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First Council of Nicaea decided all about christian belief

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posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The reason Christians go on with the idea that Jesus is God, is because he is. Can a non believer grasp the fact that the Romans were trying to kill all Christians and now were in charge of the movement..................HELLO.................WAKE UP.

I wasn't really referring to the Crusades. I suppose it's convenient for all non-catholics to have a scapegoat to blame when things go wrong, but the other denominations aren't much better off. I doubt there is a single denomination of Christianity that is free from bloodshed. Oh sure, when they kill, one would say "But, they're not true Christians!", but it seems to me that there was only one "true Christian", and he was a Jew.

The idea that Jesus was the same as God was cemented during the Council of Nicea. It was voted by a tremendous majority by the Romans you seem to hate so much, and all other creeds made heresy. Before that there was the idea that Jesus was the same as God, that Jesus was derived from God, that Jesus was conferred divinity at the beginning of time, that Jesus was conferred divinity when he was concieved in Mary's womb; all these ideas were living together. Is the "true Christian" who at that time believing that Jesus was conferred divinity when he was concieved going to hell? Was the "true Christian" who was killed for this belief by the "evil Romans" going to hell?

posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 01:51 PM
What do you make of this....

Jesus says, "before Abraham was, I Am

or maybe this...

And here it was that one, the Prince of Peace, the king of Salim, came; the Christ in human form; a greater far than Abraham was he. 13 And here it was that Abraham gave to this king of Salim, tithes of all he had. 14 This Prince of Peace went forth in battle everywhere. He had no sword; no armour of defence; no weoapons of offence; 15 And yet he conquered men, and nations trembled at his feet. 16 The hosts of Egypt quailed before this sturdy king of right; the kings of Egypt placed their crowns upon his head, 17 And gave into his hands the sceptre of all Egypt land, and not a drop of blood was shed, and not a captive placed in chains; 18 But everywhere the conqueror threw wide the prison doors and set the captives free...

Christ came during the time of Abraham? isnt this Melchezedek?

Is who you are more importand then what you do?

Gods actions, and Christ actions...versus God or Christs certificate of Authenticity? LOL...

What is their will? does that mean nothing? Get over who God and Christ is, for they are...whether they be one in the same, or separate divinitys, or separate but combined...

what matters was Christs request...

To do for your fellow man or woman, is to do the will of God


[edit on 25-12-2006 by HIFIGUY]

posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 08:34 PM
I am not really refering to the crusaded either. Though I am quite aware that the Christian Church has no New Testament instruction to carry out a crusade. I therefore surmise that any institution wishing to justify a Crusade must be going outside the Word for such justification. In otherwords they are conducting themselves by a doctrine outside of Christian instruction. Non Christian. This is very plain to me. Therefore they are Non Christian. THey have somehow hijacked the Christian doctrine and substituted non christian doctrine and practice for Christianity.
This is also the fingerprint of what the Hebrews are recorded as doing in the Olde Testament...and into the New Testament. This is sometimes refered to as the "Traditions of Men." THere is nothing new happening here ..even today. You just have to school yourself to uncover the fingerprints.

It is standard M1A predictability for many non believers to quote the Crusades as applying to all Christianity. This is false and misleading.
THe sad truth is that many Believers dont know enough history or even Bible to reply back to them and are effectively neurtalized by this tack.
Very Sad.

Agree with Hammerheads previous post that there is much ignorance among many Christians of whatever label they tend to use to describe their various denominations. They seem to have no clue to Christian history much less any other history hence it is very easy to infiltrate them with Pagan customs and practice without thier even being aware of it.
When I became aware of this I quit many of the "Traditions of Men" for which so many of us take for granted as being Christian. I no longer celebrate Christmas, Easter, or even birthdays. Most certainly I dont celebrate Halloween.
I am not sure if it was Hammerhead or another poster who quoted that December 25th is of Pagan origin...they are quite correct.

If you care to educate yourself you can find this history in

Alexander Hislop's " The Two Babylons"

Many of the origns of our holidays can be found here in this lengthy and difficult to read book.

THe key to understanding this "Hijacking " of Christian dicipline and knowlege is knowing that neither in the Olde Testament nor the New Testament do you ever find any instruction that Gods people were to celebrate a birthday. Birthdays are a Pagan Custom....not for the Hebrews or the Christians. You will find no such instruction.
THis custom and tradition can only enter by infiltration and seduction.

This can only be a tradition about which Jesus and the Apostles warned us.
Just as is bring a tree in the house and nailing it up then decorating it with silver and gold.

The Christian tradition and custom is to be focused on the Death of Jesus. The reason he died. For us..and our sins...not his birth. And this remembrance ..every day...all day. A total reversal of what we see happening today.

The sad truth about this is that many preachers and pastors know this history but dont dare teach this to thier congregations.

THat Jesus was God was known and glorified before the Council of Nicea. There were always Churchs in possession of the Truth before 325 AD. They were independent churchs begining in the Mid East and into North Africa. Many of these independent Churchs were killed off in North Africa under the Diocletian presecutions about 200 AD. Surviving Churchs spread up through Turkey and into Eastern Europe and eventually in to the Alps and into France. THese churchs never allied themselves with Rome..never. They too were persecuted by Rome. We know of them by the records kept by Rome of how many they killed. Their story can be found in John Foxx and his "Book of Martyrs."

One more thing for the Protestant/Catholic types...none of these churchs affiliated themselves with the Protestants or the Catholics. They were around before Martin Luther. Like the Hebrews of olde...they were always a minority surruounded by the Wildlife of this world who hated them. This has not changed today. They are still a minority.

Protestant is a term used by people in ignorance who like to label anyone not Catholic so as to confine them to a man made label. There are believers out here who are other than Protestant and Catholic.

When you read and understand the history you can nullify much of this "Scapegoat" mentality whether it is practiced by Protestant or Catholic denominations.

Intresting thread begun here.

Thanks to all for thier posts,

posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 09:12 PM

Originally posted by babloyi
The idea that Jesus was the same as God was cemented during the Council of Nicea.

Your statement is false. The belief that Jesus was God occured because he was healing people, feeding thousands with a handfull of loaves and fishes and raising people from the dead.

The idea was CEMENTED when Jesus himself rose from the dead. This so called vote you talk about (without looking it up to verify) was something like 318 to 3.

This attack on the truth is nothing new and continues to this day by those that haven't searched out the truth.

posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 09:58 PM
sun matrix

Christ was never thought to be God while he was working in His ministry. He was called Teacher, Prophet and Master. Even when He asked Peter who He was, Peter said the Son of God. Christ never even called Himself God. What He did say is if you have seen me then you have seen the Father. The Jews of the time didn't even recongnize that He was the messiah. The vote of the council was more about His divinity than Him being God. The difference between being sent of God and being God. It's an authority issue. There is no doubt about Christ divinity. Christ on earth was very much a man, he recieved the Spirit of God when the Dove decended upon him. For a lack of any other way to say it, Christ was filled with the Holy Ghost. The same way people are filled with the Holy Ghost today. When a person is filled with God's spirit and it shows through, effectively they are looking at God as much as they are looking at that person. Pretty sobering. Yes we are ambassators of God. Questions about The Trinity Docterine VS the Oneness Docterine can cause fits, and I would never tell anyone what they have to believe. The key to understanding the difference between the two docterines is to simply open your Bible and begin to read. Moreover, pray for understanding of what your reading. A good place to start is 1st John 1-1. I think you'll find that Christ was around since the begining. He did say is was the Alpha and Omega. Anyway, it wasn't a revelation of Godhood through a few miracles, but through a spiritual revelation. Which could only come from the Spirit of God, A.K.A the Holy Ghost.


posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 10:24 PM
HH, a tidbit of info.

The earliest followers of Jesus all seemed pretty convinced that Jesus was fully God in human form. Paul said, "He is the image of the invisible him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell." John said that Jesus created the world. Peter said, "every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

But what did Jesus say about himself? Did he ever identify himself as God? According to the Bible...absolutely! Below are some of his statements made while on earth, in their context.

Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God:
The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)

And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

If they didn't believe Jesus to be God, someone should tell John.........AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US.

You were dead on with the Babylon religion link......missed the mark here.

posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 10:54 PM
sure i agree with you, but what you said was they (the Jew during that time) believed He was God because of the miracles He perfomed. It was because of the Miracles and His testament they (Pharisees) wanted to stone Him. The Jews of the time were looking for the Messiah, a king to rule here on earth. It was a political motivation that tempted them into short sightedness. Those who followed Christ surely believed in His divinity. But they didn't gain understanding or access to the fullness of the God Head until they recieved power from on high. Again, the fullness of Christ comes in the form of the Holy Ghost. Christ did not recieve the fullness of the God Head until God's spirit was given to him. I never said that Christ was not God, what I said was he never came out and said it in plain language. Yes He decidedly identified Himself as a part of the God Head, but not the entirity of. Hence the reason for confusion about the Trinity Docterine and Oneness Docterine. It comes down to a authority thing again. Christ was sent to do the will of God. God wasn't talking to Himself when He told Christ to go his will, and Christ wasn't talking to Himself when he said not My will, but Your's will be done. The thing that ties God and Christ together is the Holy Ghost. Check up on the day of Penticost. No I am not trying to get anyone to convert to anything. But the day of Penticost is where the Church ( you and me) recieved power from on high. This is how we become partakers in the promises of God -Through the Holy Ghost. The same Spirit God gave Christ is the same Spirit he gives us.


posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 01:01 AM

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Your statement is false. The belief that Jesus was God occured because he was healing people, feeding thousands with a handfull of loaves and fishes and raising people from the dead.

He was doing WHAT?!

From the bit you quoted:

Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)

Jesus did NOTHING on his own. He admitted that freely. EVERYTHING he did came from the Father. Do we take Moses as God because he split the the sea and saved his people? Because he made a staff a snake? NO! All those things came from God. Even the disciples had the power to heal people. Jesus even told them that they could RESURRECT THE DEAD if they fasted and prayed. ANYONE could, according to Jesus, heal the sick and resurrect the dead, as if by miracle. It shows the level of faith in the world today that so few still have this power. However, even if they do, they are not God.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The idea was CEMENTED when Jesus himself rose from the dead. This so called vote you talk about (without looking it up to verify) was something like 318 to 3.

The 318 to 3 vote was carried out by the Romans who you distrust so much. The same Romans who put the Sabbath on Saturday. Do you agree to one decision, but disregard the other? You seem very selective in your 'truth'.

About the site you quoted to show Jesus was God, first off, I'd hardly call Paul among 'the earliest followers of Jesus'. That being as it may, you'll notice that even the site says Jesus 'implied' he was God (according to them, at least). If Jesus was God, that would be an eternal truth. He'd say it directly, without any parables or implications. Parables are there so that the message of the Bible would be understood for all time. Something like "I am God" doesn't need to be mish-mashed about. Jesus never said he was God. That is a fact.

[edit on 27-12-2006 by babloyi]

posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 01:03 AM
God's laws are written on all men's hearts - so it's fair.

They had to switch over to appease the masses.

Not even Romans believed in Roman Gods.

posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 11:20 PM
In other words..

Live a lie to appease the ways of the masses?

If there something in scripture that doesnt agree with our economy or our
culture then it needs to be edited?

Read this..and see if that isnt what possibly happened..

Especially the Introduction..Dont just glance at it..Read It!!


posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 05:35 PM

Originally posted by merky
First Council of Nicaea almost 400 years after Jesus died, decided by vote what was going to be taught to the people....

That is rather misleading, actually. They got together to sort out disputes in the church at Alexandria over the homoousion, and to harmonise the date of Easter. The Orwellian ideas in the above were not present at that time.

They also decided what is in the Bible and what is left out for your own sake.

I'm afraid that this idea is a myth. They had no such concerns.

Do they not still control you with fear??

Who? The CHURCH? Not compared to the Inland Revenue!

BTW...before you ask for's all part of recorded Roman history. You do know the Roman's kept pretty good written records....correct?

Well, I have a pretty good idea of what "Roman records" survive, and I wonder a bit at what you write, since none of them discuss all this. I suspect you've read something that said this? Sadly, as I said, for some reason people make up stuff on this -- certainly the Da Vinci Code did.

But surely Wikipedia is just a digest of hearsay, as edited by the weenie who fought hardest? Whether you trust something of that nature I don't know. But the last time I looked, it didn't tell this story anyway.

Instead I would always consult the primary sources on the Council:

I hope that helps.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 10:27 PM
The Creation of the Bible is an interesting topic. Even more so is why the particular texts were or were not chosen.

I think we can all agree, that not being published writers, that if any of us had any sort of a Divine event happen to us, that writing it down and describing what happened would be difficult at best. One merely needs to try and write their dreams down after they happened..and the word of..." Just what exactly did I see " will crop up. We reflect, and do our best.

I would suggest reading some of the following links I have posted. Very interesting indeed. Here are some quotes from the links...

Regarding Biblical Corruption:

"The manuscripts of the New Testament preserve traces of two kinds of dogmatic alterations: those which involve the elimination or alteration of what was regarded as doctrinally unacceptable or inconvenient, and those which introduce into the Scriptures proof for a favorite theological tenet or practice".

Then..Regarding Un Modified Texts found in Tibet..A personal Favorite that really shows a compassionate Christ and in my opinion, closer to showing the real Love of Christ.

Rev. Ouseley writes:
"The early Christian Fathers did well their work of destroying the sources and records from which they gathered the information and data put by them in the Bible. But they failed to destroy it all. Some escaped, and as it is discovered here and there by patient research workers, it is astonishing to see how the world has been deceived by the Christian Fathers.


and the 60 Canons..

and of course..

Text that arent Canon..they were just lost and Forgotten..

The Acts of The Apostle Thomas
The Apocalypse of Peter
The Apocalypse of Paul
The Book of Enoch
Eugnostos the Blessed
The Book of James - Protevangelium
The Book of Jubilees
The Dialogue of the Saviour
The Didache: Teachings of the 12 Apostles
The Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle to the Laodiceans
The Essenes and The Dead Sea Scrolls
The Essene Gospel of Peace
The Essene Book of Revelation
The Forgotten Books of Eden: First and Second Book of Adam and Eve:
The Gospel of the Egyptians
The Gospel of Mary Magdalene.
The Gospel of the Nativity of Mary
The Gospel of Nicodemus
The Gospel of The Perfect Life / Holy (12) Twelve
The Gospel of Philip
The Gospel of Thomas
The Gospel of Truth
The Heavenly Prince Melchizedek
The Lost Gospel of Peter
The Sophia (Wisdom) of Jesus
The Lost Years of Jesus
The Testament of Abraham
The Treatise on the Resurrection

At What point do we start looking at the Spirit of the Text. The Spirit of Christ, and what was the purpose of Jesus.

Good people know what Good is.....

I think anyone in this post, should sit and read all the stuff about Christ.
Then...after you have got a feeling for what he was saying, you will notice many of the different writing styles. Things will jump out at you that sound not like him, too complicated, or possible just plain poor writing and or interpretation.

Bottom Line...No matter what...

Love your God. Without him, we would not be.
God Loves you
Christ loves you
Love One another
Do Good for your fellow man
Realize Death is not the end
Realize that you are saved through him
God and Christ is with you at all times
There will be a time when things will change when no one expects it

Start being Like Christ in Little ways. Little things will turn up that you might have done otherwise, but suddenly you know what Christ would have done...

Therein is the Litmus..what would have Christ Done?

Try to Be like him.

Then when you read, over time, the scripture will call out to you. And your life will change.

When your life changes, the world around you changes. And when more and more people try and be like Christ, well then the world becomes mores as " On Earth as it is in heaven "

The process starts with you


[edit on 20-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]

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