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Probe Into Beating of Man by Cops Begins

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posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 04:20 PM
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The man was using his own hands as a lethal force. He grabbed a cop around the neck, can't you see that? He was going to snap that cops neck.




posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by JediMaster
The man was using his own hands as a lethal force. He grabbed a cop around the neck, can't you see that? He was going to snap that cops neck.


You get more ridiculous everytime you post. His hands were lethal force? Were they registered with the local police department? The cops had no business killing that guy.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel
Yeah, they were justified in killing him when the guy was just sleeping on the street and was being arrested for disorderly conduct for sleeping on the street while being black.

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Colonel]


play the race card. is that the only thing you know how to do?



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by Colonel
Yeah, they were justified in killing him when the guy was just sleeping on the street and was being arrested for disorderly conduct for sleeping on the street while being black.

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Colonel]


play the race card. is that the only thing you know how to do?


Oh, a black man is DEAD for sleeping on the street and all YOU can say is play the race card???



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 04:46 PM
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No...he's dead for assaulting cops...


I don't watch Cops.

I agree withthe above statement but a cop can't use deadly force when there is no deadly force being used against him. Now, was what the cops did use of deadly force?

Well, is the guy dead?


Well...they (COPS) show white trash pushers and pimps getting smacked by the police all the time, hehe....

I will agree that the cops may have used more force than necessary (would have to look at the details more)...but it wasn't because he was black...



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel

Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by Colonel
Yeah, they were justified in killing him when the guy was just sleeping on the street and was being arrested for disorderly conduct for sleeping on the street while being black.

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Colonel]


play the race card. is that the only thing you know how to do?


Oh, a black man is DEAD for sleeping on the street and all YOU can say is play the race card???




the beating didnt cause his death. cocain was found in his system and he hard an enlarged heart from heart disease. people like that die if they get excited.

Im white. does that make me a racist? If i ever become a cop and somebody comes at me with intent to hurt me i will #ing take him or her out. it wouldnt matter if he was black, white, yellow, green whatever. if they come at me ill #in drop em.

its people like you that label white people who kill black people in SELF DEFENCE racist. if i had a "gangsta" terrorizing me and my family, and i killed him, would that make me a racist? and if it does how so?


What are white people supposed to do? just sit around and take it? we obviously cant defend ouselfs cause we would be labled a racist. sure a minority can defend him or her self but not white people.


i expect answers to all these questions



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 05:01 PM
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LMAO!!!! I'll answer you in a sec. I just know that you don't need to be a police officer.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan

1) Im white. does that make me a racist?

No.

2) If i ever become a cop and somebody comes at me with intent to hurt me i will #ing take him or her out. it wouldnt matter if he was black, white, yellow, green whatever. if they come at me ill #in drop em.

You don't need to be a cop.

3) if i had a "gangsta" terrorizing me and my family, and i killed him, would that make me a racist? and if it does how so?

Has a "gangsta"ever come into your home? I would suspect that thsi "gangsta" would be too busy "slingin' cane" to come over to your place---unless you had business to discuss.


4) What are white people supposed to do? just sit around and take it?

Take what?


You have issues.

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Colonel]



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 05:20 PM
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you didnt answer number 3


it was hypothetical



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 06:13 PM
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Your in legal business Colonel, you should know that using your own body force can be considerd a lethal weapon. So according to you the cop should've let the black man kill him. Your only defending this thug because he was black.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 07:08 PM
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Let's see here.

1. This man was tresspassing on private property. This is a felony in Cincinnati.
2. While being told to "stay back" when police arrived on the scene of the felony, he rushed an officer (who did not have a gun or baton drawn at the time), hitting him and grabbing him around the neck. This act is more commonly known as Assault on a Police Officer in the law books, and it is also a felony in Cincinnati.
2a. When faced with the circumstances outlined in point 2, police officers have a "one step up" guideline to follow. If an individual uses their body to assault an officer (i.e. hands, feet, etc), the police may use their baton or pepper spray in defense. Had he come at the officers with a knife/stick/broken bottle/etc, the officers would be justifed in using their service gun in defense. That isn't a "rule," it's a law defining the actions of a police officer.
3. When ordered to get on the ground and put his hands behind his back, this man continued to struggle. This is resisting arrest, a class 2 misdemeanor in Cincinnati.
4. The tactic utilized by the police officers, whereupon they "jabbed" at the man with their ASP batons, is a maneuver used on a person's joints to encourage one's arms & legs to relax enough to apply handcuffs or leg restraints.
5. Aside from being 350lbs, this man was "dusted," or high on PCP. PCP was developed as an anesthetic. People on PCP become numb to pain and violent (it also increases the body temperature, which is why so many people on PCP get naked.) The thing is, PCP is also infamous for causing stroke, lung & heart failure. Heart failure. PCP on top of an already diseased heart? You do the math. Anyone who says they'd be willing to face a dusted-out 350lb man is a liar.

It doesn't take a lawyer to figure out that the cops did exactly what they should've done.
Before people start screaming brutality or racism, y'all need to walk in the shoes of a police officer. Better yet, contact your local police department and arrange for a ride-along. Nearly every department offers citizens the right to sit in the passenger seat of a cruiser for that 12-hour shift and see first-hand what it means to be a cop.

Colonel, if you're interested, my ex hubby (and still my best friend) is an MPDC officer over in 5-D. I'd be glad to set you up on a ride-along with him so you can get an inkling in matters like this.
It's real obvious you've got no clue.

-B.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 07:19 PM
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Let's address these "points"


1. This man was tresspassing on private property. This is a felony in Cincinnati.

When is TRESPASS a felony? That's new to me.

2. While being told to "stay back" when police arrived on the scene of the felony, he rushed an officer (who did not have a gun or baton drawn at the time), hitting him and grabbing him around the neck. This act is more commonly known as Assault on a Police Officer in the law books, and it is also a felony in Cincinnati.

Ok, I can buy this.
2a. When faced with the circumstances outlined in point 2, police officers have a "one step up" guideline to follow. If an individual uses their body to assault an officer (i.e. hands, feet, etc), the police may use their baton or pepper spray in defense. Had he come at the officers with a knife/stick/broken bottle/etc, the officers would be justifed in using their service gun in defense. That isn't a "rule," it's a law defining the actions of a police officer.

Ok.

3. When ordered to get on the ground and put his hands behind his back, this man continued to struggle. This is resisting arrest, a class 2 misdemeanor in
Cincinnati.

I'm not gonna argue this one.

4. The tactic utilized by the police officers, whereupon they "jabbed" at the man with their ASP batons, is a maneuver used on a person's joints to encourage one's arms & legs to relax enough to apply handcuffs or leg restraints.

THIS I WILL ARGUE. In the video, the jabs were in the RIBS and stomach when the guy was down. I saw that and so did you which could have immediately brought on point 5 which was "causing stroke, lung & heart failure. Heart failure" since the guy was on PCP.

And Banshee, if I wanted to be a cop, I would've been one a LONG time ago. Thanks but no thanks.





posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel
Let's address these "points"

When is TRESPASS a felony? That's new to me.

Felony trespass. Look it up in the Cincy code. I double-checked before I made the post.


Originally posted by Colonel
"4. The tactic utilized by the police officers, whereupon they "jabbed" at the man with their ASP batons, is a maneuver used on a person's joints to encourage one's arms & legs to relax enough to apply handcuffs or leg restraints."

THIS I WILL ARGUE. In the video, the jabs were in the RIBS and stomach when the guy was down. I saw that and so did you which could have immediately brought on point 5 which was "causing stroke, lung & heart failure. Heart failure" since the guy was on PCP.

Actually, the video does not show where the man was struck. I just watched it again for the third time, and the only thing you can definitively tell is that the man was wrestled to his hands and knees. The stomach is not a viable target in that position, nor are the ribs anywhere near his heart.
However.
The coroner didn't find any bruising on the man's stomach, or any any areas that would have caused damage to internal organs. The bruises were consistent with strikes to the hip/knee areas on his right side. There was no injury to the stomach or ribs.
They were joint strikes intended to subdue the subject, as I said before. I recognize the tactic, having been taught it myself.


Originally posted by Colonel
And Banshee, if I wanted to be a cop, I would've been one a LONG time ago. Thanks but no thanks.


Ah, but I didn't suggest you *become* a cop.
I suggested you put yourself in a cop's shoes for a shift or two before you start bashing these guys.

But really, what would you have preferred happen here?
Yeah, freakin' brutal pigs...they should have let the PCP-enraged 400 lb man roam the neighborhoods until he calmed down.
There wouldn't be any outrage if the cops let him do that, and he tried to knock a bus off the interstate, or pull the demons out of some old woman's skull...

-B.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by Banshee
Ah, but I didn't suggest you *become* a cop.
I suggested you put yourself in a cop's shoes for a shift or two before you start bashing these guys.

But really, what would you have preferred happen here?
Yeah, freakin' brutal pigs...they should have let the PCP-enraged 400 lb man roam the neighborhoods until he calmed down.
There wouldn't be any outrage if the cops let him do that, and he tried to knock a bus off the interstate, or pull the demons out of some old woman's skull...

-B.


Waitaminit. I hear laywer bashing constantly yet I don't say come walk in my shoes for a day. I JUST DEAL. And as for the fat guy, they could've sat on him or something.

Or MAYBE, just MAYBE, police brutality needs to stop so when an incident like this occurs (where there is a chance that the officers are innocent) people won't automatically scream police brutality. Seems like some people have brought this on themselves.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 08:43 PM
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Banshee 2....
0....




posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Banshee 2....
0....



Ah, no.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 08:51 PM
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Hehe....sorry, just callin' it like I see it...

Feel free to agree to disagree... It's obvious Banshee researched this rather well, and unbiased to boot... Even you only disagreed with one point, which Banshee's call on, seems to have since been verified with official reports....



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel

Waitaminit. I hear laywer bashing constantly yet I don't say come walk in my shoes for a day. I JUST DEAL. And as for the fat guy, they could've sat on him or something.

Or MAYBE, just MAYBE, police brutality needs to stop so when an incident like this occurs (where there is a chance that the officers are innocent) people won't automatically scream police brutality. Seems like some people have brought this on themselves.


I didn't say a word about lawyers.

You accused the cops of being racist and of KILLING this man. It is very sad that the man died, but nobody killed him. He was not beaten to death. He was morbidly obese, had heart disease and was geeked up on dust & coke, and then started a fight. He had a heart attack, he didn't die of massive head trauma or something.
You're the one bashing here.
I'm just defending the people who protect us.
You're the one who seems to think they did something wrong. Doesn't it make sense to put yourself in their shoes?

Sit on a 350lb man on PCP?
SIT on him?
Did you watch the video, Colonel? Did you really watch it?
Six officers could not physically wrestle this man to the ground. He kept grabbing for their batons and even tried to get at one of the officers' throats AFTER they tried to take him to the ground.
That is what PCP does to a person.
Your suggestion of sitting on him only further illustrates your lack of knowledge regarding a situation like this.
Would you have just sat on him if he'd thrown a punch at your wife?

Maybe, just MAYBE, personal responsibility has gone straight out the window, and that's why the misnomer "police brutality" is bandied about so often.
Maybe a large portion of the population refuses to accept responsibility for their illegal actions, so they come up with a buzzword to justify the consequences anyone would face under the same conditons.

He broke the law.
He refused to accept the consequences (i.e. being arrested) even after being told SIXTEEN times (count 'em, Colonel.) to put his hands behind his back.
He was arrested in accordance with the law ... law which you should know as well as anyone else here.

His death was unfortunate, but it wasn't murder.
Would it have been citizen brutality if he'd picked a fight with six guys off the street and then died of a heart attack?

-B.



posted on Dec, 2 2003 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by Banshee
[Maybe, just MAYBE, personal responsibility has gone straight out the window, and that's why the misnomer "police brutality" is bandied about so often.
Maybe a large portion of the population refuses to accept responsibility for their illegal actions, so they come up with a buzzword to justify the consequences anyone would face under the same conditons.

He broke the law.
He refused to accept the consequences (i.e. being arrested) even after being told SIXTEEN times (count 'em, Colonel.) to put his hands behind his back.
He was arrested in accordance with the law ... law which you should know as well as anyone else here.

His death was unfortunate, but it wasn't murder.
Would it have been citizen brutality if he'd picked a fight with six guys off the street and then died of a heart attack?

-B.


So, the guy had to die because he was 350 pounds overweight and black. The police just had to beat him to death. How many black men have to get killed in Cincinatti (sp) MONTHLY for you to get a clue.

You beat one guy down. You shoot another unarmed black man in the back. Again and again and again and again and again. Eight policemen beating a black man to death. Doesn't this look familiar? IS this deja vu?

Then, you wonder why there is a riot.

Maybe, the police should practice law and order once in a while.

But, I know there is a difference here. One of the reasons he got beat down was because he was overweight. He wasn't on the Atkins Diet. Man, you know in the year 2000, if you're big and fat, you deserve a serious beating.



[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Colonel]



posted on Dec, 3 2003 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by Colonel
So, the guy had to die because he was 350 pounds overweight and black. The police just had to beat him to death. How many black men have to get killed in Cincinatti (sp) MONTHLY for you to get a clue.

You beat one guy down. You shoot another unarmed black man in the back. Again and again and again and again and again. Eight policemen beating a black man to death. Doesn't this look familiar? IS this deja vu?

Then, you wonder why there is a riot.

Maybe, the police should practice law and order once in a while.

But, I know there is a difference here. One of the reasons he got beat down was because he was overweight. He wasn't on the Atkins Diet. Man, you know in the year 2000, if you're big and fat, you deserve a serious beating.

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Colonel]


No, Colonel,
he died because he was in poor health, compounded by his (illegal!) drug use.

The more you go on about him being "beaten to death," the less water your arguments hold.

How many black (or white) men (or women) in Cininnati (or any other city) need to know what an ASP feels like before they learn 1) to put their hands behind their back when a police officer tells them to and 2) NOT TO ASSAULT A POLICE OFFICER?

A man breaks into your house, Colonel.
He punches your wife and begins to choke her.
He reaches into his jacket when you tell him to leave.
What do you do?

If someone breaks into my house, in this state I can legally shoot them.
If someone puts their hands on me, I have the right to defend myself.
I have the right to defend myself, my property, and those living with me.
The streets are a cop's home while he's on duty, the general public his family.
Of course, if you don't buy that, be sure to tell the cop who responds to your 911 call you don't want his help if, godforbid, something ever does happen in YOUR house.

And, ya know, I do wonder why there was a riot.
What good does it do to destroy your own neighborhoods? What point does that make, really?

What's the score, Gaz?

-B.





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