'No doubt' global warming is real, page 1


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reply posted on 4-12-2003 @ 04:29 PM by postings
Why are environmentalists so sure that CFC's are the cause of this? Can someone show me conclusive evidence that CFC's are directly causing the global warming we are in? And saying that it is getting hotter doesn't correctly identify CFC's as the cause.

Suppose for a moment the sun is actually getting hotter, or giving off more radiation (which it has been from what I have read). Wouldn't that cause global warming? Check out this link:

www.sustdev.org...

Then this:

aol.skyarchive.org...

I am not saying that either of these explanations are right either, but I think that we are jumping to conclusions if we are saying for sure that CFC's are 100% the culprit of any warming going on.

Originally posted by earthtone
There is no doubt that we are screwing our world. The people who will tell us that global warming is in fact not happening are the

"scientists" who work for Exxon Mobil.

T
h
e
y published a survey claiming that over a thousand scientists had accepted global warming as not true. Characters from M*A*S*H were found in this list.. Don't let them fool you...We must do something otherwise future generations will be living in #ing waterworld!



reply posted on 4-12-2003 @ 11:56 PM by postings
So you are saying that since CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and it traps heat, and that we are making a lot of it.
But by saying this, aren't we just correlating a rise in one thing with a rise in something else? Has anyone proven with hard research that not only does this happen in a lab, but it happens the exact same way in nature? Can they conclusively point to CO2 as the ONLY cause of global warming? I won't go so far to say that there is no global warming, because history has shown in the past that it does happen. But that is the thing . . . If it happened hundreds of years BEFORE we were spewing smoke, doesn't that at least cast a shadow of a doubt? I am not saying I don't buy it, but I honestly want to see hard evidence that proves that CO2, or CFC's, or whatever, is DIRECTLY affecting our climate and nothing else could possibly influence. In other words, I will believe it when I see it, and I haven't yet.

Originally posted by JuanBond
let's talk CO2 for a moment...

carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, meaning it accelerates the natural warming process of the earth by trapping radiant heat from the sun...

carbon dioxide is a by-product of the burning of fossil fuels...

fossil fuels are used to produce electricity, and to power cars, airplanes, boats, anything with a internal combustion engine...

these are the two most used things by the greatest majority of the human race...

there are more people on the earth than ever before...

and its just that simple...

we ARE the problem.




reply posted on 6-12-2003 @ 12:22 PM by Seekerof
Here's a prime example of what I mentioned above:
"Solar activity reaches new high"
Link:
physicsweb.org...

Excerpt:
"2 December 2003

Geophysicists in Finland and Germany have calculated that the Sun is more magnetically active now than it has been for over a 1000 years. Ilya Usoskin and colleagues at the University of Oulu and the Max-Planck Institute for Aeronomy say that their technique - which relies on a radioactive dating technique - is the first direct quantitative reconstruction of solar activity based on physical, rather than statistical, models (I G Usoskin et al. 2003 Phys. Rev. Lett. 91 211101)

Sunspots are produced by magnetic activity inside the Sun. The more active the Sun is, the more spots are produced. Observations of sunspots began in 1610 - soon after the telescope was invented - and no other directly obtained data exists from before this time.

Now, Usoskin and co-workers have used the concentration of beryllium-10 in polar ice as a proxy for historic levels of solar activity. Beryllium-10 is produced when cosmic rays interact with particles in the Earth's atmosphere. The radioisotope then falls to the ground where it is stored in layers of ice. The Sun's magnetic field can deflect cosmic rays away from the Earth, so a stronger field should lead to less beryllium-10 being produced, and vice versa."



Found these articles in a cross-reference of the subject matter:
"A 1,000-Year History of Sunspot Numbers"
Link:
www.co2science.org...

Excerpt:
"Both the Medieval and Modern Maximums in sunspot number and solar variability parameters stand out head and shoulders above all other periods of the past thousand years, with the Modern Maximum slightly besting the Medieval Maximum. Due to the many empirical evidences for climate modulation by solar variability, therefore, it is only to be expected, on this basis, that current temperatures may well be higher than at any other time during the past millennium. Since other factors come into play too, however, and since the Medieval and Modern Maximums were not all that different, this conclusion may not be precisely correct. In any event, the observations of this study suggest no need whatsoever for invoking variations in the air's CO2 content as a cause of temperature variations during any period of the past thousand years."

And this: (provides links to this theory)
"Medieval Warm Period -- Solar Influence"
Link:
www.co2science.org...

And:
"Global Warming News"
Link:
www.opinionet.com...


Again, it has been mentioned here at ATS, that between the periods of the 11th century and the 14th, Greenland flourished with farms growing row crops and raising livestock, as did arctic Canada. WOuld this not lend to the argument that Global Warming has virtually nothing to do with human activities, per se'?



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 6-12-2003 by Seekerof]


reply posted on 6-12-2003 @ 12:53 PM by Seekerof
Here's anpther interesting article just published recently and I just found:
"Rapid Climate Change -- Summary"
Link:
www.co2science.org...

Excerpt"
"Climate alarmists such as O'Neill and Oppenheimer (2002) regularly invoke the mere possibility of an abrupt-and-rapid warming resulting from the ongoing rise in the air's CO2 concentration as sufficient reason to implement the Kyoto Protocol [see our Editorial of 10 July 2002]. Since almost anything is possible, however, it makes much more sense to consider an event's likelihood when trying to decide what to do about it. One good way of doing this within the context of potential global warming is to see how often rapid climatic changes have occurred in the past and under what circumstances they occurred, especially with respect to the air's CO2 content. Hence, we take this tack in the following paragraphs......"

And another:
"CO2-Temperature Correlations -- Summary"
Link:
www.co2science.org...

Excerpt:
"Over this extended period, the three most dramatic warming events experienced on earth were those associated with the terminations of the last three ice ages; and for each of these climatic transitions, earth's air temperature rose well in advance of any increase in atmospheric CO2. In fact, the air's CO2 content did not begin to rise until 400 to 1,000 years after the planet began to warm. Such findings have been corroborated by Mudelsee (2001), who examined the leads/lags of atmospheric CO2 concentration and air temperature over an even longer time period, finding that variations in atmospheric CO2 concentration lagged behind variations in air temperature by 1,300 to 5,000 years over the past 420,000 years. Other studies have also documented a fundamental violation of the cause-must-precede-effect principle in the climate alarmist hypothesis of CO2-induced global warming."


Seemingly, when the "Global Warming" agenda and industry fully explains how nearly all the data shows, both short and long term, that warming always precedes CO2 build up, then perhaps the merited attention will be given? *shrugs*


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 6-12-2003 by Seekerof]
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