I'm sick of Jesus

by madnessinmysoul
mohammed wrote down the koran....

That's not saying much. It's just a bunch of mumbojumbo written by a 7th century johnnycomelately! I think the book of Psalm's an Proverb's do a better job than the koran by themselves. The only historical context given is references to the Bible. Then it turns around and denies some of the Bibles main points.

At least the Bible has the decency to start at the Beginning. The koran claims Injil (Jesus) to be the greatest prophet or Son of God. Explain why he accepted worship on several occasions then. Surely he would have known that worship is reserved for God alone.

Mormans and Jehovah Witness were both started by johnnycomelately deceivers as well. Looking out for their own interests. The Bible is very understandable, it's the best selling book in history, it's been thoroughly studied and vetted. I think one should study it thoroughly on those merits before tossing around, he said/they said stuff.

Originally posted by angryScientist
I'm sick of Jesus

He's not even close to being sick of you.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
That's not saying much. It's just a bunch of mumbojumbo written by a 7th century johnnycomelately!

true, it is mumbo-jumbo, but then again, it's a religious text
all of them are pretty much mumbo-jumbo

I think the book of Psalm's an Proverb's do a better job than the koran by themselves. The only historical context given is references to the Bible. Then it turns around and denies some of the Bibles main points.

it doesn't deny the existence of god
or all points associated with said god
it just denies 2 points from the new testament, that jesus was god and that jesus was crucified

hell, it pretty much meshes with the bible on all non-jesus-being-divine points

At least the Bible has the decency to start at the Beginning.

no, it doesn't, see it was EDITED that way
the book of genesis isn't the oldest book in the bible
job is

The koran claims Injil (Jesus) to be the greatest prophet or Son of God.

INJIL?
you mean ISA?
and not just the greatest prophet, a UNIVERSAL PROPHET, along the lines of moses

Explain why he accepted worship on several occasions then. Surely he would have known that worship is reserved for God alone.

that's why islam rejects those parts of the new testament...
they view them as false

Mormans and Jehovah Witness were both started by johnnycomelately deceivers as well. Looking out for their own interests. The Bible is very understandable, it's the best selling book in history, it's been thoroughly studied and vetted. I think one should study it thoroughly on those merits before tossing around, he said/they said stuff.

i've study the bible thoroughly
read it cover to cover twice
probably more if you count the skipping around i've done
and all i see is an intriguing study into the sociology of ancient people at best
and a crock at the worst
it's contradictory
ridiculous
and full of inaccuracies

and the best selling book arguement?
well, popular opinion isn't always right
history has shown that

by madnessinmysoul
or all points associated with said god

Not all points. Islam leaves out God's Grace. That's why it denies God's Sacrifice through Christ. In Islam, you have no guarantee that you will make Heaven, because it is a works based belief system, just like all the rest. If your works don't outweigh your trespasses, you're bummin'! Oh, unless you kill people in a suicide attack, then you're in for sure.

all of them are pretty much mumbo-jumbo

I find the timeline of the Bible, from Creation to Revelation to be every bit as cognizant as any book I've read. Most of what's in the koran seems to come straight out of Proverb's to me. Maybe Mohammad had a copy?

no, it doesn't, see it was EDITED that way

OK, so Job was on earth before it was created. This is silly.

it's contradictory and full of inaccuracies edit by Him

Examples please.

[edit on 30-12-2006 by HimWhoHathAnEar]

Ok...

Heres a litmus test...

The whole world truly loving each other like brothers...means actually a cashless society, no war, and no countries.

A world of hate each other..means your on your own, mayhem, and isolationism. Its your world..and of course..the next guys..and the next guys..and the next guys..

How about our world.

Christ is Universal love. Forget the institutional religion.

Try this to start.

As if everyone on earth was the person you loved the Most...

Peace

by HiFiGuy
The whole world truly loving each other like brothers...means actually a cashless society, no war, and no countries.

OK, so the NWO is the answer. While this is what it says in the Bible would come to pass, it's not the side I'd like to be on!

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Not all points. Islam leaves out God's Grace. That's why it denies God's Sacrifice through Christ. In Islam, you have no guarantee that you will make Heaven, because it is a works based belief system, just like all the rest. If your works don't outweigh your trespasses, you're bummin'! Oh, unless you kill people in a suicide attack, then you're in for sure.

actually, in islam all will suffer hell's torture
even if only for a short time
all will then go to heaven, eventually
oh, and nice bigoted remark about suicide bombing...

I find the timeline of the Bible, from Creation to Revelation to be every bit as cognizant as any book I've read. Most of what's in the koran seems to come straight out of Proverb's to me. Maybe Mohammad had a copy?

see, the issue is that the bible wasn't all written at one time
it was written in bits and pieces
then there was an editing process
they got rid of the parts that didn't mesh as well
however, it starts off incoherently
the world begins
animals are created
humanity is created
then the world begins again
this time man is created
then animals
then woman...

and as for the point on proverbs and the koran
i've never compared them side to side
and i'm not going to speculate

OK, so Job was on earth before it was created. This is silly.

no, job was just the first book of the bible that was written
were you under the delusion that the bible was written as the events happened?

Examples please.

well, i already told you that the bible has 2 accounts of creation
4 different accounts of the life of jesus

well, i'm not going to list off all the reasons, as that would be thread jacking
skeptics annotated bible
that's a good source for you to get information on the bible
be open minded and look through it

[edit on 12/30/06 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

by HiFiGuy
The whole world truly loving each other like brothers...means actually a cashless society, no war, and no countries.

OK, so the NWO is the answer. While this is what it says in the Bible would come to pass, it's not the side I'd like to be on!

Let me pose this to you a different way...almost with a twist

Lets say we find a new planet..its in every way..the same as earth.

There is food everywhere..there are gold mountains..and diamond filled streams..

Do you go there and stake your claim?

Do you get yours?

Just how was this world supposed to be, if not the way the God our Father wanted it?

Perhaps..the world, the one you live in now, is like the father who catches his son smoking..stick him in the closet and let him enjoy as many smokes as he wants until hes blue in the face and throwing up..

After that..lets hope the child doenst smoke...

But even so..the child continues to smoke even though he knows it causes cancer...

In the end..he dies of his habit that his father tryed to stop him from having...

Such could be the case here...

This earth where every one of his peopole are loved...and we have someone dying one of starvation every 3 seconds while food establishments around the world throw away food every day because it wasnt purchased.

Where items that are given for free..are given out in poverty countries and then sold for profit...

The world can still have its toys..but somewhere along the line..things got way out of hand...

Like the father who makes alot of money...has all the toys..and prestige..but forgets about his children?

The Parents that put a huge amount of time and effort into building a new home, or their jobs...and forget hat spending time with their kids or spouse was really what they should have been doing...

The parents that drink with their friends..and forgot about the ones they loved who are waiting for them to come home..

We are loved..and the sunshine falls for the Good guys and the Bad...

At what point..does the world become good guys...

Christs promise was that the Good guys come..and win...

No matter what..

Its Gods way..

Not really up for debate..not really even up for a question.

Peace




[edit on 30-12-2006 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 30-12-2006 by HIFIGUY]

by madnessinmysoul
oh, and nice bigoted remark about suicide bombing...

Typical. Rather than deal with the fact that suicide bombers are taught that they get a free pass to Heaven and 72 Mansions with 72 Virgins each, by Islamic teachers, you'll just throw a Bigot card and move on.

actually, in islam all will suffer hell's torture

Nice.

All will go to Heaven Eventually? So Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam? Can you direct me to this teaching in Islam?

then there was an editing process, they got rid of parts that didn't mesh well Edited by HimWho

If this happened why did they leave in all the contradictions?

I agree that dealing with the 'contradictions' is too much for this thread. But I would say that on closer observation, most can be, if not explained, shown to be eye witness differentials. It's like when you get testimony from three or four people who saw a car accident happen. You're probably going to get 3-4 slightly different testimonies. So, if all four gospel's were all identical, I would be suspicious.

The same goes for the 'contradictions' in 1-2 Kings vs 1-2 Chronicles. One is written from mans perspective, the other from Gods. Needless to say, God has a little different take. There's far more to the Bible than reading it through a couple times. People get PHD's and still only scratch the surface. I think casual dismissal of it is dangerous, but that's just my opinion.

Think of the Bible like this.....

Doing Good for your fellow man is alot like Not Smoking....

If you dont smoke..the sentence ends here.

If you do smoke this is some of the stuff that happened because of it: there is Cancer, Carbon Monoxide, Lawsuits, people dying of emphysema, Anti Smoking Ecucation, Smoking fines, 2nd hand smoke that hurts other people. 350,000 americans alone die every year from it...Fires started by Cigarettes tossed out of cars and by careless people..All the press and debate and time spent on Cigarettes..
All the people that were enslaved to grow tobacco..

So think of the Bible like this....

Christ said...Love God, and Love one another. If you do this, all the laws of the prophets are fullfilled You can do that by serving your fellow man.

or...you can not...

WW1, WW2, Nuclear weapons...Iraq, Vietnam, Prussian war, the concentration camps..All of the wars in history...
Then all of the deaths due to religious error where people were being killed for not believing or believing things in science that were contrary.

What is the greater Good?

Read what the words say...then ask yourself what are they trying to achieve. Why would God or Christ even bother at all?

Answer...they are testimony that the ones unseen, Love you.

Peace

[edit on 31-12-2006 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 31-12-2006 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Typical. Rather than deal with the fact that suicide bombers are taught that they get a free pass to Heaven and 72 Mansions with 72 Virgins each, by Islamic teachers, you'll just throw a Bigot card and move on.

by EXTREMIST ISLAMIC TEACHERS
extremists
not by regular muslims

Nice.

All will go to Heaven Eventually? So Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam? Can you direct me to this teaching in Islam?

well, i wasn't here to give a primer on islam
first, all go to heaven with exceptions
islam teaches that only the truely evil go to hell for eternity
and christianity teaches that the 4 you listed would go to heaven if they simply repented at the end of their life and converted to christianity they'd go to heaven

I think casual dismissal of it is dangerous, but that's just my opinion.

ok, so i cut out the eyewitness part and the rest because you're right, it is something for another thread

anyway, i'm not casually dismissing it as a document
it is important to understanding the culture of those that wrote it
but it's useless because all religion is useless

by madnessinmysoul
and christianity teaches that the 4 you listed would go to heaven if they simply repented at the end of their life and converted to christianity they'd go to heaven

I understand this about Gods forgiveness, through his personal sacrifice.

islam teaches that only the truely evil go to hell for eternity

This is where it gets a little confusing. What is 'Truly Evil'? Since God is perfection, He can't tolerate Any Evil. Only Forgiveness Through Sacrifice could bridge that Gap. And it was done of His Free Will.

But I digress, I understand that you are not here to defend Islam, since you are an Atheist. I am simply curious and ask too many questions sometimes!

Psalm 69: "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head;

John 15: But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Proverbs 8: But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Im sick of Jesus...

Jesus was right...There are those that hate him without cause.

Pretty sad when people hate a man who practiced and promoted love...

Peace

being sick of jesus doesn't mean you hate jesus

hell, i've been sick of chocolate in my life, but i don't HATE chocolate

here's hate with cause
i hate it when people twist around language to fit into a worldview in which they are both the majority and the victims

Do you mean like the war on terror?

Twised around to make it look like were the victim and the world wide view yet it really isnt the case. The coalition for...Coa who?

As far as Hate...heres the definition

Hate:

1 to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2. to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.
3. to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.
4. intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.
5. the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

I think Im sick qualifies as hate...speaking of twisting words..

The poster should say what he means and mean what he says.

Christs message of Love God and Love one another is simple math.

Do it, with humility and without elevation, and earth changes. You change as a person, in your heart and in your visions.

Until then,

Lord, do you see the person that starves every 3 seconds in your vineyard? Lord do you see the 600 million Homeless on the planet?

Genesis 6

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Its not the Lord that did not provide, for the vine is Green and the world is full of plenty...

If men do this when times are good, what will he do when times are hard?

When man approaches critical mass for planet and resources, this world could see some ugly moments if we dont start changing things now..

Peace



[edit on 5-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 5-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by angryScientist
I am so sick and tired of christens and especially Mormons.

Mormons aren't Christians. I take it you've been having problems with them preaching at you a lot, or maybe you're from a mormon family?

If you were to talk to a 'proper' Christian then I'm sure you'll find they're a lot different to what you've been used to.

Of course, you're American. Not very many proper Christians in that country, or at least the more vocal ones don't seem to be.

I've found that a lot of so-called 'Christians' don't even know what they're supposed to believe and it gets me sick of them as well, and I am a Christian!!

Edited to add:

What's all this stuff about Moses as well? He led the Israelites out of Egypt, but died before getting into the promised land. It was Joshua that led the army over the Jordan.

[edit on 5/1/07 by jimboman]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
mohammed wrote down the koran....

No he didn't. That and his other book (can't remember the name off-hand) were dictated by him throughout his life, so many sura's aren't even in order.

Islam 101.

Originally posted by angryScientist
I am so sick and tired of christens and especially Mormons. I am tired of of their belief that they are the ones that are right in 'gods eyes.'

Is there any form of religious belief in the history of humanity that doesn't believe they've got it right and the non-believers are headed straight for their version of hell?

The Romans and Greeks thought they had it right,didn't save their civilisations from disappearing.Talk to a traditional indigenous Australian,the Dreamtime of 40000 years ago is still their belief today,we modern people think,how quaint that they hang on to their backward ways...won't we all be surprised if we run into the Rainbow serpent in the afterlife?

Man created God (or gods) in his own image to assuage his fear of his own mortality.All cultures do it,they may have the details different but the belonging to something greater than yourself is the common theme.

I personally believe Jesus existed as a historical personage,did he preach love of one's fellow man?Most likely.Was he the son of God?I doubt it. Christianity is just the most successful cult of the last 2000 years.

The one thing that seems absolute is that once any belief system is formalised into an "organised religion",the message is lost and the organisation takes over.I personally believe the world will only progress once "Religion" (not spirituality) is banned.

Psalm 14

The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.

All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one

Until man abandons arrogance and self righteousness, he will never see peace.

Love of your fellow man, serve your fellow man. Perhaps then you will understand.

By serving your fellow man you serve God..

The alternative of not serving your fellow man is serving yourself. And when its all just about one person getting their own, well, anything goes.

Crime, slavery, oppression, usery, murder, war, hate..etc...

Christianity as an institution has been guilty of not carrying Christs full message.

Christianity as an institution is more concerned about the institution then Christs message of Feed my sheep. Both spiritually and physically.

The world of the unbeliever has been created by abuses from the believers.

But I will remind you of this...John 16:13

However, I am telling you the truth: It's good for you that I'm going away. If I don't go away, the helper won't come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 He will come to convict the world of sin, to show the world what has God's approval, and to convince the world that God judges it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 He will convict the world of sin, because people don't believe in me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 He will show the world what has God's approval, because I'm going to the Father and you won't see me anymore.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 He will convince the world that God judges it, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 "I have a lot more to tell you, but that would be too much for you now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into the full truth. He won't speak on his own. He will speak what he hears and will tell you about things to come.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 He will give me glory, because he will tell you what I say.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 Everything the Father says is also what I say. That is why I said, 'He will take what I say and tell it to you.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soften your heart before you harden it. Think of every person that you know and that you meet, as yourself.

Think of it...is it really so hard?

Peace

I'm sick of atheists, they should be burned at the stake.