Originally posted by Bangin
Old news is no longer relevent?

HowardRoark, there's more to this and somehow I feel as if you know about it.

Let me put it this way, I've run into this topic before.

If you really want to beleive in chemtrails, go to carnicom.com or Chemtrail Central. If you can deal with Yahoo groups, you can go over to "chemtrail Tracking USA." I am sure they will be happy to supply you with all of the info you need.

Be advised, that you are getting into this a little late. The peak for the belief in chemtrails has definitly passed.

HowardRoark,
Thanks for the sites, but I've already ran across them.

I've seen these trails before, but they've always been in very low numbers. I've never seen them litter the entire sky as they did on December 4th. Peak or no peak, it seems to be an ongoing problem. I'm not going to sweep this under the carpet just yet.

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
Tell me where you took the pictures, and I'll look at my sectional and tell you what airway you are directly under...

That would be the same area that I've lived for 14 years, central Texas. Never seen them during the previous years, so I don't understand why they're showing up now. Again, it is not a normal occurrence in this area.

"Central Texas" is a bit too vague. Give me a city.

Originally posted by THENEO
I get so bored at this site sometimes fighting with people that have an opinion on a subject but with absolutely no knowledge of what they talk about.

Thus: are you a disinfo spook?
are you just a kid pretending to be an adult?
are you just trying to get a rise out of somebody?
are you just plain defiant about everything you encounter?
what is your problem?

regarding this phenomena I have on numerous occasions seen the following:

A large jet aircraft, that is white with NO markings whatsoever do the following over at least a 4 year span over a large metropolitain area where I live:

enter our airspace at a great altitude,
fly across the city laying down a contrail,
shut off the spray while banking to turn,
turn on the spray while crossing over the city again,
then turn off the spray while banking again,
and repeat until spray is finished.

I have witnessed this done while the craft layed down a DEFINITE pattern of spraying and this often is coordinated by as many as 3 planes at once. Once the spraying is done, the planes shut off the contrails and begin flying south east to where the rumoured mothballed airstrips are in the US NorthEast which this operation comes out of.

All the time this happens, chartered airliners leave and enter Toronto International Airport (by far Canada's busiest airport), with minimal contrails.

Furthermore, planes flying a holding pattern looking for runway clearance coming in do two things: they fly much lower than the contrail planes and two they rarely produce contrails and even when they do they dissipate rapidly.

When jet aircraft fly over our airspace they often fly higher than the jets that spray and even at very high altitudes I can identify that they are in fact commerical carriers (with binoculars). In the case where contrails are formed by these planes (common due to high altitude), these contrails dissipate quickly.

Lastly, note with spraying planes, they emit a dirty and sometimes greyish blue smoke which I do not see from commercial jets. Also, it is not just a contrail being emmitted but from where, sprayers emit contrails from the back of the plane and there is often at least 3 plumes and as much as half a dozen. Few Commercial aircraft today have more than 4 turbines, and most newer jets have only two!

First of all, to whom are you speaking? those of us having a civilized conversation here would like to know, as it's good to know who you are beyotching at....


Secondly, if in fact you have seen such activity on a regular basis, why have you not photographed it, or better yet, video taped it? I've been flying for nearly 20 years, adn have never, ever, seen anything even remotly like what you describe. Some proof please, other than an angry, "you have to believe me because I say so" attitude???

Some of the pictures were taken in Pflugerville and the others in Austin.

Based on my observations, air traffic heads towards Bergstrom. The aircraft making these trails were primarily heading East to West > West to East. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Martinez
The aerodynamic contrail is produced by the momentary reduction of pressure resulting from the flow of air past an airfoil. Since it is of short duration, it is not considered an operational hazard.
The key word here is short lived! Usually the only time you see an aerodynamic contrail is in very high angles of attack(fighters and aerobatic planes), or in big planes when they are low and slow and in a transition phase of flight when the conditions are right. You will not get aerodynamic contrails when straight and level and at a constant speed during flight.

this is ABSOLUTLY untrue! At high altitudes and very cold temps, the formation of aerodynamic contrails is increased dramaticly, allowing even slow flying aircraft to create them. Again, they will last as long as the winds and other atmospheric conditions allow....

Originally posted by Bangin
Some of the pictures were taken in Pflugerville and the others in Austin.

Based on my observations, air traffic heads towards Bergstrom. The aircraft making these trails were primarily heading East to West > West to East. Hope this helps.

I'll try to look tomorrow and see what airways are around those areas...Austin is a major airway, with several VOR's and NDB's in the area....

Originally posted by THENEO
Oh goody! We have a disinfo spook here to shoot us all down!

Who do you work for?

Now on to the facts.

As who sees them? Facts are supported by evidence, of which you have given none. That makes your posts opinion. State them as such.

Originally posted by THENEOContrails dissipate faster no matter where they originate from nor the type of plane or the era they were photographed.

Where did THAT come from? Dissapate faster than what? As stated on the site I posted earlier, the speed at which contrails dissapate is an effect of the atmospheric conditions that exist at the time. Winds aloft, temprature, dew point, these all work in concert to effect contrails created by aircraft, as they do clouds.

Originally posted by THENEOTwo you did not produce any photos showing the mass sprayers that emit from the entire tail of a plane.

Perhaps that is because they do not exist, except for on crop dusters! You haven't shown ANY pictures, or proof of any kind. Why? You seem to have all the answers...where's the proof? Again, opinion, not fact...

Originally posted by THENEO
When you are not the best informed on a subject then you do not have the right to act like you are an expert.

It is called courtesy.

Frankly when you attack others and put them down based upon incomplete knowledge on a subject then you deserve a potshot IMHO.

The board exists for people to share and learn and there will always be opinions, true. But you have to have the ability to defend them too.

Also due to the nature of the general topic that this board covers being Conspiracy' one has to accept that proof is hard to come by and subject to scrutiny. This ain't the science channel. On the other hand the science channel ain't run by the people either...

I sometimes get annoyed when the mods here allow rookies and cranks to attack people that are trying to do the right thing and they paint both sides with the same brush. That is unfair and something that happens a lot here.

Anyways my struggle to improve ATS continues...

Now on to the topic at hand,

If you want to really know whether Chemtrails exist do some more homework and then we will discuss the finer' details of this subject which I am able to get down and dirty with anyone here. I used to post a chemtrail watch on the web 4 years ago on a regular basis when few people even knew what the heck they were.

I challenge you to prove that they are just smoke or condensation from planes with known commercial operations or routine military or spook activities.

An you ARE the expert on this subject????


HA!!!! I challenge you to prove ANYTHING you have posted!!!! You surely haven't done so yet. You have only proven that you attack someone who puts forth an argument, WITH proof, by the way, that differs from yours!

Originally posted by THENEO
When I ask questions I expect people to answer them.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

You know, I had to go to a funeral today, and was a bit in the dumps...this one statement from this one individual has made me laugh hysterically, and brightened up my day! Thank you, Neo...you don't give facts or proof, but you sure do give belly laughs!!!

Affirmative,

I will address your retorts in due time.

Regarding videotaping contrails/chemtrails there is lots of it around now. When I was following this stuff a few years back the only practical way to do it was via film a complex manner of recording the evidence. Still worth while mind you but not easy.

In terms of why not I guess I already answered the question mostly, but there is annother reason. In the beggining there was a few people into this and then everyone else. The fact was it was a small community of people that could see the truth and few others were interested. Much like a lot of conspiracy stuff.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by THENEO
When you are not the best informed on a subject then you do not have the right to act like you are an expert.

It is called courtesy.

Frankly when you attack others and put them down based upon incomplete knowledge on a subject then you deserve a potshot IMHO.

The board exists for people to share and learn and there will always be opinions, true. But you have to have the ability to defend them too.

Also due to the nature of the general topic that this board covers being Conspiracy' one has to accept that proof is hard to come by and subject to scrutiny. This ain't the science channel. On the other hand the science channel ain't run by the people either...

I sometimes get annoyed when the mods here allow rookies and cranks to attack people that are trying to do the right thing and they paint both sides with the same brush. That is unfair and something that happens a lot here.

Anyways my struggle to improve ATS continues...

Now on to the topic at hand,

If you want to really know whether Chemtrails exist do some more homework and then we will discuss the finer' details of this subject which I am able to get down and dirty with anyone here. I used to post a chemtrail watch on the web 4 years ago on a regular basis when few people even knew what the heck they were.

I challenge you to prove that they are just smoke or condensation from planes with known commercial operations or routine military or spook activities.

An you ARE the expert on this subject????


HA!!!! I challenge you to prove ANYTHING you have posted!!!! You surely haven't done so yet. You have only proven that you attack someone who puts forth an argument, WITH proof, by the way, that differs from yours!

I did not come here to convince anyone that any conspiracy in the world exists, did you? I came to this site to talk to people that already have awareness and wish to discuss the finer points, something you are not interested in obviously.

Regarding evidence, I don't have to provide it and frankly there is tons on the web now. Why don't you be a good scientist and do some more research yourself and provided you do not live in the stix somewhere, how about you watch some planes for awhile and report back to the rest of us. That is your assignment for this week.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by THENEO
I get so bored at this site sometimes fighting with people that have an opinion on a subject but with absolutely no knowledge of what they talk about.

Thus: are you a disinfo spook?
are you just a kid pretending to be an adult?
are you just trying to get a rise out of somebody?
are you just plain defiant about everything you encounter?
what is your problem?

regarding this phenomena I have on numerous occasions seen the following:

A large jet aircraft, that is white with NO markings whatsoever do the following over at least a 4 year span over a large metropolitain area where I live:

enter our airspace at a great altitude,
fly across the city laying down a contrail,
shut off the spray while banking to turn,
turn on the spray while crossing over the city again,
then turn off the spray while banking again,
and repeat until spray is finished.

I have witnessed this done while the craft layed down a DEFINITE pattern of spraying and this often is coordinated by as many as 3 planes at once. Once the spraying is done, the planes shut off the contrails and begin flying south east to where the rumoured mothballed airstrips are in the US NorthEast which this operation comes out of.

All the time this happens, chartered airliners leave and enter Toronto International Airport (by far Canada's busiest airport), with minimal contrails.

Furthermore, planes flying a holding pattern looking for runway clearance coming in do two things: they fly much lower than the contrail planes and two they rarely produce contrails and even when they do they dissipate rapidly.

When jet aircraft fly over our airspace they often fly higher than the jets that spray and even at very high altitudes I can identify that they are in fact commerical carriers (with binoculars). In the case where contrails are formed by these planes (common due to high altitude), these contrails dissipate quickly.

Lastly, note with spraying planes, they emit a dirty and sometimes greyish blue smoke which I do not see from commercial jets. Also, it is not just a contrail being emmitted but from where, sprayers emit contrails from the back of the plane and there is often at least 3 plumes and as much as half a dozen. Few Commercial aircraft today have more than 4 turbines, and most newer jets have only two!

First of all, to whom are you speaking? those of us having a civilized conversation here would like to know, as it's good to know who you are beyotching at....


Secondly, if in fact you have seen such activity on a regular basis, why have you not photographed it, or better yet, video taped it? I've been flying for nearly 20 years, adn have never, ever, seen anything even remotly like what you describe. Some proof please, other than an angry, "you have to believe me because I say so" attitude???

Flying what ultralights?

What am I supposed to be impressed by that statement?

I guess in the bondocks there is no need to spray on people.

I still think you are a spook.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by THENEO
Oh goody! We have a disinfo spook here to shoot us all down!

Who do you work for?

Now on to the facts.

As who sees them? Facts are supported by evidence, of which you have given none. That makes your posts opinion. State them as such.

Originally posted by THENEOContrails dissipate faster no matter where they originate from nor the type of plane or the era they were photographed.

Where did THAT come from? Dissapate faster than what? As stated on the site I posted earlier, the speed at which contrails dissapate is an effect of the atmospheric conditions that exist at the time. Winds aloft, temprature, dew point, these all work in concert to effect contrails created by aircraft, as they do clouds.

Originally posted by THENEOTwo you did not produce any photos showing the mass sprayers that emit from the entire tail of a plane.

Perhaps that is because they do not exist, except for on crop dusters! You haven't shown ANY pictures, or proof of any kind. Why? You seem to have all the answers...where's the proof? Again, opinion, not fact...

Learn to read english dude. Contrails dissipate faster than chemtrails PERIOD!

Again, do some research and then come back to me. I have done it, been there and back. You have not yet you defiantly tell me that they do not exist.

Such is the state of ATS these days.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by THENEO
When you are not the best informed on a subject then you do not have the right to act like you are an expert.

It is called courtesy.

Frankly when you attack others and put them down based upon incomplete knowledge on a subject then you deserve a potshot IMHO.

The board exists for people to share and learn and there will always be opinions, true. But you have to have the ability to defend them too.

Also due to the nature of the general topic that this board covers being Conspiracy' one has to accept that proof is hard to come by and subject to scrutiny. This ain't the science channel. On the other hand the science channel ain't run by the people either...

I sometimes get annoyed when the mods here allow rookies and cranks to attack people that are trying to do the right thing and they paint both sides with the same brush. That is unfair and something that happens a lot here.

Anyways my struggle to improve ATS continues...

Now on to the topic at hand,

If you want to really know whether Chemtrails exist do some more homework and then we will discuss the finer' details of this subject which I am able to get down and dirty with anyone here. I used to post a chemtrail watch on the web 4 years ago on a regular basis when few people even knew what the heck they were.

I challenge you to prove that they are just smoke or condensation from planes with known commercial operations or routine military or spook activities.

An you ARE the expert on this subject????


HA!!!! I challenge you to prove ANYTHING you have posted!!!! You surely haven't done so yet. You have only proven that you attack someone who puts forth an argument, WITH proof, by the way, that differs from yours!

I want to know why you are all over this thread trying to hack down everything posted here? Any ideas Mods?

You need to do your homework like a good boy then come back and ask some questions. I am not going to teach you about chemtrails and biologicals with metallic salts, plasma and aluminum streamers that have been found in numerous sprays all over the US, Canada and Europe.

Again I ask are you a SPOOK!

Hey neo, don't forget about my questions

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Back to the subject at hand. Neo, since you have been studying “chemtrails” for these fast few years, maybe you can enlighten us on a few basic concepts

1. Cirrus clouds generally form at high altitudes and consist of small ice crystals. Why is it that cirrus clouds can form and persist, yet it is a given tenet of the chemtrail theory that contrails must always dissipate rapidly after forming? Please explain how it is that the atmospheric conditions that allow a cirrus cloud to form don’t apply to a contrail?
   
   
2. Can you define the term relative humidity?
   
   
3. How is the relative humidity with respect to water different from the relative humidity with respect to ice?
   
   
4. How does the relative humidity change for a given air mass if the temperature of that air mass is lowered?
   
   
5. How about if you lower the atmospheric pressure?
   
   
6. Can the relative humidity ever exceed 100%?
   
   
7. What is the “dry bias?”
   
   
8. If a jet airplane consumes 500 lbs of fuel (assume that the fuel is pure toluene) per hour (assume 90% combustion efficiency), and the plane is traveling at 400 miles per hour at 40,000 feet, how much water is being released per foot?
   
   
9. Assume that the ambient temperature is -45 degrees F, that the exhaust rapidly cools down to the ambient temperature. If the ambient relative humidity with respect to ice is 98%, (outside the exhaust plume) is the relative humidity inside the exhaust plume likely to exceed 100%?
   
   
   
   Certainly these questions should be easy for someone who is an “expert” like yourself to answer.
   
   What do you say, folks, will Neo:
   
   
   
   
   1. Answer the questions (or at least try to);
      
      
   2. Attack HowardRoark for being a “paid disinfo agent” (and ignore the questions);
      
      
   3. Try to get HowardRoark banned from the board, (and ignore the questions) or;
      
      
   4. Change the subject (and ignore the questions)?
      
      
      
      

First of all answer my question man, are you a spook!

No, Like I said before, just someone who hates willfull ignorance.

I find it interesting that you don't post anywhere else then you come here to attack me?

Plus now you are being personal and mouthy?

Who are you and why are you so hard on this topic?

You answer me first.

Where did the spook go?

Did the spookbusters scare him?