Stick a fork in the U.K - they're (just about) done.

Perfect response from you in light of your previously stated views.

I twisted your "logic" into a pretzel, so then you bail.

Salvate!

[edit on 12/21/2006 by centurion1211]

Whilst it's very true that the United Kingdom has its share of problems with regards to immigration and integration (anyone who denies this is clearly wrong/living under a rock), I think what you've suggested is an exaggerated 'nightmare scenario'. Which, from my own experiences and in my own opinion, won't come to pass.

If you truly believe that British people will stand by as centuries of history and tradition are smashed before their eyes, then I am afraid you are mistaken. We will defend what we stand for, as history has shown very clearly. And at the same time, if you think (or perhaps hope?) that Britons will turn on the Muslim minority then again you are mistaken. Like I said, we have our problems but we've learned that extremist views can be very dangerous in these conditions (see the Holocaust for an extreme example of what can happen to minorities).

Immigration and integration are things that all nations - particularly in the West - have to deal with and it's a different process for each nation (hence other nations may not fully understand why Britain is taking the path that it has chosen, and vice versa). It's difficult. We're democracies, so by definition (and often by law) we have to allow people the right to worship as they choose and be who they want to be. But on the other hand, we also have to ensure that everyone respects the laws of the land and gets involved with society and government via integration. And that's why it's so difficult - finding the balance between integrating into a society yet still retaining your own culture and traditions. Muslims do make up only a couple of percent of the British population, and you'll see the right wing parties and press (the Telegraph is a good example... and please don't post immigration stories from the Daily Mail because they're invariably biased ) using the issue to whip up fear which is a very irresponsible thing to do in this day and age. However, like I said, we're democracies... a free press is something that you just have to put up with sometimes

[edit on 21-12-2006 by Ste2652]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Infinite??? There must be another word that goes with that, as in "Infinitely ________" ...

Infintitely off-topic? There is no call for such incivility. Please focus on the topic at hand, and refrain from the personal snipes.

Thank you.

Did anyone not notice how riduclous and biased this thread is??

What this thread is saying basically is that since lot of babies have name mohammad, they are therefore muslim (true). When these muslim babies grow up, they will take over the government and that is a bad thing (False).

So the thread is automatically assuming that all muslim babies/adults are evil and should not hold government jobs or any high ranking position. Why is that? Why are muslims so dangerous? and done give me the terrorist crap because we all know that only a minute fraction of muslims are terrorists. And that too we can go in debate and see what causes them to become terrorists but it wud be a never ending discussion.

In any case, this thread is totally biased and downright stupid.

Evil muslims babies grow up to control the world and destroy all. What a ridiculous notion. No wonder governments get away with so much #, the populace is so stupid and paranoid without any solid proof that muslims are evil or that they are about to get them.

This thread is a positive monument to ignorance. And not merely to ignorance (which is, after all, a passive thing, the mere absence of knowledge) - but to something else, for which we have no really precise term: the opposite of thought.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but seeing so much bilge from people labouring under the delusion they can think straight makes me blunt. For example, there's nonsense like this from Xphilesphan:

If it was only 2% of your country I dont think the most popular name in the UK would be friggin mohammed!

Obviously didn't read the original article, which says

The name is 22nd in the list of most popular boys' names, moving up a place from last year.

Spelled Muhammad, it is the 44th most popular name and enters the top 50 for the first time along with Noah, Oscar, Lucas and Rhys.

It would be better to read the original article rather than just come out with frothing knee-jerk rubbish like that.

Then there's this GEM from the OP:

Regarding your own example using U.S. history, do you not understand that there was a time when the European population of "immigrants" was even much less than 2% of the total North American population? And we all know what happened.

Yeah... genocide.

To try to pretend that that is an apt analogy is either disingenuous or idiotic. There is a huge difference between an industrialised country with entrenched power structures and a pre-industrial land that is mostly wilderness with nomadic tribes people. I shouldn't have to point this out, it's so obvious, but apparently this difference eludes you.

Another pearl of wisdom from the OP:

But 30 years from now these babies will be making the decisions in Britain.

This displays a casual ignorance of the power structures in this country that is laughable. The class system is every bit as entrenched in the UK as it is in the US. You have WAY more black people in the US. When do you think there will be a black president? More to the point, when do you think there will be a Black Panther president? That's the likelihood that all these Mohammeds are going to be "making the decisions in Britain". Utter, utter codswallop.

Sminkypinkey's done the job I was about to do before I read his post. Some basic statistics and a simple grasp of the political and social structure of this country exposes this thread for the ludicrous, ignorant hogwash it so surely is.

[edit on 21-12-2006 by rich23]

Damn straight! If not wanting to trade my way of life for something with 7th century laws and customs makes me a biased person, than go ahead call me biased.

Then again, a mod just said that personal attacks were not to be allowed ...



[edit on 12/21/2006 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Damn straight! If not wanting to trade my way of life for something with 7th century laws and customs makes me a biased person, than go ahead call me biased.

Were you ever approached by a religious person in your entire life and asked to change ur life forcefully?

Lot of laws and customs today are as old as time itself yet we still follow them. Wether or not these customs are right or wrong is merely a difference of opinion.

Originally posted by silencer
Were you ever approached by a religious person in your entire life and asked to change ur life forcefully?

Yeah, they are called muslims.

No one in the west wants to follow a blatant rip off of Judaism spun to suit their arabian moon god.

Where's a koran? damn, never any good toilet paper when you need it.

Whilst it's very true that the United Kingdom has its share of problems with regards to immigration and integration (anyone who denies this is clearly wrong/living under a rock), I think what you've suggested is an exaggerated 'nightmare scenario'. Which, from my own experiences and in my own opinion, won't come to pass.

Very true, it is only a small percentage of a small percentage that are agitating for change and to impose their veiws on the majority and while I don't see it as a good idea to be too glib and dismissive about the potential for problems in the future and still feel there's a need for careful and discreet monitoring, it is nowhere near the cultural meltdown some would have us believe. I'm more worried about the lawless yobs and chavs than any radical Imams to be honest.

Originally posted by ubermunche
I'm more worried about the lawless yobs and chavs than any radical Imams to be honest.

Chavs are biggest problem for British culture. They give us a bad name.

Yes, exactly. The only difference is that radical Islam gets more media coverage than Chavs, so it appears to be more of a problem. You've got to be very, very careful about trusting the media... part of what this site is about, no?

So they will not present a problem for the future?

Tell that to the indigenous population of Bradford, Leicester, Southall, Coventry, Blackburn, Birmingham and many other British cities who have steadily watched as Muslim enclaves have established themselves and, in many cases, become 'no go' areas for the white population.

Why do they not want white man in their areas? Because they have no intention of integrating and it is now too late to try and change official government policy encouraging 'ethnic diversity'. Large numbers of these immigrants just want to set up mini Karachis and Kabuls within the UK, and nobody is doing a thing to prevent native English culture from being swamped in whole swathes of the country.

I am not a racist, but I object to the taxi drivers in Birmingham (almost 100% Pakistani) driving around with pictures of Saddam Hussein prominently displayed on their dashboards whilst our forces are fighting in Iraq. This was a deliberately provocative and very common stance amongst the Muslim Asian community in Birmingham, and no doubt in other parts of the UK too during the Gulf conflicts, effectively raising their middle fingers en masse to a very tolerant host community.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]

Originally posted by Englishman_in_Spain
I am not a racist, but I object to the taxi drivers in Birmingham (almost 100% Pakistani) driving around with pictures of Saddam Hussein prominently displayed on their dashboards whilst our forces are fighting in Iraq. This was a deliberately provocative and very common stance amongst the Muslim Asian community in Birmingham, and no doubt in other parts of the UK too during the Gulf conflicts, effectively raising their middle fingers en masse to a very tolerant host community.

Not that I'm doubting you, but
Im really curious about this but why in the world would a Pakistani want to drive around with a picture of the Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein?

I also am curious about the Englishmen_in_spain bit...assuming that you are British,and assuming you are in Spain, then I also assume that because you are white and British that it gives you full run of the house to set up shop wherever and whenever you please?

Pie

Alas, allowing them to do such a thing is part of democracy. As much as I dislike it it's something we have to put up with... a bit like the flag burning issue I suppose. Displaying Saddam is shooting themselves in the foot anyway considering the number of Muslims he imprisoned, tortured and murdered (a lot of Kurds are Muslims). In fact, Saddam did far more to harm Islam than the West.

Good to see that we're plumbing new depths.

We have sweeping statements, and broad generalizations based on colour of skin, creed, and now name. Sweet. Eye colour coming up soon? At least it serves as something to show those who ask "what is ignorance anyway?"

This place is going to the dogs...

I agree - this is like using a bucket of blood and fish guts as bait.

Some of the astounding ignorance and racism on here and the other, now closed, thread does make me worry about the future of this board.

What's up guys you get tired of slagging off the US hispanics so thought you'd flex your hatred on someone else?

i don't really understand your point, just over 3000 babys called Mohammed out of our 1.8 million muslim popualation (so thats not bad) what you also haveto remember is Mohammed is the most popular muslim name, so most muslim born children will be called that anyway.

as for america going it alone *i wish* its about time they sorted out their own problems.

but theres 8 million muslims living in the US, so i can turn round and say they are invading your land + mexicans running over the boarders, so don't go on about britain's immgration problem when the US is a nation based on immgration anyway.

=====
(US population) 300 million, 8 million muslims
(UK population) 61 million, 1.8 million muslims.
=====

also look how many foreign names are on this list:-

216.239.59.104...:kqeRcHbI6ucJ:www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/decades/names2000s.html+popular+us+names&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=2
(and jesus at 67th)!!

names don't concern me though, espcially when Mohammed is only 20 something on the UK list, what scares me is a country that is stupid enough to elect president Arnold Schwarzenegger


[edit on 23-12-2006 by Sepiroth]

Centurion, What war on terror are you talking about, do you mean the one cooked up by people in your own country who then convince you that there are alot of people out there who hate America and its people. Well when you conive to invade other peoples countries and murder the indeginous population, rob the country of its wealth and seek to impose your way of life on them then yes one could say you are storing up problems for the future.

Being a Brit we've done that, worn the tee shirt etc. so I know what I'm talking about. And we did it so well for so long, yet you Americans always seem to fall on your arses, you know Vietnam, Korea, and now Iraq. You spend so much time telling us how great the US is and how powerful your military is but in reality you cannot quite deliver. The UK has a long and varied history all of which has made for a great country, America is relatively young but is making all the mistakes as would a juvenille, and is not learning from those mistakes.

But you can be excused because Americans are not in charge of their country or running it, no the people who set America up are still running the show only now they are sending you to fight the wars instead of us. Want to know who they are, THEIR EUROPEANS, so I dont think you need to be to concerned about babies names, that's the least of your worries, no you need to be worried about what we Europeans have in store for you instead of falling for the Magicians Muslim trick, us Euro's are experts at it, we know every trick in the book. Who do you think tought your CIA and the rest of the gang.

When we have squeezed America dry we will move on but its not all bad, when we pull the plug on the money supply, you know that 9 trillion and counting that you owe we will look after you as your old pals. America will be our new source of cheap labour, babies names what a joke.

This is such a funny thread. I do laugh at some of you people.

Every single male Muslim is called Muhammed. They're not taking over the country. It's just rare that more than 1% of the population is given the same name, when there are hundreds to choose from. People do a little research before you post things save us all some time.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Not that I'm doubting you, but
Im really curious about this but why in the world would a Pakistani want to drive around with a picture of the Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein?

I also am curious about the Englishmen_in_spain bit...assuming that you are British,and assuming you are in Spain, then I also assume that because you are white and British that it gives you full run of the house to set up shop wherever and whenever you please?

Pie

I posted on the understanding that this was a debate amongst intelligent people. Then you go and shatter my illusion.

Why would Pakistanis display a picture of the Iraqi leader? Well if you really need to ask the question then perhaps all this is too grown up for you. Nevertheless I will tell you. Listen very carefully. It is an act designed to show solidarity with their Muslim brothers against the western infidel, and also as a deliberate provocation of the population of their host country, many of whom will be riding in their taxis. OK? Got it now?

What makes you think I am white? Where have I mentioned my own colour? Is it because of the nature of my posting? Is it because I am called Englishman_in_Spain? There are many black Britons in Spain. Equally, there are many black Britons who are just as dismayed wth the Asian enclaves as white Britons are. Where have I even hinted that I believe myself to have 'the run of the house'because I am white? I could absolutely wipe the floor with such rubbish.

Other than the fact that I am an Englishman and live in Spain, you know nothing about me. so be very careful about making ridiculous assumptions when you are not in full possession of the facts. You only make yourself look very stupid.

With regard to why I live in Spain, I am exercising the right of an EU citizen to reside in any member state. I am a fully integrated immigrant, have learned to speak the language of my host country and respect their values and customs. Now where do you choose to live, and why?


[edit on 24-12-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]