My homeschooled daughter lacks socialization...or so they rant...

I guess as far as home schooling goes the results depend greatly on the quality of the parents doing the home schooling. Perhaps their should be some type academic testing and physiological testing of parents, wishing to home school, so at least we can be sure that the children are going to receive a proper quality education. More wealthy people will likely have better results as well because they can afford to get their kids out into the world and see more things. Also the wealthy are likely to have larger, or at least better role model associates and friends for the children to interact with. I guess as long home schooled children can keep the silver spoon into adult hood, and never be jobless and cashless, then they may not need the same type social skills that one might receive from public schools.

I've just had bad experiences with home schooled families, and children, but to my recolection they all involved heavy religion as well.

Kids learn at their own pace at home, have a lot more free time due to the faster learning without 30 other kids in the classroom, and can use friends in the neighborhood, sports, Scouts, and clubs for socialization. Home schooling is great with good teachers and tutors.

Socialization?!?! Read PROGRAMMING and INDOCTRINATION!

Originally posted by Corinthas
Socialization?!?! Read PROGRAMMING and INDOCTRINATION!

As so well explained in a tidbit I found today,
POISON DROPS IN THE FEDERAL SENATE, The School Question
� which eloquently compares, in hard statistics,
� the evolution of difference between
� states which required public education
� and states which did not require public education.

In their desperate efforts to find some plausible explanation for the astounding growth of crime in the public-school States, in excess of that found in the parental-school districts, which will vindicate their idolized "system," the advocates of State governed schools have sometimes claimed that the difference between the number of convictions for crime in the public-school States and the number found in the parental-school States is owing to a variety of local causes, entirely unconnected with and independent of the difference in educational systems. But a complete refutation of this assumption is found in the following statistics of public-school education and crime, demonstrating that in the very same localities every material increase of expenditures for public-school purposes has, without a single exception, been followed by a corresponding increase of crime. For example:

The author (this is from 1886, folks) complains about an incarceration rate approaching 0.2%
By comparison, the current figure for incarceration for the United States is 0.7%,
which does not include the number on probation or parole.

Acording to the U.S. government, almost 3% of all Americans are under correctional supervision.
From 1 Out Of 32 Americans Under Correctional Supervision :

While 1 out of every 142 Americans is now actually in prison, 1 out of every 32 of us is either in prison or on parole from prison, according to yet another report on Americans behaving badly from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
This means that 6.7 million adult men and women -- about 3.1 percent of the total U.S. adult population -- are now very non-voluntary members of America's "correctional community."

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics' report Probation and Parole in the United States, 2002,...

These are primarily adults and, to some extent juveniles.

When you consider that they, additionally, already have the
� child population safely locked away in classrooms...

But then again, how can they keep prisons in business
� if they fail to make that initial investment: Public Education

>...X...

I am a full grown adult (30's) and a product of the public school system, and I LACK SOCIALIZATION SKILLS!

The argument really doesn't hold water for me.

Alot of people have used the "socialization" argument. Lets clear this up. What exact social traits are you afraid the children will loose?

Here, I will start my own list of lost social values:
1. Dishonest behavior to fit in with "the pack."
2. Sexual values passed on from friends.
3. Drug values passed on from friends.
4. Violence
5. State-sponcered religion of enviornmentalism
6. Non-objective nation worship

And I do not advocate "sheltering your children from the outside world."
One does not have to participate in a given activity to understand it. In fact, a better understanding of a given social behavior will be gained from an outside veiw.

Greetings,

The silly season is upon us all, a time for joy, giving and love. A time to be shared with family and friends. For me however, it�s a time for combat of the interpersonal nature. My wife�s family just loves our public school system here in America and cannot understand why I chose to home school my daughter. Their favorite collective argument can be summed up in one sentence, �she will not be properly socialized at home, she needs to be in a public school.�

Drugs, sexual promiscuity, foul language, vile rap and rock music, undisciplined children, impotent teachers, chaotic learning environments, bullies, God free zones, and extreme violence.

You know, come to think of it, they are right, my daughter does indeed lack all of these social influences. I�ll go enroll her today!


Machine

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Machine]

A late, late, late reply....
First, I have noticed that there are many interesting discussions
on this site that seem to die on the vine...too bad. I guess
I'll post anyway...



The flaw with your method is just that, you're sheltering your daughter.

I don't think it's sheltering. I think it's called proper parenting as opposed to
indoctrination into our ever-declining civilization.

Let me ask you this: What do you expect from your daughter? I know you expect her to be a good, smart, wise person with something positive to give.

Reality check: She will have a very difficult time becomnig any of the above if you shelter her. For one thing, a lot of the negatives you mentioned are things that require experience to be successfully countered. Bullies, for example. There will always be bullies. If you aren't careful, you as a parent will be a bully. If you don't experience firsthand a bully, how will you learn how to fight? You can always tell her the whole "Ignore them tell the teacher" crap, but it's never that simple. Your daughter needs to learn how to stare them straight in the eye and either laugh at everything they say or give them the finger, instead of running away. Running away solves nothing.

It's really interesting. If everyone were to take FULL responsibility for raising their
children rather than leaving it to the media and the state, we would again have
a more across- the- board civilized society rather than isolated islands within
an ocean of barbarism.

Vile rap and rock music? How much more uptight can you get? How is rap and rock "bad?" And what makes you think you can control what their preference for entertainment and art is?

Many white urban public school students that I have encountered in the past fifteen years or so seem to be pretty thoroughly africanized. They can't seem to speak a sentence of coherent English, but instead have adopted jive as their language. I believe that it is a direct result of integration and media influence. Blacks bring their culture into public schools and thus help to create for it a white market, which then brings it all to television and radio, thus creating a cycle in which white boys who might otherwise be learning their own cultural history are to be found instead going about jabbering muf*cka this and muf*cka that and never really finding out who or what they really are. (If I had chlidren, I would certainly have to be "uptight" and not allow such vocabulary) I think that "vile rap" has certainly played no small part in this phenomenon. (Please feel free to inform me of the positve influence that hip-hop culture has had on our public schools,
as I remain ignorant...)

As for rock, most of it that is targeted at the youngsters today seems pretty lame, castrated,and "lite", so it's no big threat. Rap seems to rule the bulk of the youth
in my city.

Taste cannot be controlled. However, if children are brought up in a truly inspiring
environment, they will be much less likely to always seek the lowest common denominator.

God-free zones? Are you telling me you're forcing your daughter to believe in God? I'm not even going to respond to this, because the injustice involved is absolutely horrifying.

While I'm not a believer, I think that a parent has the right to help shape the beliefs
of a child. In case you didn't know, culture was once transmitted through generations
from parent to child, rather than from media mogul or state to child. If the child is also
taught to read, write, and reason, there will come a time when they will figure out for themselves whether or not there is a God. I think it is far more of an injustice to put
a child through an institution that will only debase her. Does it not seem an injustice to you what a child can be force-fed in public schools?


I am not saying home influences aren't necessary. In fact, to handle these situations, you have to prepare at home. But you can never prevent a person from the experience. It's like a tiger. If you raise it in your own home and release it to the wild two years later, it'll never survive. Again, I am not saying your daughter needs to get beaten up by a bully. Preparedness at home is what'll get you through it. But you can't learn anything without going through it the hard way. You'll never know how hot the fire really is until you burn yourself.

You can, however, guide a child into experiences that will actually enrich their lives, rather than allow them free reign that will likely prepare them only to become part of the herd. Then, when they are adults, they can do as they please as intelligent, reasonable,
articulate, civilized citizens rather than as subliterate, immature, foul-mouthed prisoners
who will be forced to have decisions made for them rather than being able to function
as high-quality persons.




[edit on 8/1/2004 by jdster]

As a student that has been through homeschool, a year of private school, and is currently in his third year of public school I feel that I am qualified to comment. First let me say that while I believe that you do have the best intentions for your daughter I must say that I feel that once she becomes able to think for herself she will end up resenting you quite strongly. The parents who try to shelter their children WAY too much are the ones creating the screwed up serial killers. A word of advice: don't force your religion on your daughter too strongly-it'll only make her hate it more. Now on to my opinions about schools.

First of all homeschool. I was homeschooled all the way through 7th grade and I must say that I absolutely HATED it. Kids need to be immersed in others their own age every day- it teaches them how to deal with their own generation in a natural way. As I have very strong feelings about homeschool I am going to end my statement there before I ramble on too long.

Private school: In 8th grade I went to a smalle Christian private school. Let me say that this place was horrible. If you think that public schools are corrupt then this place is Hell. For example: one student was always getting into fights and even threatened to kill another student. But did he get expelled? No because his parents are practically paying for the new school building. Plus after I left I hear that just about everyone in the school is now a drug addict.

Public school: Once I moved into public school I loved it. I have so many more oppertunities here than in homeschooling and private school. All the problems that you have talked about have been blown way out of proportion. There are barely any fights at my school and the few that happen aren't really even fights. The drugs, sure there are the stoners in the school but I don't know anybody that deals or has connections to dealers so from what I have seen there isn't much distribution going on, and I typically hang out with the "stoner kids". There really isn't much bullying. And I could continue to go on but it is getting a little late and I am tired of typing.

Peace

I, for one, absolutely detested public schools and actually resent my parents for not homeschooling me. I was absolutely tortured in school because I was the only female around with acne. The only two friends I had were the schools other outcasts. The teasing and being picked on intensified and became physical around the 6th grade where I began to get my butt handed to me for reasons such as being ugly and being smart. People don't fight one on one anymore either, it's usually a gang-up. I learned that if I hit someone back, 4 more will jump in. When I hit 9th grade, I received a huge black eye from someone's elbow, busted lip from being throw forward into a handrail, my shirt ripped off in front of a huge crowd waiting to enter the building, and then had eggs thrown at my head around Halloween time.

And with that, I developed quite a case of social anxiety and quit "skrewl".

What I've learned about socialization in public school? I learned that I'm such an ugly human being that I don't deserve to live, intelligence means nothing to teenagers, and that I belong on the bottom rung of society.

So my parents allowed me to quit at 16 (because going to school was mentally and physically harmful) where I stayed at home, in my room till about 23 years old. At that point I recovered my self-esteem a bit, I got a job where 99% of my coworkers thought I was a joy and great asset. I also met my husband there. Point? Even after no socializing with peers in my room for 7 years, I went out in the adult world and...did what came natural. Socialized with grown, experienced adults. Which was a billion times easier and much more pleasant than my peers as a teenager.

I do not buy into all this "they'll not know how to cope with life if they're homeschooled" horsehockey. How in the world did people cope when there was no public school?? Is a homeschooler going to turn 18, show up for a job interview and suddenly be so scared (because he's obviously never interacted with another human being) the english language? "So why do you think you're qualified?" "Uuuh... Zeep zop nooblimumwaaa, I want my mommy!"

I don't get why everyone against homeschool spouts freedom but isn't the choice of homeschooling freedom in itself? I shouldn't make decisions for my kids? I carried them for nine months, birthed them, and spent thousands of dollars providing food and shelter and entertainment for them and I should'nt have a say what goes on? Children are not little adults. That's what the excitement of the big 18 is. If you don't like your parents ruling over you (homeschooling you) then you get a job and get the frig out. From there, the government proceeds to reign over you.

Just my personal experience and thoughts. Sorry to rant.

[edit on 3-10-2007 by Veilibi]

[edit on 3-10-2007 by Veilibi]

Originally posted by ihatethisplace
hmmmm... well that's interesting. so basically your saying that your daughter should be sheltered? i mean my mother didnt want me to go to public school, and i did and i was fine. shes going to find the horrible truth about hummanity whether you like it or not. its kinda like just because you wash your hands dosent mean youve gotten rid of all the germs. if anything what dosent kill you makes you stronger (hehe i hate corny sayings one of those pet peeves). eh its your daughter and im notarguing just trying to understand.
oh and by the way impotent teachers? i dont know if i would wana see my teachers when they werent impotent walking around my daughter.

And your obvious grasp of spelling, punctuation, paragraph and sentence construction, as well as general rules of grammer, show you to be a shining example of public school education.



I'm sorry... I didn't mean to be insulting, but you did, kind of, set yourself up for it. I just let my weaker side get hold and allow me to put it out there.

Seriously, I do kind of side with you. One side of my wife's family does the home schooling gig. The children are smarter than the average bear, but the do, often lack a bit on social skills. I think it takes a really balanced person to do home schooling. I know, that while I admire the folks who do it, I wouldn't have the patience, skill, or temerity to undertake it.

My hats off to the home schoolers.

My three nephews are home schooled. They are very bright kids. But they are wholly uneducated. My sister is not too bright, so their education reflects the skill of their teacher.

The 11 year old, when asked by his doctor "What is 1 think you want to change about yourself?", answered with "I want to be able to move between dimensions." All of them think deeply.

They are completely unable to interact in a complex social setting. A normal high school type setting intimidates all three of them, and they fail to form any type of meaningful string of interaction due to their "oddness".

They will make great researchers or something, but i would not look for them to end up in sales. We just have to get the basics of their education caught up...if only my sister were a better teacher, or was bright enough to at least put them back into public education.

Originally posted by Machine
I experienced it first hand as both a public school student and a law enforcement officer who spent time working as an in school officer for the city of La Quinta... I�ve taken reports for everything from fighting to rape and I�m an authority on the matter of public school security.

Well now, there's your problem. Bigger cities and bigger schools have bigger problems. I live in a small town, and the school system here is no where near as bad as the school system you worked in apparently. I would agree you are an authority on the matter of public school security at the school you worked at, but not public school security in general. In all the years I was in school, I remember police showing up twice. Once due to a crazy who ran across school property with a gun before barricading himself inside a liquor store. And once due to someone's car window being smashed during a basketball game. Maybe one fight a year out of all the entire district, and most certainly no reports of rape. Perhaps moving to a smaller town would help your dim view of public schools.

In the end there is only one thing that matters to me above all others and that is this; where will my daughter spend her eternity? As her parent I can fail to do many things for her but failure to bring her up in a loving Christian two parent home is not an option.

In the end, the one thing that should matter to you above all others is your child's happiness and safety in this life. If your child is miserable in this life, do you really think she will be thinking "It's ok that I'm absolutely miserable now, I'll be happy after I die." I'm not saying you will make her miserable by home-schooling, merely trying to prove my point. Teach her about your religion and God, by all means, but don't sacrifice her happiness in this life or see it as less important.

I�ll keep her in home schooling until she is 13-16 years of age then send her to college if she is ready.

You're kidding right? You are going to keep her away from drugs, sex, rap, and rock until she's 13-16 and then send her to college? You realize that the age you're going to send her off, if she's ready, is the right age for her to become extremely curious about those very things, right? I'm assuming that you didn't mean send her off to stay in a dorm on campus, but even just sending her off to attend classes for a few hours a day will give her an excellent opportunity to listen to that kind of music and explore whatever else she decides she's curious about. Unless of course you intend to sit through all of her classes with her and never actually be away from her while she's in college. In which case she probably won't want to go because she'll be embarrassed that you're going with her all the time.

As for my daughters ability to protect herself she has a father who will raise her to be a fine hand to hand fighter. My brother manages ultimate fighters and king of the cage fighters from his school in Pomona California. I also have several black belts and training in several different forms of combat.

Teaching her to physically defend herself is great, but words don't care how tough you are. Hand to hand combat is not the answer to everything, and really it isn't the answer to anything unless you're saving your own life or the life of someone else. But even then, most people who will attack you aren't going to do it without a weapon. A black belt won't help against a gun.

I'm curious as to how you are going to teach her to handle someone being mean to her over some aspect of her personality or physical appearance that she can't change. The only way to learn to deal with that is to experience it, so are you going to pick on her occasionally so she learns how to respond?

When I went to public school the concept of a high school having a child care facility for the students was almost unheard of. Now, they are in many high schools as well as junior high schools!

Perhaps in your area they are, but where I'm from you're lucky if you can even find a college that has day care. They can usually tell you where a close one is, which you could find out on your own with a phone book, but they don't have one on campus.

You have every right to raise your daughter as you see fit, and honestly I'm impressed if she's only two and can already read. I was reading when I was three, so if she's anything like me she'll love to read for the rest of her life. If you feel homeschooling is the best way to give your daughter an education, more power to you. I do believe that children need to socialize with other children in their age group though. I started taking my son to day care for that very reason. Children need to play and just be kids sometimes, not constantly be with their parents. Sending her off to play in team sports is great, but if the only interaction she has with other children is in a setting where there isn't much socializing, if any, then it kind of defeats the purpose. Kids aren't little adults, they need to just be kids sometimes.

I think you should also keep in mind that she isn't a little you, and being sheltered her entire childhood is not going to make her grow up any better off than someone who isn't sheltered. My mother was over-bearing and sheltered me way too much. As soon as I was old enough to drive I was sneaking off to places she didn't know I was going, merely to get away from her being over-protective. She tried to keep me away from friends that she didn't like, which only caused me to want to hang out with them more. She thought they'd try to pressure me to try drugs, but that wasn't the case. The friends I had who did do drugs never pushed me into it, and didn't even offer it until I asked about it. My point being, the harder you try to keep her from doing something the more she will become curious about it. The more you try to shelter her from something, the more she will seek it out just to see why you're so against it.

Good heavens this is much longer than I originally intended it to be.. I believe I'll stop rambling now and save some server space for someone else.

[edit on 6-10-2007 by Jenna]