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Some members of ATS......

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posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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Has anyone else noticed that some members are almost always spewing hatred against muslims. In almost every thread even minutely about muslims or Islam and you see these people talking totally biased crap.

Also, some of them post articles off the internet with no credibility watsoever and quote articles with authors who are obvsiouly Islam haeters like them.

I can bet these people have never even met a muslim or have no idea of Islam. They probably never even visited middle east or any muslim country and all their propoganda BS comes from FOX news and internet.

Its amazing to see that these people freely bash muslims and Islam all the time and they are gone unnoticed most of the time. I dont know if people try to just ignore them or just turn a blind eye.

This is a place for discussion of topics, including sensitive ones but these people have no regard or respect for anyone else's beliefs or opinions.

I saw so many posts in which if there is even a slight mention of a muslim you will see one of these guys talking so much crap about Islam and openly insulting muslims and sterotyping arabs, etc. Even if they do not attack personally all the time, why are they allowed to spew biased irrelevant views without any solid proof. For example, if there is a post about a rapist and by chance if the rapist is a muslim, then these people start talking about how Islam permits to rape, or how muslims have no control and live in tents and should go back to their sand filled country, etc.

That is just pure ignorant BS which I am surprised that the MODS on ATS allow. We cannot swear at a member because it is disrepectful, but these members are given the liberty to spew stereotype disrespectful biased image all the time.

I dont understand why.




(Mod edit: Member names and examples removed. Let's try not to make it too personal. -- Majic)


[edit on 12/21/2006 by Majic]




posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by silencer
That is just pure ignorant BS which I am surprised that the MODS on ATS allow. We cannot swear at a member because it is disrepectful, but these members are given the liberty to spew stereotype disrespectful biased image all the time.


Oh! you mean they have the liberty to say what they want even though you disagree with it? :shk:

Hypocrisy on ATS has always been a problem. I always said that if you dont buy into the party line here at ATS, you will be censored.

This use to be true, but ATS has gotten better because it no longer censors opinions that some people dont agree with.



I dont understand why.


Maybe because we are fighting a war with them?

BTW, there is little difference between mainstream islam and militant islam. Many apologists dont seem to understand this.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:08 PM
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But personal attacks are ok?

as my niece says:
"whatevah"

Believe it or not..A lot of people have a problem with religious extremism..of all types...which ones are we allowed to talk about?



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Oh! you mean they have the liberty to say what they want even though you disagree with it? :shk:


Nice try at twisting my words but read my post again. I have a problem with people sterortyping and making claims about Islam and muslims without any real proof or credible source to back up their claim. Constantly spewing hatred or attacking members personally is not considered 'Freedom of speech', it called Ignorance.


Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Maybe because we are fighting a war with them?


What kind of war? War on terror? Did the Iraqi people want this war? Did Lebanese people want this war? Who decides which side is right or wrong and how can killing be justified with killing?


Originally posted by XphilesPhan
BTW, there is little difference between mainstream islam and militant islam. Many apologists dont seem to understand this.


And thank you for proving my point. You just made a very general claim on Islam without any proof to show. Very typical behaviour of the kinbd of people I am tlaking about. Make absurd generalizations rather than addressing the real problem.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by spacedoubt
Believe it or not..A lot of people have a problem with religious extremism..of all types...which ones are we allowed to talk about?


Its ok to talk about them and analyze the problems. But its not ok to make absurd generalizations and claims which hold no true meaning and only serve the purpose of a heated debate or provocation. Saying that such and such terrorist group is a problem and these could be the ways to deal with it, is ok. But saying that such and such group commited this act in the name of religion and therefore we are at war with that religion and all the people following it. That is not OK.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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Some Members

I just wanted to mention that even in Rant, we need to avoid personal attacks on other members.

However, rants about certain kinds of behavior are fair game.

I think this is an excellent topic, and ask that members try to address the underlying issue instead of being sidetracked by personal commentary.

Remember: we can't be sure of who other members are, just what they post.

Comments and opinions on that are always welcome.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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Just subscribing this thread to my Favorites. Interesting topic. Very apt imo.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 08:18 PM
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Thank you MODS. I am glad to see that there is awareness of this problem here on ATS, where the members often tend to resort to personal attacks rather than discussing the topics at hand.

Althought the personal attacks are very well handled by our Mods, some people sidetrack by extending the attacks and negative stereotyping to race, religion, etc. thereby claiming that they did not make any personal attacks and instead are voicing their opinion. This kind of behaviour does not contribute anything to a discussion and instead leads to a total sidetrack verbal brawl which often ends in people getting warnings or the thread being closed down. This also leads to some of the constructive members to lose their cool at times and resort to the same level as the person they are arguing with.

I urge people to please do not stereotype which can be very offensive to some members. We all come from different cultures and backgrounds and last thing we need is the cultural differences to distract us from the actual discussion at hand. Also, making general claims about a race or religion is unacceptable unless there is proof to show the credibility of that claim.
Ongoing war on terror and the rise in 'muslim' terrorism is not an excuse to bash muslims or Islam and generalizations about them.

Also it is pointless to put multiples points in one thread which are not directly related. If there is a discussion on 'Jihad' in a thread then people should not be posting comments on the 'Burkha/Viel/Hijab' unless it is directly related to the topic and actually helps in propogating the understanding of that topic. Often people start posting news articles (from uncredible sources), quran quotes or random info in a thread about muslims just because it helps them use that as leverage to make their point without actually making the point.

I gave examples about the muslim bashing because it is most prevalent here on ATS, but these guidelines should apply to every race, religion, topic, etc.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Maybe because we are fighting a war with them?

"Them"?

We are fighting a war with Islam.

Please explain when this started?



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 10:18 PM
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This is a very difficult issue... one that I've been increasingly concerned about.

Someone reminded me, recently, of appropriate quote from someone who had an exceptional way with an economy of words... the quote is, "History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes." (I think I got it right)

Not that long ago, a populace was convinced that an ethnic/religious group was to be feared. Not that long ago, knee-jerk reactions to this group resulted horrific decisions. Not that long ago, those in power fabricated a vast mountain of lies and deception to fuel the furnace of fear. Not that long ago, countries were invaded under pretexts related to the fears and deception.

It certainly rhymes.

How easily, today, we slip into the trap of fearing an entire group of people we don't understand.

Certainly, I'll be called an "apologist" for daring to think that the years of bungled global strategies of the west are part of the reasons we see intense hate in growing factions of these people we don't understand.

We had a game here on ATS not long ago... some effort went into trying to give it some meaning... to make it more than a game. I think the message given at the end is an appropriate one:
Listen to each other.
Understand each other.
Know the desires, hopes, needs, wants, and fears of each other.
Listen.

A nice response from a member here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

We have a method here (ATS) where we can listen to each other, especially to those we don't understand, and learn.

It's easy to and reassuring to shout out the misconceptions we're being fed. The group-think of fearing "them" can be intoxicating.

It's hard and risky to take the time to listen. The risk is, you may change your mind.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 10:40 PM
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Well, let me just start off by stating that Muslims do not get criticised anymore, and really not as much here, as Christians do.

With that being said, there are some things to realize when considering why there is such animosity towards Christianity and Islam both, and why it will only get worse.

Firstly, there is the perspective of history. Check these links for an understanding about Christian and Muslim sponsored atrocities.

Crusades

Islamic Atrocities

Then there is the present perspective. Now, whether anyone wants to admit it, this whole "war on terrorism" is really nothing more or less than a religious war.

Now from the perspective of the secularist, where a lot of this hate is boiled from, both religions should be done away with. As the years go by, there will be a greater cry from the secularists for Islam and Christianity to conform to secularist notions and for everyone to play nice. This is something that neither Islam nor christianity will be willing to do. Hence, this hate that you speak of will only grow in the secularist's world.



[edit on 21-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 21-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, let me just start off by stating that Muslims do not get criticised anymore, and really not as much here, as Christians do.


You must be joking. I can safely say that you are wrong on this one and I am sure lot of people would agree with me on this. Muslims do not get criticized? I dont know which world you live in to be able to make that statement but I am sure we are not on the same dimension here.

That being said. I was pointing out the hate thrown around ATS which has increased considerably. People think it is ok to generalize and stereotype people and pass biased judgements on groups of people as long as they are not attacking any members personally. That is a wrong conception. If someone is coming out to make a bold statement then it is required to post some credible sources to back up that claim. Example: Posting a link about some beheading in some country and then making a statement like: Muslims are backward people who live in the 7th century and they should all be bombed. That is just absurd. But its surprising how many members actually resort to such tactics in an outward or sometimes subtle manner. This way the actual discussion of the topic is sidetracked to a verbal war about the comment made by the troll.

Religious differences have existed throughout time and will continue to exist. That is not an excuse to bring those differences here and post unnecessary comments or claims which contribute nothing to the forum other than a heated debate which gets ugly in the end. We are here to discuss problems and events and try to gain a better understanding. Bombing an entire population is not a solution but a idiots way of solving issues.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 11:43 PM
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It's not all bashing, what kind of "war" are the Islamic radicals fighting. Do the Iraqis want to be murdered by them? Do the Lebanese want war? I think not. Every single day the Islamic radicals commit the most unbelievable, horrible, outrageous, acts of murder that they can think of.
All done to shock the world into submission. Their stated plan is world domination, total destruction of all who oppose them. All left are to be in total obedience. All done in the name of Allah. Where is the outrage to this?
If I was muslim,and these sob were using my religion in this way,...well I would certainly be more than a little upset. All that is seen is screaming mobs,yelling,death to America,death to Israel, and such. Where are the mobs yelling, this is not Islam, Islam has been stolen. Why is that not seen?

Bashing award: George Bush. Hands down.

[edit on 21-12-2006 by rdang]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by silencer

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, let me just start off by stating that Muslims do not get criticised anymore, and really not as much here, as Christians do.


You must be joking. I can safely say that you are wrong on this one and I am sure lot of people would agree with me on this. Muslims do not get criticized? I dont know which world you live in to be able to make that statement but I am sure we are not on the same dimension here.



Hey, read what I said and please do not put words in my mouth.
Thank ya. I said that they don't get criticized ANYMORE THAN the Christians do... I'd be much obliged if you would read and understand my post before you comment on it from here on out. Thank ya,Thank ya

[edit on 22-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Hey, read what I said and please do not put words in my mouth.
Thank ya. I said that they don't get criticized ANYMORE THAN the Christians do... I'd be much obliged if you would read and understand my post before you comment on it from here on out. Thank ya,Thank ya


I read what you read. Maybe you should read it again see that you wrote "let me just start off by stating that Muslims do not get criticised anymore" then you put a comma. You made a grammatical mistake which changed ur sentence, that is not my fault.

Lets go back to what you were actually trying to say. You are saying that muslims do not get criticized more than christians. I will repeat again, you must be joking or living in an alternate reality to be able to make that statement. If you look closer and read my post, I am talking about the stereotyping and bashing of various races and religion, particularly muslims and Islam which is very predominant on ATS. If you believe that muslims do not get bashed more than any other on ATS then I am sorry to say that you are sadly mistaked. I can still bet that people can back me up on this one.

[edit on 12/22/2006 by silencer]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:48 AM
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rdang,

You just posted a bunch of genralizations and claim without any proof. On top of that, your discussion is off topic. Just because the OP talks about muslims does not mean you can start bashing muslims and claim that you are on topic. Read the OP and realize that this thread is talking about exactly the kind of behaviour which you just exhibited.

Let me sum up the mistakes for u.
1. Going off topic.
2. OP mentions muslims, so posting comments and absurd generalizations about muslims.
3. Not posting any credible sources to back up your words.
4. Not contributing to the discussion by posting something totally irrelevant.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 04:22 AM
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Interesting topic:up

Imo, there is almost as much Christian bashing as there is Muslim bashing on ATS. Neither is cool, one does not make the other acceptable to do.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 06:47 AM
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Its suprising how many people like to refer to Muslims as "them", like they are all the same. Its like saying that all Catholics support the IRA, all Chinese are Communists and all Germans are Nazi's. Stigmatizing a whole group is uneducated and unintelligent, something you expect from right wing politics not a member of a conspiracy board.

I mean, its hypocritical of linking Islam to terrorism because Christianity and Judaism have their history of religious terrorism too. One cannot forget the Zionist terrorist groups throughout Europe and the Middle East before the creation of Israel in the early 1900s. And the Christian militants in Lebanon who killed an entire camp of women and children during the 80s.

And the Christian miltants in America, that many Americans refuse to speak about. Who, if i am correct, have carried more terrorist attacks in the United States than any Muslim group.



BTW, there is little difference between mainstream islam and militant islam. Many apologists dont seem to understand this.


Thank you for proving my point about stigmatizing and uneducated statements


-------

To be fair, i would not be suprised if ATS removed religion all together from ATS and made this bored non secular.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by silencer
some members are almost always spewing hatred against muslims.

some members are almost always spewing hatred against America.


some of them post articles off the internet with no credibility watsoever


Like YOU do against America? Pointed out by Mirthful Me on this thread -
www.belowtopsecret.com...

Oh the hypocrisy. Glass houses, silencer. Glass houses. :shk: You might want to clean up your own act before you point fingers at others here. That's my - "rants about certain kinds of behavior are fair game" - to quote MAJIC. An Anti-hypocrisy statement.

FACT - RADICAL Islamic Terrorists DESERVE to be bashed. RADICAL FUNDAMENTALIST Islamics who call women 'uncovered meat and who deserve to be raped' DESERVE to be bashed.

Some folks lump all Muslims together but most make the distinction between average Muslims and radicals. But even if a few here don't, they have a right to their views even if it doesn't agree with yours.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by silencer
some members are almost always spewing hatred against muslims.

some members are almost always spewing hatred against America.


Which would be just lovely if it happened to be the topic., it's not. Where was America bashing brought in? Oh, oops, YOU DID. Was a nerve hit? This is a great tool of those that refuse to look at the issue of some ATS members just bashing Muslims.

You posted a link to another thread that this member had that YOU considered "anti-American". Hell, over half of your population thinks the same thing, so how is it "anti-American". Not the best debate tactics imo.

When you can't debate the topic, attack the author. That's getting old and does NOTHING for the site.

From the thread author:


This is a place for discussion of topics, including sensitive ones but these people have no regard or respect for anyone else's beliefs or opinions.


I'll wager that these words will become evident in the next few posts. :shk:

Edit: fixed BB code.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by intrepid]



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