2008 Conservative Presidential Candidates

So far, as a christian, there is not a choice for us to vote for.

In as much as Bush is a devoted Christian, I think he's rubbed too many peole the wrong way. It'll be a long time before we see another President of any stripe be so open and so forceful about his/her religion. The hard right didn't do itself any favors over the last six years by encouraging Mr. bush to ram through so many of the initiatives that he favored. Too much of anything is bad for you, and I'm sad to see that the Republicans have proven that. It'l cost them dearly in '08.

There are two issues at hand.
The first issue at hand is what a large percentage of the Republican base has come to demand and accept as the Christian way. The Christian way involves bashing gays , ID and outlawing abortion as well as seeing gay hookers and under age persons of the same sex.

The second issue is tied in with the first in order to keep the follows of the Christian way happy stupidity is practised rather then put the focus on education kids about the likes sex and drugs abstinence programs are funded by the US government.

On another note.

South Carolina Treasurer Thomas Ravenel, a former real estate developer who became a rising political star after his election last year, was indicted Tuesday on federal coc aine charges.

Ravenel is also the state chairman for former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign.

Ravenel has stepped down from his volunteer responsibilities with the campaign, according to a statement released by Mark Campbell, Giuliani's political director.

Campbell said the campaign has no information about the accusations pending against Ravenel.

The millionaire is accused of buying less than 500 grams of the drug to share with other people in late 2005, U.S. Attorney Reggie Lloyd said.

Ravenel, 44, is charged with distribution of coc aine, which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

source

The political impact of the chargers remains to be seen but its fair to say that no good can come of this. I guess they didn't screen Thomas because he was a volunteer.

right now the neo cons do not have anyone to hang their hat on. Too many issues with Rudy, McCain is old enough to have been a Pharaoh, Romney's religion will play a role, they dont like Ron Paul, so that doesnt leave much for them. Fred Thompson will be an option, but it doesnt leave much for them.

On the other hand, the Dems really only have Hillary and Edwards right now. Gore could be very interesting, and Bloomberg as an Independant really changes the landscape.

At this point, it is way too early to know who will take it. If I had to predict tickets

Rep: Fred Thompson/Rudy (perhaps)
Dems: Al Gore/Barak Obama
Ind: Michael Bloomberg/Chuck Hagel

My vote would go to Bloomberg

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
In as much as Bush is a devoted Christian, I think he's rubbed too many peole the wrong way.

He had an opportunity to bring this nation back to Christ and for whatever reason he blew it.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
In as much as Bush is a devoted Christian, I think he's rubbed too many peole the wrong way.

He had an opportunity to bring this nation back to Christ and for whatever reason he blew it.

What in Gods name could the President have done to "bring this nation back to Christ" when he is surrounded by Jews that pretty much tell him what to do.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Originally posted by dbrandt
So far, as a christian, there is not a choice for us to vote for.

In a way the above statement gets to the core of the idealogical crises the Republican party has finally had to face. You cant claim that you want small government and at the same time go around telling people what they can do in the bedroom and even going after science nor can you expect anyone outside of the RR to support a party that is happy to inter in every aspect of a persons private life and yet be quiet happy to abandoned that person in a time of geniune need.

If take a Libertarian stance you have to be consistent across the board if you want to make creditable claims about standing for the almost non existence of government. I'm not a Libertarian and I don't pretend to be even if my stance on social issues says otherwise.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by dbrandt
He had an opportunity to bring this nation back to Christ and for whatever reason he blew it.

What in Gods name could the President have done to "bring this nation back to Christ"

By setting an example.

Let's assume he is a true christian. When the events of September 11th happened I remember the president being on national tv and praying for the nation surrounded by other officials(and people were accepting of this). The events of 9/11 got his and this nations attention. The thing is he didn't continue the public praying and acknowledgement of the real and only God there is. He also publicly made a point of stating that the Islamic religion is acceptable also(If you are a christian than you know that no other religion saves a person).

He compromised too much with the enemy and he needed to be extremely bold in all area's of acknowledging God(Jesus Christ) and he failed to do this.

I'm not sure that any President can sway an entire nation by invoking God every chance they get. I don't mind anyone who wears theri religion on their sleeve, but I do think you can have too much of a good thing. I think he's right to say his piece whenever he makes a major public speech. That's his first amendment right, and he would be in line to use it. When it comes to being the leader of an entire political party, I do think that some compromise is in order.

Several of my religous friends were expecting nothing short of a full-on Crusade in the Middle East after 9/11. If he had just stuck to AFghanistan, I think Mr. Bush would have actually gotten a lot of public support for doing "something else." I think he couldh ave generated public demand for war with Iraq, if he had been a little more pragmatic and circumspect.

I thought of a couple of other things Pres. Bush could have done.

A couple of years ago VP Cheney went before the Senate to answer some questions on some matter. He got frustrated and told a senator to f-off. As a christian, Pres. Bush must filter everything through Jesus Christ, I believe he doesn't do this. When that event happened, he should have asked for Mr. Cheney's resignation. The VP also claims to know God, but his actions do not back up what he says.

The President himself was caught on tape swearing, you can't do that if you are a christian, it ruins your entire christian witness, and makes some wonder if you really are a christian.

These are little things, but if you can't be a christian in little things then you won't act like a christian and make God honoring decisions on bigger matters. God cannot bless disobedience.

And from God's vantage point there are no big and little matters. There is only the question, "When faced with choices and decisions of any kind, are you doing what is right and pleasing to God."

A christian has only one boss and it's not an ethnic group. It's the Lord Jesus Christ.

posted by brandt
I thought of a couple of other things Pres. Bush could have done.

A couple of years ago VP Cheney went before the Senate to answer some questions on some matter. He got frustrated and told a senator to f-off. As a Christian, Pres. Bush must filter everything through Jesus Christ, I believe he doesn't do this. When that event happened, he should have asked for Mr. Cheney's resignation. The VP also claims to know God, but his actions do not back up what he says.

The President himself was caught on tape swearing, you can't do that if you are a Christian, it ruins your entire Christian witness, and makes some wonder if you really are a Christian.

These are little things, but if you can't be a Christian in little things then you won't act like a Christian and make God honoring decisions on bigger matters. God cannot bless disobedience.

And from God's vantage point there are no big and little matters. There is only the question, "When faced with choices and decisions of any kind, are you doing what is right and pleasing to God."

A Christian has only one boss and it's not an ethnic group. It's the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think religionists of all stripes need to do some circumspection of their own. Zealots of any calling are dangerous to the commonweal. I rely on the First Amendment of the US Con, and in particular to the Establishment clause. For easy reference, here it is: 1st Amendment. “The Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion . . . “

Not written at all like the conflicted 2nd Amendment, I find the First easy. Bear in mind it is the Supreme Court that tells us what the words mean in practical applications. Consider Alabama’s devious Chief Judge Roy Moore. In the dark of a Sunday night at his own expense, he had smuggled into the rotunda of Montgomery’s Justice Building of the State of Alabama, a stone monument weighing about 6,000 pounds and which was inscribed with one of the 2 versions of the Ten Commandments found in the KJV of the Holy Bible. (Command #4 of which Christians refuse to honor).

The US Supreme Court said the message engraved on the monument violated the Establishment clause. It put Alabama in the position of state approval of a particular religion. That's not permitted. The US Supreme Court did not order it removed. The Alabama Supreme Court wanted to be in compliance with the US Supreme Court. It’s Chief Judge Roy Moore was ordered by the other 6 members of the Court to have it removed. It was his property. Judge Moore refused. Ultimately, the Alabama Supreme Court not only had the monument removed, but it voted Judge Moore off the bench. He sought vindication by running for public office in the next election but Moore was rejected by the voters of Alabama. If asked, I feel sure 90% of Alabamians would answer affirmatively they are Christians. But of a lesser zealousness than Judge Moore. But more tolerant. Not a good word in the eyes (ears?) of all too many so-called Christians.


Foot Note: Amendment One: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. 1791.

[edit on 6/22/2007 by donwhite]

One person's profanity is another person's proper description. I think there is enough peer pressure out there to keep most people in line when it comes to swearing. Professional behavior isn't always easy. Mr. Cheney's outburst demonstated a degree of capriciousness that is frowned upon in white collar circles.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
One person's profanity is another person's proper description. I think there is enough peer pressure out there to keep most people in line when it comes to swearing. Professional behavior isn't always easy. Mr. Cheney's outburst demonstated a degree of capriciousness that is frowned upon in white collar circles.

No one is kept in line by swearing. It's considered normal to swear. Open your ears tomorrow and listen for all the swearing out there.(The words that really are profanity, all of them f..., a.., sh.. etc, plus the use of God's name in vain)

Profanity has no place in a christian. You are not at all getting the point. As a believer in Jesus Christ you have responsibilites, your life is not your own. You've escaped death and condemnation through Christ, your a new creature, old things have passed away. You no longer are a slave to sinning, you can say no. Plus you are an ambassador for Christ.

Some people hold greater responsibilities than others. If the President and VP cannot guard their tongues than they shouldn't call themselves a christian.

Well if Bush had proclaimed that Christianity was the only way to salvation post 9-11 he would have lost support from everyone expect for Christian extremists.
Going into Afghanistan was the right move on the chess board and was and is supported globally and on the home front in the US. Had a fraction of the money blown on the Iraq war been spend on nation building in Afghanistan there would have been a lot progress made in that country.

As for Iraq with do respect to Justin timing by itself wouldn't have made a difference to the public support for the war no one is going to support a war that has no clear strategic purpose. In terms of timing a delay would have allowed time to win the war in Afghanistan or enlarge the US military both of which would have meant the resources were available to defeat the post invasion insurgency military had the right preparations been made.

No one questioned why the CIA had failed or couldn't work with the Kurds to overthrow Saddam . The answer is that the CIA is useless but instead of addressing that problem the US is now struck with a war it doesn't have the resources to win military and the CIA is still useless.

Originally posted by xpert11
Well if Bush had proclaimed that Christianity was the only way to salvation post 9-11 he would have lost support from everyone expect for Christian extremists.

Please define what a christian extremist is.

A christian has an obligation to proclaim that christianity is the only way to salvation. And sure there would have been those in opposition to that proclamation(Christianity speaks of absolutes, responsibility and that there is a God who we are accoubtable to and alot of people hate that), but people were shook up and looking for anwers regarding God and what is going on. Remember what the phrase was that became the anthem and rally cry after 9/11, "God bless America", unfortunately the President missed the boat and didn't identify that God as Jesus Christ.( Thank God individuals still came to Christ but as a nation we did not).

This is merely a guess on my part but I think the President knows what the Bible says is going to happen in the end times. If he feels that that is where we are in history, then I think he thought that somehow if a democracy could be established in the Islamic world, that maybe that could change the end times. And/or actually as I think about it, if that is what he did try to do, God could have allowed it to show us that that is impossible and will not work.

I had a speaker come to my church about 3 years ago. Someone asked Him about the "road map for peace" plan. In the course of answering the question he commented that President Bush has a Methodist background and it is the official view of that denomination that the church(not the catholic church) but christians have replaced Israel in God's program. If that is part of what he believes Biblically, it will lead to major flaws in how he deals with Israel.

I'm all for being a good example. I'm all for a guarded tongue, too. Even so, I don't think there is a human being alive today that could never swear. As a principle, I don't see anything wrong with your point. It's something to aspire to. A life-long goal to be pursued. If a President can be dismissed for bad language, how does anyone stay employed? I undersand your theological point, and I'm hoping that one day we can achieve such high ideals. Until we can, we'll just have to keep on trying.

Let me see a Christian extremist is someone who tries to force there beliefs down other peoples throat and they even want there politica leaders to do the same . Christian extremists are also waging a war against science and conception.

I have Christian friends and none of them expect there political leaders to proclaim that Christianity and there own version of worship is the one true faith. Protecting our way of life in no way involves preaching someone's version of an method that is nothing more then a means of controlling the masses.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by xpert11]

[edit on 22-6-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
I'm all for being a good example. I'm all for a guarded tongue, too. Even so, I don't think there is a human being alive today that could never swear.

Right, but when it occurs there is a course of action to take. It's called an apology and in the case of the Vice President a private and public apology for the nation to see would be the answer.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
The 'stink' of the Bush43 administration is going to be hard for anyone connected to it to beat. Giuliani is the least connected person you've mentioned so far in this thread. Even so, I don't think he would have the political muscle to have it out with Hillary and win.

I really hoped that you would know better.

They are all bought and paid for except Ron Paul....



RON PAUL FOR 2008 IT'S TIME TO CHANGE THE BS GOV!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by xpert11
Let me see a Christian extremist is someone who tries to force there beliefs down other peoples throat and they even want there politica leaders to do the same . Christian extremists are also waging a war against science and conception.

Protecting our way of life in no way involves preaching someone's version of an method that is nothing more then a means of controlling the masses.

Could you tell me what the war against conception is, I don't think I know that one?

Not sure about the forcing down the throat thing with christianity, because all you do if someone is telling you about christianity is walk away or exit that message board topic. Seems to me if someone clicks onto topics and reads topics about christianity they opened their mouth so we could "force" something into their throat.

I would be real careful about how you despise christianity, there is another religion that LITERALLY will slit your throat all the way through if you don't acknowledge the validity of their religion and swear allegiance to it.

Controlling the masses is one of those phrases that really is meaningless when talking about true christianity!