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Roman Catholic Church denies funeral for Italian man

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posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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Friday, the Catholic Church refused to allow a funeral service for Piergiogio, then paralyzed from muscular dystrophy, after doctors removed his respirator. The Church's heavy influence on Italian politics demands that euthanasia should be negated. In this case, the Church felt that Piergiogio's decision was equal to suicide, and did not warrant the Church's blessings.
 



news.yahoo.com
ROME - The Roman Catholic Church on Friday denied a religious funeral for the paralyzed Italian author who died after a doctor disconnected his respirator, saying it would treat his public wish to "end his life" as a willful suicide.

Piergiogio Welby's widow, who defended the doctor's decision, said the family would hold a lay funeral for him on Sunday if the church denied rites. Anti-euthanasia campaigners and some right-wing newspapers have described Welby's death as murder.

"For me it was not a murder, absolutely. Piero died naturally, falling asleep and giving back his soul to the creator," Mina Welby said.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


The man was already dying. The respirator was the only thing keeping him alive, meaning that it was an artificial means of self consciousness. If the respirator had no been present in the first place, would it still count as a suicide, if he chose not to use it? Sadly, the man's family is in great disappointment, due to the Church's decision.

What seems most likely to occur as an outcome of this decision is what Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan said would happen if it is found that "the respirator constituted extraordinary means, it could be removed, in line with Vatican teaching."

[edit on 22-12-2006 by DJMessiah]

[edit on 22/12/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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I thought a respirator was an "extraordinary measure" not required under Catholic conventions (wheareas a feeding tube is not and shouldn't be removed).

Did they change their rules or am I mistaken?



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:55 PM
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LoL ... If you think you can judge a man's heart ... You are so MISTAKEN ...



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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First of all he was not denied a funeral, he was denied a Catholic funeral. He can be buried where ever he wants, except in a Catholic cemetary. What's the issue here? If you kill yourself, you don't get one either.

It is not currently covered under the conventions, apparently. Therefore, why should he recieve a Catholic funeral? Maybe the rules will change, and he can be remembered forever as the catalyst for the change. Otherwise, its the Church's rules, and not the place of government to force them to change them.

I would suggest a change of the title. It looks as though it is implying that the Catholic church is not allowing a man to be buried.

[edit on 12/22/06 by niteboy82]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 05:28 PM
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Seems to me the Vatican just may be positioning to take a stand on Pandemic Policies and triage.

...An apparent trend in Pandemic Triage Policy is to allow euthanasia by denying treatment.

This could get very interesting.

Like maybe the church might actually work to protect people for a change, not just prop up monarchies and regimes.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 05:28 AM
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Gee the Catholic Church is showing its true colors and how little they really care about people. All the guy wanted to do was die with dignity and rather then keeping there mouth shut they deprive the guy of a funeral that reflects his belief system.

If only should be denied a Catholic funeral it is the church leaders who sexually abused children.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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Well, according to my priest the respirator constitues extraordinary methods and therefore not using it isn't considered suicide. Also not all suicides are denied Catholic services contrary to popular opinion. If the sucide was mentally incapable of determining right from wrong due to mental illness then they are indeed able to have a Catholic service. Denial of last rites and a funeral Mass is an extreme measure.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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I don't recall where in the Bible it says that sucides are ok if your mentally unfit. That's a man's rule. But I don't want to get into the silly Bible.

Let's get to the crux of the matter. The only people who are bothered by this are the survivors. I guarantee you that the author that died, doesn't give a hoot what kind of funeral he gets.

I don't believe the kind of funeral your given, influences where you go after you die.


In fact, you don't need a funeral at all. lol. Silly living people.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by niteboy82
What's the issue here? If you kill yourself, you don't get one either.



How did he kill himself if he couldn't breathe without artifical help?
These "end of life times" are hard enough on families, trust me. I have seen many get last rites as they are about to get life sustaining services removed in a hospital. When does prolonging life start to become prolonging the dying?

If the only way you can survive is by getting a permanent feeding tube or having a respirator on with no hope of recovery, what would you do in that situation? Would you want to be trapped in a body that doesn't respond to you own commands? It's a very difficult choice to make, even more so if the family members have to decide. That's why we have health care directives/ Living wills in the U.S.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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It's almost like the Catholic church is saying if you aren't buried here you aren't making it to Heaven or what not .. But then again they believe in a middle place and taking Hail Marry's for your sins ... Maybe before jesus died but not so much anymore ...



Originally posted by xpert11
Gee the Catholic Church is showing its true colors and how little they really care about people. All the guy wanted to do was die with dignity and rather then keeping there mouth shut they deprive the guy of a funeral that reflects his belief system.

If only should be denied a Catholic funeral it is the church leaders who sexually abused children.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
How did he kill himself if he couldn't breathe without artifical help?


My opinion on this doesn't matter. The Church's opinion on this is what matters. I never said he killed himself by my standpoint. I'm just not going to tell the Catholic Church what to do, because it isn't my business to tell a private organization how they should run their business when it isn't harming anyone. And though I don't believe in any of the afterlife stuff, if there is one, I doubt being buried in a Catholic grave is going to affect his outcome.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Hello one and all. i am a newbie here. would like to comment on the Catholick church. Don't mean to offend anyone out there but IMHO that church and that organization needs a MAJOR OVERHAUL. And i mean major. Can't see how a church like this can continue unabated.

anyway, i am interested in reading from the various bulletin boards that abound here. Thanks for letting me in the door and hopefully i can interact from time to time. I am mainly a reader and will be out there in cyberspace reading and trying to understand what is going on around me. After 34 years of work it is interesting what i have been missing. mainly the TRUTH, i guess.

Guadalupe Joe


L3X

posted on Dec, 24 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Vatican in Italy is a plague, it should be moved on Bermuda's Triangle

However, the "laic funeral" has been celebrated in Don Bosco's Square (Rome, Italy)


[edit on 24-12-2006 by L3X]



posted on Dec, 24 2006 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by niteboy82
First of all he was not denied a funeral, he was denied a Catholic funeral. He can be buried where ever he wants, except in a Catholic cemetary. What's the issue here? If you kill yourself, you don't get one either.

It is not currently covered under the conventions, apparently. Therefore, why should he recieve a Catholic funeral? Maybe the rules will change, and he can be remembered forever as the catalyst for the change. Otherwise, its the Church's rules, and not the place of government to force them to change them.

I would suggest a change of the title. It looks as though it is implying that the Catholic church is not allowing a man to be buried.

[edit on 12/22/06 by niteboy82]

I think these laws and edicts vary from country to country, Cardinal to Cardinal, Bishop to Bishop and Priest to Priest.
Because I know of 2 suicide victims who have had a requiem mass and were buried in Consecrated ground. 2 of my relatives died in similar circumstances as the man in this case and had a requiem Mass and buried in consecrated ground.
A friend in the US was threatened with excommunication if she went through with IVF.
Here in Ireland another friend of mine was supported every step of the way by her local Parish Priest.
A visit to any Catholic cemetry in the North of Ireland and you will see the graves of dozens of murders.
Canon Law is changing as regards suicide and medical interventions. As we progress in research the Church has to change also.
I think this is just a particularly bad case and generally not the norm.



posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by nextguyinline
I don't recall where in the Bible it says that sucides are ok if your mentally unfit.


I believe the issue at hand is whether or not this is regarded as "suicide," not if suicide is advocated by the Bible. The man clearly could not live without an artificial means of support. If the technology had not been present, would he have been alive for so long? No.

Either way the Church looks at it, the man was placed in a 'double-edged sword' situation, where he could have originally chosen not to use the equipment, which could be viewed as suicide, or he could have chosen to cheat death by having only part of his body be kept alive through a machine. I think if he did not choose to use the machine in the first place, the Church would have to also consider those who rely solely only on faith to heal (faith healing), rather than conventional medicine as suicide as well, because they risked their lives by not taking the better treatment.



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by nextguyinline
I don't recall where in the Bible it says that sucides are ok if your mentally unfit.


I believe the issue at hand is whether or not this is regarded as "suicide," not if suicide is advocated by the Bible. The man clearly could not live without an artificial means of support. If the technology had not been present, would he have been alive for so long? No.

Either way the Church looks at it, the man was placed in a 'double-edged sword' situation, where he could have originally chosen not to use the equipment, which could be viewed as suicide, or he could have chosen to cheat death by having only part of his body be kept alive through a machine. I think if he did not choose to use the machine in the first place, the Church would have to also consider those who rely solely only on faith to heal (faith healing), rather than conventional medicine as suicide as well, because they risked their lives by not taking the better treatment.


I think the issue we have here is did he give his permission for the respirator? Most respirators are used in the case of respiratory arrest the person involved will be unconcious and therefore unable to give informed consent.
So in the majority of cases it should be a legal case between medical ethics V RC church.
How many people everyday are put on respirators and then taken off again by doctors because after brain stem tests there is no sign of life.
These people have never given their consent. Though their families may give consent to the respirators being turned off. Are the families murderers?
It is a very difficult case/situation.



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