Sumerian Origins of Humans - How religion and science combine!

Originally posted by Byrd

The Sitchin story is cute and interesting

I've got to disagree with you there Byrd, though I suspect you are being intentionally generous.

Sitchin writes 4th rate sci-fi which can't hold my attention for more than 10 minutes. If you guys want to read some spine tinglingly good Space Opera then get hold of Iain M Banks or Alastair Reynolds (I'm just reading his Century Rain at the mo, for a little holiday treat). These authors also have the advantage of not pretending that their stories are actually real. They are also a million times more sophisticated than anything that hack Sitchin could ever dream up.

marduk,

you're not very nice, sometimes.

this is what the person said:



Evolution is a big book, so is the bible. I'll just stick to: we're probably an engineered planet organism. As humans we're in charge of it and hopefully, our solar system. We got it pretty good. What's the point playing stab in the dark? If we're not an extraterrestrial guinea pig, good on us. We're battlers of our own earth. It's pretty chemically complicated. Evolution is a pretty simple concept. Would probably feel better if we were alone. Time will tell. Bascially, fanatics are the dangerous ones.

you're not very nice, sometimes

and sometimes you have no sense of humour
thanks for the translation though
I agree with it completely
we are not an extra terrestrial guinea pig

and there is no evidence of aliens in earths history

Originally posted by Marduk

I would do anything to take a trip back in time and see what really happend.

from what you just said you'd be extremely dissapointed that your imagination doesn't match the reality

can you give me a link to a good example of this egyptian sacrifice for the mythical gods that you speak of ?

Human sacrifice is not generally connected with ancient Egypt. There is little evidence of human sacrifice during most of the dynastic period of ancient Egypt... but there is some evidence that it may have been practiced in the Nile Valley during the 1st Dynasty and possibly also Predynastic Egypt.

The earliest known example of human sacrifice may perhaps be found in Predynastic burials in the south of Egypt, dated to the Naqada II Period. One of the discovered bodies showed marks of the throat from having been cut before having been decapitated.

-- Human Sacrifice, Jacques Kinnaer

The two definitions of human sacrifice that could be applied to the very early development of ancient Egypt are:

The ritual killing of human beings as part of the offerings presented to the gods on a regular basis, or on special occasions.
Retainer sacrifice, or the killing of domestic servants to bury them along with their master.
-- Human Sacrifice, Jacques Kinnaer

Offerings to the Gods

One form of human sacrifices to the gods may have been in the form of slaying criminals and prisoners of war. Some early dynastic depictions of sacrifices have been found, showing a man holding a bowl, possibly using it to catch the blood of a victim who is seated in front of him. The man and the victim are normally before either gods or men of power, making it seem as if these scenes are of human sacrifices. Despite the pictures, there is not enough information as to why it was done, what happened with the blood in the bowl, or for whom it was done. Other than the human sacrifice theory, there is another theory as to what is happening in the scenes:

Two slabs were discovered dating to the beginning of the 1st Dynasty, one in Abydos concerning King Aha and the other in Saqqara, concerning King Djer. Each slab depicts a seated person directing a pointed instrument to the throat or chest of another person who is kneeling backwards with his arms tied behind his back. Petrie, Emery and Zaki Saaed believed that this denotes human sacrifice whereas Vikentiesf and Hussain believe it to be a tracheostomy being performed. The latter view is more appropriate as the lancet is used as a determinative "to breath" rather than the habitual signs of the nose or the sail. In Aha's slab the sign Ankh is present; the way the scalpel is handled is more appropriately directed to the trachea than the neck vessels as obviously the best way for slaughtering was known even at prehistoric times!

-- Medicine and Surgery in Ancient Egypt, Ahmes L. Pahor

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

Originally posted by Byrd

The Sitchin story is cute and interesting

I've got to disagree with you there Byrd, though I suspect you are being intentionally generous.

Sitchin writes 4th rate sci-fi which can't hold my attention for more than 10 minutes. If you guys want to read some spine tinglingly good Space Opera then get hold of Iain M Banks or Alastair Reynolds (I'm just reading his Century Rain at the mo, for a little holiday treat). These authors also have the advantage of not pretending that their stories are actually real. They are also a million times more sophisticated than anything that hack Sitchin could ever dream up.

LOL! Caught!

Yes, I was being intentionally generous. My opinion of his shenanegans is very poor. I do love a good space opera, though -- Andrew J. Offut could write some marvelous stuff... and heck, even the old Lensmen series (or Andre Norton's various books) were wonderful reads!

And Heinlein (okay, he got preachy and tiresome in his last ones, but his earlier stuff was just fun)!

Thanks Undo and militia, for your interesting thoughts on Sumerian origins.

While each and everyone will have their own opinions on sci-fi and reality, the truth, unfortunately is still out there. I can only form my own conclusions and await for more confirmation from further knowledge gleaned from digs and deciphering ancient texts for more evidences of our past, rather than to form hasty/nasty or unmalicious ignorance on the subject matter.

Thanks for sharing your analysis.

Thanks Undo and militia, for your interesting thoughts on Sumerian origins.

see theres me wishing there was an award for the most ignorant post on ATS
you'd win it every month with statements like that
Undo and Militia offered nothing constructive at all just a load of rehashed Zechariah Sitchin crap
you already know that Sitchin is a trained economist and not a historian or linguist of any kind
that means he can't read ancient tablets but he knows what sort of thing will sell
but hey
what does every qualified sumerologist on earth know really about the sumerian civilisation on which they are fully qualified experts
after all
they all say that Sitchin is wrong and talking out of the wrong end of his body just for profit
you just refuse to believe it because you aren't an expert of any kind
except maybe making ignorant statements
you're a genius in that area

To the poster with nickname Marduk.

1. Did I offend you? If i did, please list where it is on this thread.

2. Who died and bestowed you the title of 'Universal Genius of Science & All Knowledge/Genius/Know-it-all', that you can freely insult those who's view/opinions differs from you as 'crap'?

3. Do you hold the moderators in so low regard that you dare mount personal attacks on others' view with impunity, even though all members are made to read the priviledges of posting in ATS?

This post needs no reply for the intention is for other discussing members to see the atittude of that particular poster. Any further reply from him will only be blabber anyway, as expected. If i am wrong in my expectation, then i need no apologies from him, only that he apologise to the other members whom he had insulted.

you made an ignorant statement
live with it

claiming that the two posters who understand less about the reality of the sumerian culture than anyone else who posted in this thread were in someway clever is clear evidence that you also dont know anything about the sumerian culture
so you compounded your ignorant statement with your ignorance of the reality of life in the ancient world
if you can't handle that don't try to blame me for typing what can only be taken as 100% truthful

the Sumerians were not in contact with Aliens
there has never been any evidence of alien contact
there never will be any evidence of alien contact
is that clear ?

Marduk, Lighten up dude. He just said thanks for the "interesting thoughts".
IMO, it was an interesting idea of fiction. Of course I love to read SCI Fi and fanatasy. Read the post for what it is, Just someones thoughts and they are not trying to pass it as fact.

Happy New Year

Undo was trying to pass it as fact

To the poster named Marduk.

1. You continued with your insults at following members again with total disregard and contempt to moderators

2. You continue to persist in claiming others' views are 'crap', fiction, etc, and yet..are you yourself an 'expert' on Sumerian history, culture, science and knowledge? (Desist using googled fu to back you up please!)

3. A civilisation such as Sumeria encompasses a landmass almost the whole of modern arab world. And yet, with a few hundred archeological holes in the ground, are we to accept the so-called 'experts' opinion based on a few broken chips or works of art as holy writ?

( try IMAGINE a dig around a kansas farm after a post apocalyptic event in an imaginary future, with sand or earth that covered the whole of USA for 4000 years, dug by an ignorant surviving race - would their 'facts' be that 4000 years ago after the apocalyptic event, the US civilisation were a bunch of farmers? Will they dig up every square inch of USA? How much of a civilisation's non-stone artefact will remain intact after 4000 yrs? So how much would be fact and how much would be conjecture of a civilisation? )

4. Who is more ignorant - the one who questions the 'expert' or the one who does not question but accepts 'experts' opinion on blind faith?

Take note: History is not science. Science is based on theories that can be repeated with similar results and are thus facts. History is only interpretation of events by fallible men, from the recorder to the archeologist.

Seeker,

Don't bother with Mardy. He'll never stop arguing with you, no matter what. If you should begin to gain ground, he'll attack the color of your shoelaces.

I learned after months of arguing with him, that's he's even more incorrugible than I am. He's gotta have the last word and he has to be right, 100% of the time. I think i've seen him admit he was wrong once, and that was to someone he already agreed with on everything else. All you're doing now is giving him a podium to pontificate on why he doesn't like me, respect me, agree with me, and so on. He's a predator. Toss him a bone and then run the other way.

[edit on 3-1-2007 by undo]

To the poster named seekeroflies

1. You continued with your insults at following members again with total disregard and contempt to moderators

no i have total contempt and disregard for you and your ignorance only which you demonstrate everytime you post here

2. You continue to persist in claiming others' views are 'crap', fiction, etc, and yet..are you yourself an 'expert' on Sumerian history, culture, science and knowledge? (Desist using googled fu to back you up please!)

yes I do and surprisingly the entire community of qualified sumerology agrees with me
yes I am an expert on sumerian history culture, science and knowledge? and run my own Sumerian research forum. fell flat on your face with that one didnt you

3. A civilisation such as Sumeria encompasses a landmass almost the whole of modern arab world. And yet, with a few hundred archeological holes in the ground, are we to accept the so-called 'experts' opinion based on a few broken chips or works of art as holy writ?

no actually it occupied a very small area between the tigris and euphrates rivers by the persian gulf. The modern country that it is located in and far smaller than is called Iraq. perhaps you've heard of it
it has been excavated continuously for the last 150 years.
so once again you fall flat on your face with your ignorant statements

( try IMAGINE a dig around a kansas farm after a post apocalyptic event in an imaginary future, with sand or earth that covered the whole of USA for 4000 years, dug by an ignorant surviving race - would their 'facts' be that 4000 years ago after the apocalyptic event, the US civilisation were a bunch of farmers? Will they dig up every square inch of USA? How much of a civilisation's non-stone artefact will remain intact after 4000 yrs? So how much would be fact and how much would be conjecture of a civilisation? )

well the sumerians left records in a language that we can read perfectly
it explains every aspect of their culture and we fully understand it. so perhaps the only ignorant member of a surving race attempting to dig holes is you

4. Who is more ignorant - the one who questions the 'expert' or the one who does not question but accepts 'experts' opinion on blind faith?

which experts have you questioned lately. you have accepted the work of Zechariah Sitchin on blind faith. personally I have studied this culture for myself for a number of years and converse with recognised experts about aspects of it frequently
so yes once again you are the more ignorant by quite a margin
I can actually read sumerian. you can barely write english

Take note: History is not science. Science is based on theories that can be repeated with similar results and are thus facts. History is only interpretation of events by fallible men, from the recorder to the archeologist.

we're not talking history here
we're talking archaeology and linguistics
that is a science
if you're discussing the work of Zechariah Sitchin then you are discussing economics and pseudohistory neither of which are a science
haha you don't even know what subject we are discussing
thats priceless


please please please mod team lets have an award for most ignorant poster
i think we have a winner


Undo
you have never argued with me
what passes for evidence for you would not be worth passing water over by anyone else
you do most of your research on the sci fi channel
when discussing anything with you I have been 100% right all the tjme because you are incapable of accepting that Aliens were not involved in Sumerian history
you frequently confuse words, symbols and concepts with those you have seen on stargate sg1 and the rest of the time what passes for intellectual discussion in your mind is actually just plain old nonsense
crying that I am better than you is a little pointless really as anyone who has ever read our interchanges is well aware of it
you are wrong in one thing though
I do like you
I like you a lot
you make me look good

Marduk,
I am only going to speak up for UNDO. I went back and reread her post in this thread. No where does she claim that what she is saying it is fact. She has stated numerous times that it is her belief or opinion. She also states that it is her interpritation of ZS book.

Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to give "credit" where it is due.


PS Who is Speaker O Flies?


[edit on 3-1-2007 by ultralo1]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by ultralo1]

To the poster named Marduk

Right, and i am Prince Charles if you speak Sumerian. Pray do show some of your peer reviewed and approved works on Sumerian culture that you pass off as 'facts'.

Enough of your pompous blabber.

very short speech this time speakeroflies
losing face are you
everything I said was true, would you like me to prove it and make you look really silly or would you like to concede now

its ironic isnt it that despite your name you can't handle the truth




Ultralo1

I am only going to speak up for UNDO. I went back and reread her post in this thread. No where does she claim that what she is saying it is fact

if thats the case then she uses the terms "it was" and "it is" far too often
maybe you should ask her if in fact she believes that Aliens were in contact with the Sumerians and is shed care to state that as a fact
then you'll know that I wasn't speaking out of hand because she actually believes that and anything that she beleives is apparently a fact
like floating ziggurats made of metal and chinese pharoahs and the like
shes repeated most of that stuff at other forums before and most times I have taken it apart. I think shes glad that this time I am giving her some distance
she doesnt really need you sticking the oar in and making me want to bite her data in half again

every time I do that she gets upset
and I don't like to upset her too much
I'm saving that for speakerofpies



[edit on 3-1-2007 by Marduk]

Please do not make me REPEAT again. Go ahead and prove it. Make me silly by all means. READ MY LATTER POST AGAIN. (caps not meant as anger, but just in the event the poster cant read, see or understand simple english)

Show us your peer reviewed and approved works that you claimed are unblemish and UNDISPUTED 'facts' of the Sumerian civilisation.

Enough evasion please or are you just another blabbering idi*t?

This thread that I had started has unfortunately degenerated in insults being cast to and fro and has wroecked any chance of a lively debate/discussion so that each and every one of us may contribute what little we know or think towards the pool of knowledge so we may in return all learn that little bit more!

How sad

Originally posted by Marduk






[edit on 3-1-2007 by Marduk]

Anyone can post some images found on the internet, yet you claim to speak the language but have not prooved it yet.

As well you claim to have a forum where renowed experts post in it yet you have yet to post a link.


[edit on 4-1-2007 by Fett Pinkus]