God, the divine liar

Originally posted by NJE777

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
the only reedemable thing from the Old Testament is the Ten Commandments, other than that, give me the New Testament gospel of Jesus Christ.

well even thats debateable!

I think the most important rule is The Golden Rule and yet that is conveniently displaced. Yanno, do unto others as you would have them do to you!

Yeah,well, the Golden Rule didn't come into effect until Christ came. So, technically, the Golden Rule is not an aspect of the Old Testament.

Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by conspiracymaster
we have to many people here who actually believe in god... here goes,

We have many people who believe in God, UFOs, aliens, 9/11 conspiracies, ghost, angels, OBE and any other number of subjects on ATS. No one says that anyone has to believe everything or anything. That is the genius of ATS. It is a forum for the discussion of ideas. Thanks for your contribution.

just doing my part to keep people thinking. why should i believe in god? because if i dont, im gonna get stoned to death?

just doing my part to keep people thinking. why should i believe in god? because if i dont, im gonna get stoned to death?

You are not forced to belive in god, you can belive anything you want no one is forcing you, and you put too much accent on one thing, maybe the cristian religion is right, maybe the cristian religion has it's flaws, one thing is clear for me, that there is a god out there, every thing is just made out to work, like it all happend by random some sustain, I can't give credit to that, when I look at the universe I know it's not random
Logic, science, evolution are not created by man, but discovered by man, it was there for the take and that is about it.

Originally posted by conspiracymaster
The behavior of "God" in Eden matches precisely what evil would have to do if its goal were to take over the human race and control it.

What people have been taught is a lie and it goes AGAINST biblical scripture, logic and common sense. If one studies the bible carefully they will realize that it does not reflect that the Serpent was evil and trying to deceive the human race.

The behavior "God" exhibited in Eden is perfectly consistent with what evil would have to do if its goal were to take over the human race and control it. This in itself is consistent with the Luciferic symbols found in Washington D.C. Government plays the biggest part in world control. The bible also specifically tells us that Satan controls this world:

In whom the god of this world [Satan] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. II Cor 4:4

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Satanism in washington

As you can see on the back of the U.S. one dollar bill there is a pyramid with the All-Seeing-Eye of God, with the message, "New Order of The Ages" or "New World Order."

learn that the U.S. Government is linked to Satanism. You have already learned that the U.S. Government is linked to several other governments and the church. And that it is all run by the secret society Brotherhood.

The street design in Washington, D.C., has been laid out in such a manner that certain Luciferic symbols are depicted by the streets, cul-de-sacs and rotaries. This design was created in 1791, a few years after Freemasonry assumed the leadership of the New World Order, in 1782.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/chapter3

there is stockpiles of evidence this world is changing and not changing for the better...what are your thougts?

[edit on 26-12-2006 by conspiracymaster]

Conspiracymaster, you don't know what you talk about. If you study the Bible through you will find you are wrong. God lives, and he is more kind than you could believe.

Originally posted by elemist
Conspiracymaster, you don't know what you talk about. If you study the Bible through you will find you are wrong. God lives, and he is more kind than you could believe.

im sorry elemist, but i do not agree. there is too much unnessesary pain and suffering in this world, my life included, for me to see the light of this god person should he/she exist.

thousands of children are dieing from starvation every day. hundreds of innocent bystanders die every day in un-just wars. millions of people are homeless even in the worlds richest countries. countles civilians are left with disabilities from government testing (agent orange). the list goes on.

If you had studied the Bible you would know these are mearly signs of the end.

conspiracymaster

I don´t know if you are familiar with some gnostic views regarding the God of orthodoxy and fundamentalism?(I mean The God from the O.T) If not perhaps it would be interesting for you to take a look at them.It would surely give you another perspective of this God.Giving away a spoiler here,but would it suprise you to find them essentially sharing your views & thoughts regarding this God?
Demiurge is the frase to look for if you decied to look upon this matter.

Peace be with you..dude.



[edit on 28-12-2006 by 11an]

Originally posted by 11an
conspiracymaster

I don´t know if you are familiar with some gnostic views regarding the God of orthodoxy and fundamentalism?(I mean The God from the O.T) If not perhaps it would be interesting for you to take a look at them.It would surely give you another perspective of this God.Giving away a spoiler here,but would it suprise you to find them essentially sharing your views & thoughts regarding this God?
Demiurge is the frase to look for if you decied to look upon this matter.

Peace be with you..dude.

[edit on 28-12-2006 by 11an]

I don't know if conspiracy is familiar with them,but I certainly am. If one examines many of my views, one will discover that I sort of have a Gnostic view of God as well. While I certainly believe in Jesus Christ and the God he spoke of,I have a hard time unifying the God of Jesu with the god of the Old Testament. This is the very sae conuundrum that the Gnostics of old pointed out as well.

[edit on 28-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Ok, I'm about 2 pages late with this part of my post, but oh well. To those who say that God never lied in the garden of Eden, I come bearing some proof.

From Chapter 2.

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I'd like to draw your attention to the thou shalt surely die, it's an important line. Please remember it.

Now, from Chapter 3.

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

Once again, eating the fruit from the tree of Knowledge leads to death.

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Well.. Who does this serpent think he is saying they won't die if they eat from that particular tree? He's the serpent and not God so he must be a liar if God is telling the truth, right? Let us see what happens.

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

What's this? No death? They were free to go? Alas, tis true my fellow ATSers. In the story of the Garden of Eden, God was indeed a liar. He said they would die if they ate from the Tree of Knowledge, yet they did not die. They learned the difference between Good and Evil. I would also like to point out that the serpent's reward for telling Eve the truth about what would happen if she ate from the tree was to crawl on his belly and to be stigmatized as being a liar when all he did was tell the truth. It amazes me how blind some people can be...

Jenna,the only problem with your assertion is that it is assumed that Adam and Eve would have been immortal if they hadn't ate from the tree. Are we immortal now? Did Adam and Eve eventually die,or are they still walking amongst us?

While I agree that there are certainly discrepancies between the God Jesus spoke of and the god of the Old Testament, I am not going to claim that the story of the garden is false because I don't believe it to be.

Even in the OT, there are spots where the one true God does try to communicate.However, there seem to be spots where there is a totally different entity communicating altogether.

My issue with the assumption that they would have lived forever had they stayed in Eden is that there is a Tree of Life there also. If they were immortal prior to eating from the Tree of Knowledge then why was there a need for a Tree of Life? I think it's a few steps away from reality to say they were immortal until that point. I also think there were more than one god present in Eden, thus the comments God makes when he's talking about Adam (in our image, in our likeness) and again after Adam and Eve have eaten the fruit (one ofus), but that's not the point right now. I was not trying to prove the entire story false, but God did indeed lie to Adam and Eve about the Tree of Knowledge. He told them they would die if they ate it and they didn't. They lived long happy lives and had children.

Originally posted by Jenna
My issue with the assumption that they would have lived forever had they stayed in Eden is that there is a Tree of Life there also. If they were immortal prior to eating from the Tree of Knowledge then why was there a need for a Tree of Life? I think it's a few steps away from reality to say they were immortal until that point. I also think there were more than one god present in Eden, thus the comments God makes when he's talking about Adam (in our image, in our likeness) and again after Adam and Eve have eaten the fruit (one ofus), but that's not the point right now. I was not trying to prove the entire story false, but God did indeed lie to Adam and Eve about the Tree of Knowledge. He told them they would die if they ate it and they didn't. They lived long happy lives and had children.

THANKS for the input jenna. i appreciate the time and effort you put in your posts and you make really good points too

Originally posted by Jenna
He told them they would die if they ate it and they didn't. They lived long happy lives and had children.

But they did die,no? The Tree of Life was there because they had a choice. They could either choose knowledge or life. They chose knowledge over life.

Hey,don't get me wrong. I certainly don't buy into the whole story either,but there are certain aspects that just are not up for debate.

[edit on 28-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Jenna
He told them they would die if they ate it and they didn't. They lived long happy lives and had children.

But they did die,no?

The Tree of Life was there because they had a choice. They could either choose knowledge or life. They chose knowledge over life.

Hey,don't get me wrong. I certainly don't buy into the whole story either,but there are certain aspects that just are not up for debate.

[edit on 28-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

nope. they lived to have kids cain and able im sure you know that. and what god clearly said was

if you eat from this tree you will surely die. he gave no other option. both of them ate from the tree and they both lived. THAT IS CALLED A LIE.

They did surely die!! Maybe not right that instant, but they did surely die!! GEEZ

You see, you are implying that God meant they would die in that instant. What reason would there be in that? It would have been a waste for God to have created Adam and Eve and then killed them in the instant that they disobeyed his rule.

God may be many things, but fickle he is not.

That's the problem of taking the Bible literally. SoT has it right imo. They were cast from God's presence and in that day they began to die, not before they ate the fruit.

There's also a passage that reads, "A 1000 years are as a day to the Lord." Don't ask me where it is, my religious days are decades behind me.

But, if you want to believe God is a liar, no amount of words on a website will change your mind. You've got issues with Him.

or, you know

there was no garden of eden
and adam and eve didn't exist as anything more than characters from a fable

why do people feel enthralled to the second story of creation in the bible, when the first is much more open to logic?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
or, you know

there was no garden of eden
and adam and eve didn't exist as anything more than characters from a fable

why do people feel enthralled to the second story of creation in the bible, when the first is much more open to logic?

Then feel free to open a thread about that and let this topic continue then, OK?

[edit on 28-12-2006 by intrepid]