Hate who you like, but eventually that hate will consume you and destroy you.

For myself there is no hate involved. How did debating an issue evolve to hate. It appears when ever an opinion is hard to bare it is deemed as hate when it should be viewed as clarifying facts.

So he asserts that the British royal family thinks they are the true jews in a weird magickal sense, which I don't really understand, but it's clear that the British royal family have been involved in occultic practices throughout their history.

As weird as it may sound they may very well be and also, the Romans could lay the same claim as the Jewish people have because they are decendants of Samuel the Hebrew prophet.

And, the Bible says in Matthew 3:9

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Also in Luke 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Which would mean that Christians who are children of Abraham have a God given right to their own land as well and or should be able to live in a society without being persecuted for their beliefs. God fearing people can not buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

One more important thing to remember, the most "sacred" tract of land to the 3 Abrahamic faiths (I use that term loosely) is this territory that has been called Palestine.

That is probably why the ancient landmark (gold dome) was blown up and each side is blaming the other.

Another thought, do the descendants of Solomon have a right to their own land?

Interesting, there are too many points which I am unfamiliar with to respond directly. There is an interesting notion that is alluded to with regard to the "Geula" (which means the redemption, this would be Hebrew eschatology), that mentions a group called the "Erav Rav" which I belive translates as the "mixed multitudes." According to jewish theology, this is a group that cleaved to and mixed in with the rest of the original jews, and are to the be the source of many problems for Yisrael (the term used for the Jewish people as a whole i ntheir own terminology, not Eretz Yisroel which means the land of Israel). Do a little googlesearch and see what you come up with regarding this notion of the Erav Rav, could be helpful in sorting out the ins and outs of this complicated issue. Also, I seem to remember the term Amalek from my studies some many years ago (I majored in Comparitive Religion some many years ago before I decided to change directions and go into film studies), although I don't remember what specifically this term means, it seems like it has some baring here as well.

I believe that the original story I was telling about the Jews receiving the Torah was either from the Talmud (not sure if it was the Babylonian or Yerushalayum Talmud) or possibly the Mishnehs, it has been a long time since I have studied either of those groups of texts.

So Orangetom, are you a christian minister of some sort? Just curious.

quoting Siren:
"For myself there is no hate involved. How did debating an issue evolve to hate. It appears when ever an opinion is hard to bare it is deemed as hate when it should be viewed as clarifying facts. "

I'm not sure that you clarified any facts, this all sounds largely like speculation on all sides. Perhaps you misunderstand me, I wasn't accusing anyone in particular of hating anyone else on this message board (although clearly there is some evident bias in different directions). The point I made, however, is still valid whether or not you accept it for yourself-- Hate is a fundamental characteristic of the human experience which I believe we as a unified race of Humans must overcome/correct/evolve out of with regards to each other, if there was a mutual respect (I realize this sounds like a pipe-dream) between the peoples of the world, there wouldn't be the need for these territorial pissing contests which keep popping up over and over throughout history.

to quote Siren once again:
"Which would mean that Christians who are children of Abraham have a God given right to their own land as well and or should be able to live in a society without being persecuted for their beliefs. God fearing people can not buy or sell without the mark of the beast. "

These two passages you quoted preceding the above comment are from the Greek Bible, or "New Testament", Matthew and Luke respectively. Being that they do not come from the Hebrew Bible, I can't say I necessarily agree with your usage within the context of the argument that christians have a right to the land either. I think many scholars will disagree with your assertion that christians are "Children of Abraham," I'm sure you are using this in some sort of metaphorical sense. Christianity was historically a messianic sect that broke off from Judaism and rejected much of the "Halaka" (jewish laws of the Torah), and introduced it's own set of religious practices. I don't want any christians here (which it sounds like there are quite a few) to think that I am somehow casting any aspersions on their faith (which they have the right to follow, just as a Jew or a Buddhist has to follow their own), but Christianity and Judaism are two completely different religions. Jews did not/do not accept this man called Jesus as their Moshiach (according to jewish textual sources there is a whole list of criteria that has to be met to qualify as being the Messiah, and many people have proclaimed falsely that they were this Messiah thoughout history). I'm not here to argue whether or not Jesus was the Messiah, that is a question of religious practice within a particular given religious system. The point I do want to make is that these two systems (Christianity and Judaism) are two rather starkly different systems altogether.

With regards to the mark of the beast, (which if we do see it I believe is more on the level of a self-fullfilling prophecy, it seems like the NWO likes to use Revelations as their playbook, and I don't think they are christians by any stretch of the imagination) then it's most likely possible that what people like Alex Jones have postulated about the Verichip could most certainly qualify as this "mark of the Beast" from Revelations in the Greek Bible.

Just wanted to give some feedback regarding your comments quoting one of my previous posts. I'm not here trying to be divisive, just trying to help clarify those issues that I have had some experience with regarding theological study. I largely don't think we're going to accomplish anything in this forum anyway, these problems have been going on for thousands of years, and despite how well meaning we may be, we're not in a position to solve any of these problems, I'm afraid.

Yes..I understand that you are trying to clarify and not promote hatred. No problem here. I feel the same way. I think the comments about hatred are mostly in line with this clarification..not promoting hatred. The posters are merely explaining what they understand to be some of the source of this historical hatred.

I am not a minister. I am merely someone who reads and asks questions when I have the time. In my reading and asking of questions I have acertained that there is much missing from our historys or knowlege of history. Our educations are incomplete. Also ...in qualifying that statement as I have said on many threads on ATS/BTS..there is much knowlege and history missing from many of my Christian bretheren..even about Christianity and the Bible.

I merely deduced from your topic and presentation that you had more than the standard understanding of history and religions. Shame that this is not so with more peoples. It might be a different world out here among the wildlife.

Intresting to me how much some peoples know about this topic and others do not outside of the standard issue M1A formats.

Also as Siren aptly posts..no hatred involved here..I have enough of my own baggage and problems here in this little plot of land such that I dont need or want to take on the baggage of others. No thanks. This is not justifying ignorance of the things not familiar to me....just stating that I am not intrested in those hatred type views.

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

Orangetom et al...

As a student of comparitive religions I must say that I have studied a lot of traditions, and found a lot of value in all sorts of theological thinking. I'm not going to name them all here, but I find value in the shared language of religious experience that manifests itself in all of the traditions around the world. Mysticism particularly, as this is the direct link between the Creator and the Creation. Judaism particularly aroused my soul while studying it, and I am not even a jew (so far as I know). It becomes a question of Universal Truth, and I think if there is any contained in christianity it is merely a reflection of the light within it's original source Judaism (a good correlation here would be the Sun to the Moon, the Moon reflects light from the Sun, although it is partial light). I was overcome by the beauty, mostly of the Zohar and texts of this nature, those innermost to the quantum-mechanics of the system. Judaism is based on science, and although you may be unaware, Jews believe in reincarnation (a lot of jew don't even know they believe in reincarnation). The system, once you get into it's inner teachings, are ellegant and beautiful, and contain much wisdom. There are many traditions which contain wisdom and beauty, mostly the eastern traditions according to my quasi-professional opinion. But we can blame the people trying to give the actual jews a bad name, or we can hassle those actually holding it down for their tradition. And to answer Siren, there is no way the British Royal Family could be the "true jews" because they are descended from bloodlines that are alien to the bloodlines of Yisrael. They are jealous of the covenant and want to claim it for themselves. Same as the Freemasons.

Let's put this thing to rest, i'm pressing my Irsali friends about the political goings on to get some opinions from the frontlines of that whole experience. As for those of us in the states, certainly we must seem arrogant for pointing our fingers at the Middle East when our leaders are the ones raping the land and sowing the seed of political dischord on those foreign shores.

As a final note: If you are thinking the Jews are to blame, look to the US and UN and ask what their motivation was for creating this puppet state called Israel. Then ask if this alleged state actually serves Yisrael. The answer should come to you directly. Stop blaming the Jews, they are patsys, the real criminals are the UN and the US, clearly.

-end transmission-

Intrested always,
I am going to show or illustrate to you how a talmudic teaching works. Now mind you ..I use the term Talmudic ..but it comes under different names in different religions. Talmud is the term I use. This is a term for a double standard.

In My King James Bible..about John 8:3 the Word speaks of a woman caught in adultery brought by the Pharisees before Jesus. Caught in the very act. Mind you here now...the Pharisees were known for boasting of the Law and that they kept he Law of Moses in all parts.

Here this woman is brought before Jesus to see how he would handle it. They did not care about the woman but were actually trying to entrap Jesus in a mistake concerning the handling of the Law.
Here Jesus is famous for His statement that "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

But something else of importance was going on here...very important and not often brought to the knowlege of the congregation even by preachers. They cannot be ignorant of this yet do not speak of it. There is a talmidic practice going on here. The double standard in that the Law of Moses says that they shall both be stoned. The Pharisees only brought the woman...yet she was caught in the very act. Why did they not bring the man. You cannot catch a woman in adultery without catching a man.

THe Law the Pharisees were keeping was that women get stoned for adultery and men do not. The Law of Moses says that they both shall be stoned. The Pharisees had switched Laws to something else ...privily and passed this off as the Law of Moses. They had also by this conduct also switched gods...and told no one. It is obvious that this double standard is not of the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

This is a counterfit practice of Gods Word...understand....it is of the counterfitter. Hence the admonition of Jesus on the Pharisees over and over..."Ye are of your father the devil and in this manner a liar from the begining."

This is Talmud. No matter who is doing it.

These are rules for getting around the rules...you must obey the rules for breaking the rules. Women get stoned for adultery and men do not. Once you see this and understand it ..you begin to understand how common this is even here in the states. Senators and Congressmen get a different standard than others...This is Royalty..feudalism. A class of people who can get away with conduct not done by others. This is what Talmud is in its workings...rules for getting around the rules. The secret is that most people are never educated in spotting it. So why would they know it even exists. They are dumb enought to think Godly justice and law are taking place.

This includes in our court systems where the sign, seal, step or word is used and often a case turns right around. Few are there who even know it happened. The Judges and lawyers know...but cannot tell. This is feudalism..a royal class among us that most dont even know exists.

This is Talmud.

The Monk cannot kill...but it is not killing if his eyes are closed.
A woman I knew told me that her boss who is Jewish cannot work on certain holidays. He can come to work..walking but no actual work can be done. She must send his correspondence under the door in a envelope..folded just so and not licked or sealed. He must open it just so so that no work can be done. He replys back to her in the same manner ...no work is being done ..understand.
I was astonished when I was told this. These are rules for getting around the rules.

It is very intresting when you hear these stories.

The Jews have no monopoly on this type of conduct.

Hexagram,
Yes I am familiar with many of the origins of the religions of the East. I have a olde copy of the Kaballah with charts and woodcuts in it. Intresting book if you can get far into it. Same with the Rig Veda. A serialized copy in my private collection. Very find paper and binding on this book. Not at all like the books published today. Amazing to me some of the workmanship done by some peoples before all this " High Tech."

Universal Truth is a concept I first identified while attempting to get through a book titled " Morals and Dogma " by Albert Pike. I was going through it the second time before the light bulb lit up so to speak and it dawned on me what it was for which he had been going on and on for so many chapters. This is a religious book if you can get through all the verbage in it. The word Talmud is also used in this book over and over along with other certain words. Zohar and Gemera..and Mishna.
This was when I realized that Freemasons are Talmudic.

The Sun and the Moon and the Master.

As to the British...and What is called British Israel..I know of it and the belief among certain Englishmen extending up into the Royals. The Order of the Garter is their particular version among the Royal Houses though they also have other branchs.
I too do not believe all this stuff about the Bitish relationship to the Hebrews and Israel.

It has come to my attention that the Orangemen are of the same origins..as are their opposition..Sien Fenn. They are talmudic.
I was stunned to realize this when I saw a parade of Orangemen going down the Catholic areas in all their finery and regelia. Tophats, Tuxedos, gloves and huge chains draped from thier necks and shoulders. This is the uniform of the Lodge. The Orangemen are a lodge..as are Sein Fenn
What you have here is one lodge fighting with another lodge. A catholic lodge verses a protestant lodge. That parade really opened my eyes to alot. What a dummy I was not to understand this for so long. I dont believe most peoples have a clue that this is a fight between two lodges. Even those doing the fighting..many of them.

By the way..I am not Irish..my name or handle here stems from my orange tabby cat...sorry to dissappoint some.!! LOL LOL LOL.

Anyway ..my point in all this long dissertation is that many of these Talmudic practices with origins in the Eastern religions are more prevelant
in Christianity than most peoples know. Especially Christians.
Also the origins of Christianity are not through Abraham...physically.
They are through the priesthood of Melchizadek. We are to remember and know of the patriarchs. The OLde Testament is our schoolmaster. But our priesthood is different. We are not under Levi. We are to know and understand certain things about the Law...but we are not under this bondage. Because our priesthood is not from Levi...but from Melchizadek. Nor is our priesthood from the Talmud. This is very important in discovering counterfits and counterfit doctrines.

A counterfit and counterfit doctrine or dogma is not the opposite of the real thing but as close to the real thing as possible so as to pass and susbtitute/superimpose for the real thing. A counterfit or knockoff muct be as close to ther real thing as possible for long enough to get people on the string. Otherwise people will know it is a counterfit or a knockoff. This is precisely what the Hebrews were recorded as doing over and over...and for which they were punnished many times. Buying into the counterfit. Many of the Christians are doing precisely the same thing today.
This type of passing for the real thing is also called "Occult" Esoteric..known only by a chosen few. It is more prevalent than people know. Much more prevalent.

One more thing...it is obvious to me that the UN is Talmudic..What do you think is going on in our White House and Congress..even in the Supreme Court? Think it through carefully. It becomes obvious that something has been hijacked, superimposed, counterfitted. Talmudized. And I mean no matter who is in office. No difference. Under a Talmudic system you can pull all the levers or push all the buttons in a voting booth you want..it will make no difference.

This means that talmudic light is different from Light. It is sad that even many Christians dont know this.

Wow...!! This thread is going a long way from its origin in the Jewish issues.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I was going to let that previous post be my last, but I'm afraid I don't exactly follow your usage of the term "talmudic." Let's clarify here:

Talmud: n. Judaism
The collection of ancient Rabbinic writings consisting of the Mishnah and the Gemara, constituting the basis of religious authority in Orthodox Judaism.

Um, I don't see how this applies to other religions as it is within the context of Orthodox Jewish religious philosophy/theology. I also am not convinced that the Talmud infers any sort of sense of a "double standard." Tom, you're obviously a christian, and that's fine, but I don't expect any christian to understand such a complex system such as judaism, since your authority comes from the KJV Greek Bible. Hebrew translations of the Torah are a little different than the one selected by the council of Trent. I'm not sure I follow why you think the Talmud is so evil, other than the fact that it wasn't included in your KJV Greek bible. What are your thoughts on the Apocrypha of the chrisitan bible (a fair amount of which is included in the catholic greek bible)? You are welcomed to have your opinion, but I believe you stating this as fact and not opinion is a little spurious, and gives people who have not read anything from the Talmud the wrong idea of what it is about. I don't understand why such a large majority of christians have such mistrust/disdain for the Jews, talk about holding a grudge (which sounds a little un-christian to me based on the teachings of jesus). The Talmud is largely a series of commentaries on Hebrew scripture, as well as moral teachings of the Rabbis, and specifically matters of Hebrew law. In fact it's actually based on a debate-oriented discourse, usually two students when studying the Talmud together will take opposing sides based on things that are written, and try to ascertain a higher understanding of what is in the text. I don't think it's evil. Guys like Pike and Weishupt I do not consider to be authorities on these texts, or much of anything for that matter, except perhaps attempting to perfect the art of enslaving the world. You are welcomed to have your opinion, of course, but the stuff I read in the Talmud didn't particularly convince me that the "Zionist Ocuupationalist Government" was going to come and kill the children of the gentiles, or drink their blood, or any of the other rediculous arguments I've heard from "Christian Identity" or other White Power organizations. It just doesn't stack up from my studies, and if I haven't mentioned it before, I am not jewish, just a scholar of all traditions (but with an interest in jewish theology), even your own sometimes short-sited christianity. I can even find value in that, believe it or not, so I'm not necessarily biased. I do rather prefer to go to the source, and if the source of christianity was judaism, then I tend to think that it comes on somewhat more athourity historically than sects that broke off from it. I believe even in your own tadition there are correlaries, like the church of Mormon (LDS- based directly on Masonic ritual), or the jehovah's witnesses (which I believe is regarded as a cult by mainstream christianity).

The next question becomes: What do you hope to achieve by insulting the Talmud? I don't see what benefit arises from this, if you are not jewish than it doesn't pertain to your particular religious expression or practice, so what are you so worried about? Best clean up your own house before casting stones on at your neighbor's house.

Alright, I'm going to shut up and let you guys take over this conversation, as it's getting a little stale. One final note:

quoting orangetom:
Hexagram,
Yes I am familiar with many of the origins of the religions of the East. I have a olde copy of the Kaballah with charts and woodcuts in it.

Um, the Kaballah is not a book, or even a series of books, it is a system which explains the metaphysical cause and effect that underlies the jewish laws and practices. It was an "oral tradition" passed down from teacher to student. It is esoteric stuff, and rather daunting to study if one doesn't already have an understanding of the system of judaism to begin with.

And to clarify, this crap out in LA that Madonna and other celebrities are espousing is a money making scam second only to Scientology. It is not authentic, and all of the rabbis I've spoken to about such matters have emphatically stated that Rabbi Phillip S. Berg is not considered Kosher, and does not represent what Kabballah is actually about. It is not a seperate religion, it is a system within a system, one explaining deeper underlying elements within the Jewish theology.

I couldn't believe my eyes or ears when I saw EnigmaTVs Illuminati 2 (The antichrist conspiracy) which had a whole section on Kabballah and said that rabbis drink children's blood and commit ritual sodomy and conjur up demons. They of course didn't give any sources (EnigmaTV are the same folks who brought us "Space Serpents" in their rather questionable documentary "Secret Space"-- once again, as with their other works, there is factual info mixed with blatant misinformation in my humble opinion, designed to make us all look like wackos). Drinking or comsuming blood, be it animal or human is strictly forbidden by Jewish law. Homosexuality is also forbidden by jewish law (I'm not saying I particularly agree with this, and no I am not even close to being gay for the record, but that is what the law says, I don't make the law, I just study the law). Witchcraft is also expressly forbidden. So I'm not sure where these guys came up with this stuff. There is a real agenda out there, perhaps steming from some very dark forces, which has sought to defame and desecrate the Jewish people and their religion throughout history. Maybe there is something of value there sense so many people fear or hate the Jewish people for reasons that don't make any sense (except on a purely emotional level). Just my 2 cents, good luck on your studies, and try to keep an open mind when approaching other's religious traditions you don't understand, mutual respect is in short supply in this world, and I think that's pretty obvious. Peace.

Hexagram,

Wow!! Sorry to get you so worked up. I am refering to the "pattern" of operation here ...all of this I refer to as Talmudic...whether done by the Jews or others.

You refered to the catholics. They too are allowed to be talmudic in certain instances and directions from their priesthood. Are all Catholics or Jews like this ..no they are not. I am aware that not all practice this talmudic double standard within any religion. I merely use the term Talmudic or Talmud to refer to this pattern ..among many different peoples.

The point here is that the observer be aware that this dogma exists. It is up to us to be aware whether certain peoples practice this in thier daily lives or not.

You are not telling me in your posts that this pattern and practice does not exist. I understand this clearly. The matter at issue here in my mind is do other readers understand this concept as well.

As I have stated several times the Jews have no monopoly on this type of conduct. Now that I know certain things or patterns of which to look I have seen it operating even in our courtrooms.

Madonna...good grief.. Yes I agree...I knew when that drivel broke the news there were going to be many wanabees..including her. I never cared for her from the begining. Someone is playing her and hollywood like a fish..just as they played many people in 1880s through the 1920s with all the Swamis and mystics. This was quite popular back then.

As to those other Illuminati programs I have seen none of them. I know enough to understand that anything of real value will not be on television...or at least out in the open....for the profane to see.
I have not seen Enigma TV..I assume it is a certain station or format on cable. I havent had the privilege. However from your brief discription I am sure I can pass on this privilege as I get the same on these history and discovery programs on UFO and other dramatic specuations...or perhapsed I should say dramatizations.

As to insulting the Talmud...that is your interpretation. I insult any type of usage of this double standard. My example from the woman caught in adultery is plain. I refer to not just the Jews doing this but others too. As I clearly stated..the Jews have no monopoly on this dogma. They have competition from others also using it. Sorry if you interpreted it in light of what you know about the Talmud. I refer once again to any such dogma no matter who uses this as ...not just the Hebrews.

Im afraid I dont put much stock in the Council of Trent or the Council of Nicea. Never did other than it was a event in history.
As to the Apocrypha ..no thanks...dont put much stock in those books either. Macabees , Tobit, Bel and the Dragon..etc etc..no thanks.

Yes ..correct as I understand it too..the Talmud is a series of commentarys of the Rabbis...on scripture. Moral teachings of the Rabbis too. I should tell you that I am not particularly intrested in the commentarys of the Rabbis. I am more intrested in what the Word itself says..also the moral teachings of the Word.
This is one of the problems with the Muslims too. They listen to the teachings/commentarys of their religious leaders. Not necessarily the Word of God. Such as the Haddith...a commentary.
However to be fair..I am also aware that the Christians have thier Talmuds too...commentarys...One is a large extensive work like an encyclopedia...similar to the Talmud..called ......Matthew Henry. You see as I stated ...the Jews have no monopoly on Talmud. They too have competition.

Wow...surprised that you know about Mormonism..and its connection to Masonic Ritual. I have learned that it is what is called clandestine Masonry.
I did not realize this till I saw some pictures from certain temples and there were the beehives. Right out of lexicon.

'Sorry .I dont go along with all that drama of Zionists drinking blood and other histronics. You can find some of that rubbish out of the seperatists groups out west. Not intrested in such here. Nor that drama from the White groups all across this country. They too are bottom feeding in drama. I just dont care for drama queens. You are talking to a Heinz 57 here. I dont put much stock in race no matter whose..even Jews. To me it has always been about character..internal character...no matter to whom I am speaking.

However ..I will declare one thing to the uninformed. What I have learned from history and other readings is that religion is the most powerful political force possible among men. It can be used in molding and guiding men to be better peoples or misused to create monsters.
It is "the" political force with which to be reckoned. Always has been and always will be.

This Faith will be tested severely with the Muslims in the future. I have no doubt about this.

Thanks for your posts.
Sorry to see you have interpreted my meaning of the Talmud in this manner.

Orangetom

They are through the priesthood of Melchizadek.

Do you know where I can find more information on Melchizadek? I know that he was King of Salem and Abraham gave him tithes, but, other than that I have found very little information.

Originally posted by Siren

They are through the priesthood of Melchizadek.

Do you know where I can find more information on Melchizadek? I know that he was King of Salem and Abraham gave him tithes, but, other than that I have found very little information.

There are various postings on the web about Melchazidek. I use caution when reading them as many are very skillfully done.

What I know about Melchizadek of importance can be found in Genisis and in the Epistles of Paul in both the Olde and New Testaments from my King James Version of the Bible.
What the Apostle Paul goes to lengths to let us know in the New Testament is that the Priesthood of Jesus the Christ is not after Levi ..but after an everlasting priesthood of Melchizadek. This is in Hebrews about Chapters 5,6,and 7. Hebrews is important in that Paul was a Hebrew and is in the chapter of Hebrews speaking to Hebrews. Consequently Paul uses more Olde Testament in Hebrews than he would in speaking to non Hebrews as these non Hebrews would not be familiar with that of which Paul was speaking. Hebrews with their Olde Testament backgroud would be very familiar with his words. This is very noticable when contrasted with the other Epistles.
This what Paul declares here in Hebrews is quite different from what is implied in many churchs today. That we are after Levi. Not so but after Melchizadek.

Hope this helps.
Orangetom

We jews are hiding something, what it is, I don't know, why it is we are hding it I don't know. America is sending the most money to isreal because they are surrounded by countries that hate it, (also they made the mac-10, and the desert eagel)

Originally posted by fnord
We jews are hiding something, what it is, I don't know, why it is we are hding it I don't know. America is sending the most money to isreal because they are surrounded by countries that hate it, (also they made the mac-10, and the desert eagel)

The Jews have no monopoly on hiding anything. They have lots of competition from others.
I build submarines for a living...aircraft carriers too. I do know one thing about submarines..they are very good at hiding and also spying...even on ourselves.

This is America..we spy on everyone ..friend and foe. You can take that to the bank. That includes Israel.

I never wanted to own a Mac 10 or a desert eagle..there are so many other tools available ..even better made at a more affordable price.
Also better performing.

All nations spy on other nations...friend and foe. This not new news or information. It is just that most people never bother to think it through. Why should they ..they have sports drivel and television and movies to substitute for real thinking.

This world is designed to keep us from thinking a thing through and instead substitute our thinking with placebos...sugar pills so that we feel good about ourselves...according to the program schedule. Nothing new here.

Thanks,
Orangetom

us jews are totally hiding something...the secret to winning at monopoly.

[please delete this post, I was way out]

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Raud]