to Americans how vulnerable we were here in the US.

We generally paid not a whit of concern over the 100s of dead in the Horn of Africa countries, nor for that matter, anywhere in the world. We had after all, killed by our own count 700,000 Vietnamese in a futile war. 95% of those killed belonged to that class we so DEARLY love to bemoan, the so-called “innocents.” They - NVA - say it was 3,000,000 but regardless we call all that “collateral damage.” Besides, did not we ourselves determine at Dresden and Hiroshima there are NO innocents in a war? Today’s infant will be tomorrow’s suicide bomber. Hmm?

[edit on 8/18/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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Don the problem with your argument is that Islamic extremism is a global threat rather then just a threat to the US. The threat exits in places such as Indonesia and the Philippines. Your logic would have a hard time explaining the Bali bombings and besides there is the issue of believing a word that people who crash planes into buildings and behead people say. Every sort of extremist group or regimes has to have its enemy's the Nazis had the Jews and Islamic extremists have western society has there enemy.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 08:58 PM
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posted by xpert11
Don the problem with your argument is that Islamic extremism is a global threat rather then just a threat to the US. The threat exits in places such as Indonesia and the Philippines. Your logic would have a hard time explaining the Bali bombings and besides there is the issue of believing a word that people who crash planes into buildings and behead people say. Every sort of extremist group or regimes has to have its enemy's the Nazis had the Jews and Islamic extremists have western society has there enemy.


You’re begging the question, Islamic Extremists. We - say Bush43 et al - have made those words into a CODE. Pavlov’s dog. Ring a bell. Say “Islamic Extremists” and your audience immediately conjures their worst nightmare, their worst enemy. Those who saw it on tv will ever forget the airplanes crashing into the WTC. Followed shortly by the creme de la creme of terrorists acts, the falling down of the two tallest buildings in America! It’s so easy for the manipulators. The CODE word was Communists, 1945=1991, but heck, they’ve all died. At least the bad ones. Now it’s Islamic Extremists. Bush43 and VP Cheney have alternatively called this a PERPETUAL war and a war for generations! Convenient isn’t it? It sure beats thinking!

According to US General Lance Smith, 1) They hate the West. 2) They hate America. 3) They hate the Free Market? (That’s an odd thing for a camel rider to hate?) And 4) They hate democracy. (Another one that seems very out of place for Arabs). THIS LIST OF CAUSES DOES NOT RING TRUE TO ME.

I for one don’t want a second half-century long war! I want to talk to my adversaries to see what accommodations we can reach. We did wrong in 1922. We did wrong in 1943. We did wrong in1948. We did wrong in 1953. Now we are asked to pay for those mistakes and we don’t like it one bit! Although I don’t believe one word he wrote, the title of Mark Lane’s famous book is apropos,“Rush To Judgment!”

We cannot afford this ‘West of the Pecos’ style of kicking-back. We have not found OBL after 6 years and a name-your-price reward in gold! What does that tell you? A) We aren’t looking. B) His followers won’t turn on him. We’ve wasted 10s of billions so far in Afghan and Iraq. Halliburton is robbing us blind. We are throwing money away at the rate of $12 b. a month. Did you ever think that if we GAVE that $12 b. to the 4 million heads of household in Iraq, about $3,000 a month each, the FREE Market - if there was or is such a thing - would fix all of Iraq problems and stop the killing of 5-10,000 Iraqi a month!

We must stop fighting DUMB and being to ACT smart.

[edit on 8/18/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 02:28 AM
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On a side note, I'd like to let you guys know that I have advanced to the second round of the official 2007 ATS Debates. Click the link if you want to see what the questions are, and who my competition is. We are about to start Round Two.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by donwhite
 



Code word ?
The threat from Islamic extremism is very real and I cant help escaping the conclusion that you are letting your political views get in the way of this fact. I doubt that anyone I know would have wanted the War on Terror but after the events of 9-11 it became clear that such an action became necessary. It is unfortunate that Bush was and is in office but there is nothing we can do about. The only political party in NZ to oppose that and still dose oppose NZ involvement in Afghanistan is the Greens.

Let me set some things straight .
The War on Terror is necessary.
Spoon feeding US corporate interests isnt required.
It is true that the US and its allies need to smarten up the free world cant afford any more blunders like we have seen in Iraq.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 03:17 AM
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After B43 is out of office the world of civilized nation needs to take a stance against radical islamists, and united together for the mission of establishing a way of life in the middle-east that lasts longer then a regine change. IF that can be done, that is a goal.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 09:20 AM
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posted by TKainZero
After B43 is out of office the world of civilized nation needs to take a stance against radical Islamists, and united together for the mission of establishing a way of life in the middle-east that lasts longer then a regime change. IF that can be done, that is a goal.


I read this sadly, Mr TKO. With great sadness. Where in the Holy Heck is it said WE are to be in charge of REGIME changes? Who gave us this MISSION to go 6,000 miles east of W-DC, and establish a WAY OF LIFE? One like we have in W-DC, for example? How many murders were there in W-DC last year? Politics aside, how many were there in Baghdad in 1990? That’s the last year before American interference began. Or Damascus? Or Amman, Jordan? Gun violence is endemic in the United States thanks in large part to the NRA. Guns DO kill, despite the trite, cutesy saying to the contrary.

Iraq is 6,000 years old. The US is 400 years old. Do you think we know more about life than the Iraqi? Our technology is more efficient at killing then theirs. That’s about all I know of that we are ahead of them in. That does not make us smarter. It just makes us ‘bad-er.’

Anyone who resists our economic domination is called a RADICAL. Of one kind or another. Do you now how many times the US has invaded countries south of the Rio Grande since 1789? We have invaded Haiti at least 4 times, and we occupied Haiti from 1918 to 1933, yet it remains the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. Why is that? Is that what American hegemony means?

Look about you. Recall if you can, all the nasty things we said about Vietnam before they ran us out in 1975. Us fleeing off the roof of our armored embassy. Why do we need armored embassies around the world? Because we are so much LOVED? Wake up, Sir. You are being spoon fed a BILL OF GOODS.

[edit on 8/19/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


We are talking about what we CAN do in Iraq, not what we SHOULD have done. The fact is we are in Iraq, and we probaly shouldn't have gone in with major ground forces... give me the facts about the murder rates in Iraq and such, then tell me the deaths imposed upon the citizens by the goverment.

IN response to the respect of regine change, i want the goverment of Iraq to last, now that we have thrown out Saddam and we don't have a choice other wise but to to have demoracy in Iraq, i how that they go on and have many election, rather then to be ruled by Ahmendemeihad and Iran, which is what would happen if all our force were to withdrawn from Iraq tommorow.

Now on the account that the civislation of the messopotamia being over 6000 years old, give me one good thing that has come out of the middle east and middle east culture in the last 1000 years, im not trying to be mean here, but you have a culture that is trying to act like it is still in the middle ages , with views that are incompatible with the modern/western world, now what means is thier culture is incompatible with the western world, Isreal was the first step in teh westernation of the middle east and Iraq is the ill-started next step started by the beloved B43, but make no mistake America will land an her feet, for she is not yet even 300 years old, and her riehn is not near over.

But please correct me, I do not know everything, i was not alive during the Vietnam war, but as far as I can see we did not lose one military skirmish in that war either, only the politicians made us turn and run. People from all over the world come to America to enjoy the freedoms this country provides, so don't try to say things about this country, even when this country is at thier lowest, and run by the sickest scum of te earth, it will pass, thats how this country works, thats why we are so great, and no matter what anyone says this country has not be taken over by a dictatorship ever... Even though we fight people that have no reguard for life, we extend to them fair rules of war, while they disreguard them.



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 10:45 PM
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A friend of mine sent me a rough cut of a political ad he is working on. In this ad, he uses paralell images taken from Iraq and Vietnam. I mus say that he's done an excellent job of picking his footage and synchronizing the images. I am NOT looking forward to seeing the GOP get smeared with mud of its own making, but how do the Republicans counter these images when they hit the t.v.?



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 02:35 AM
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Well at this stage there doesn't look like there will be a defence to such ads . IMO the Republican party will have to resort to the trick of diverting attention away from Iraq and onto other issues that they can sell as being important. Really the Republicans should be focusing on domestic issues and putting America first. But the Republicans seem to be getting beaten on domestic issues they have no effective counter to the dems plans for universal health care. What is happening to the Republican party is what happened to the allies in the first four months of 1942 there being beaten and driven back everywhere.

Edit: Judging by the recent comments from military and civilian it looks like that the Republican party is just going to have to take the hit from the Iraq war. See this thread . The Republican party's problems are all self inflicted.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by xpert11]



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 11:17 AM
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You may very well be right. The GOP could own up to their blunders, and own them outright so that it would be harder for the Dems to shame them. My hope is that after 8-12 years in the wilderness, they will get back to basics.

I looked at that ad again this morning, and its going to be hard to beat. I don't like seeing my preferred politicla party getting hurt like this, but some times pain is the only thing politicians understand.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 08:18 PM
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2004 was the last chance the Republican party had to get themselves out of the hole they had dug.
Two things could have happened.


  1. Bush could declined the chance to run for re election just like LBJ famously did.
  2. Bush could have replaced his entire cabinet as well as his VP.


So why didn't either of these options happen .
Well the first option can be put down to hindsight which is always 20/20 as well as the timing of the invasion of Iraq. In 2004 the American was still living on another plant and the political effects the Republicans connecting the Iraq war to national security and patriotism had yet to be felt. So unlike LBJ the Bush admin still had some breathing room and they benefited from the fact that the Dems ran a poor campaign and made a questionable choice of candidate.

It is harder to explain why the second option didn't and I was expecting something like that to happen at the time. The only explanation I can think is that Bush and his advisor's believed there own fantasy that they spun. Also you can have some many people resigning to spend time with family or to work in the private sector before people will start to ask question that would be politically hard to answer.

Still making a fresh start and using Bush post 9-11 leadership , the progress that had been made in Afghanistan (progress in Afghanistan hadn't quiet stalled yet ) and preparing and asking the American people for support in a counter insurgency war in Iraq would have been the way to go.



posted on Aug, 24 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Julian Oldham: A friend of mine sent me a rough cut of a political ad he is working on. In this ad, he uses parallel images taken from Iraq and Vietnam. I mus say that he's done an excellent job of picking his footage and synchronizing the images. I am NOT looking forward to seeing the GOP get smeared with mud of its own making, but how do the Republicans counter these images when they hit the t.v.?


Yesterday I heard one announcer say that Pres. Bush was comparing Iraq and Vietnam. I did not hear how he did that. Can you fill me in, Mr J/O?



posted on Aug, 24 2007 @ 06:19 PM
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Mr. Bush was making the case that millions would suffer if we pulled out of Iraq in the same way that millions suffered when we pulled out of Vietnam. I'm not sure I would have used THAT analogy when picking from the Vietnam vignets. He alluded to the fact that our prestige would take a hit if we pulled out before the job was done. I'm not so sure that his 'message' was well received.



posted on Aug, 24 2007 @ 06:45 PM
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Don check out this thread for a discussion on Bush speech . Really Bush makes these speeches to connect with those who still support the war in Iraq. One of the few things I can be certain of is that Bush isnt going to make a speech or series of speeches that turn public opinion around , Republican party fortunes and his own poll numbers.

But that's not the worst of it for Bush survival instincts are kicking in and Bush is slowly being abandoned by flip flopping Republicans. For more on this matter see this thread .

[edit on 24-8-2007 by xpert11]



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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So, does Bush43 leave office in disgrace like LBJ? or, does he leave office under a cloud like Carter?



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


The answer to that question is subjective but I will still bring my 10 cents to the table .
Well that is like having to chose between drowning and being burnt to death. In all fairness Truman left office with record low poll numbers and is now remembered as one of the better presidents. But to answer your question IMO for better or worse Iraq will be Bush legacy and on this matter he will leave office under a cloud because the troop surge will have ensure that Iraq becomes someone else's problem.

Bush attempts to put the oval office above the law even if it is a stalling tactic should be seen as disgraceful and if it isnt stopped the tone could be set for the future. After all its OK because someone else has done it is seen as a legit defence and as a way of making everything OK in some peoples eyes.

[edit on 25-8-2007 by xpert11]



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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Listening to Huckabee...

Does anyone else find it ironic that this guy gives the same canned speech/answers whenever and wherever he's interviewed -- yet the highlight of it is how "unscripted" he is?



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 03:05 AM
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I think that djohn is right about Huckabee. He's done a very good job of staying on message. Trouble is, he's a one trick pony. He's got that message of his down pat. As a trained public speaker in my own right, I think its high praise when anyone says you're unscripted. Do you notice that he doesn't go off the reservation very often, and when he does...he flubs? That's the sign of a guy who follows orders better than he gives them.



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