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Others: Unbreakable Sports Records

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posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 01:15 AM
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Last night, the Philadelphia Phillies' Chase Utley had his hitting streak end at 35 games--21 short of Joe DiMaggio's all time record. The Yankee Clipper's record is often looked at as one of the most unbreakable records in sports; some lists have it at #1. What sports records do you think are unbreakable? Think of any record, no matter how obscure, but try to keep the observations to well established American sports.

On ESPN Radio's "The Herd", Colin Cowherd observed recently that Wilt Chamberlain once averaged 48.5 minutes a game one season (1961-62).

Wayne Gretzky has a lot of records, but one of the most unapproachable--based on the style of today's game--is his single season mark of 163 assists in 1985-86. The second best mark is 28 back at 135, and it's also by Gretzky. The top number a player not the Great One is 114 by Mario Lemieux in 1988-89. If Lemieux could only get within 49, then I don't think anyone else is ever going to break that record of Gretzky's.




posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 04:14 PM
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The most unbreakable baseball records are pretty much all owned by Cy Young, such as 511 career wins and something like 700 complete games.

Even in the stench of Steroid/HGH Ball, it's hard to imagine anyone's touching Babe Ruth's record of a .690 career slugging percentage, which is a major record and which he holds by a whopping 56 points (over Ted Williams). He also still has all sorts of minor records which even Barrhoid Bonds hasn't gotten at. Sam Crawford's career triples record--312, I think--also seems rock-solid safe in this day of speedy outfielders and no more parks where it's 470 or 505 to CF.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 05:10 PM
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I don't believe anyone will break Cal Ripken Jr.s streak of 2000+ games in a row, players these day's get hurt too much for anyone to come close. Orel Hershiser's 59 consecutive scoreless innings will be tough to match also, players these days are just too good at hitting the ball. here's another that won't be broken anytime soon either, Leon Cadore and Joe Oeschger both pitched 26 inning complete games in 1920, i don't suppose they used pitch counts back then.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 01:20 AM
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Wilt Chamberlain and Wayne Gretzky can battle it out for the rank of who has the most unbreakable records. Gretzky has 61 NHL records, including career points (2857), goals (894), and assists (1963--his career number of assists alone is enough to place him #1 all time in points), and single season points (215, 1985-86), goals (92, 1981-82), and assists (163, 1985-86). His career marks, especially his points and assists records, seem well out of reach.

Chamberlain also holds a multitude of records that seem unachievable. In 1960-61, Chamberlain tallied 2159 rebounds at an average of 27.2 PPG (both records), and the follwing year he posted 4029 points: a ridiculous 50.4 average! He also achieved another record that year that will never be approached. He played every minute but six for the season: an average of 48.5 per game.

I think I would give the nod to Gretzky because of his career numbers. Plus, he won eight consecutive MVP awards; no one in any other sport can approach that.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 08:18 AM
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All of these records would be hard to break, but I'll have to agree with BHN, Cy Young's records are the next best thing to untouchable. It's a rarity that a pitcher even gets 300 wins anymore, let alone nearly doubling that...



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Gibbs Baby!!!
All of these records would be hard to break, but I'll have to agree with BHN, Cy Young's records are the next best thing to untouchable. It's a rarity that a pitcher even gets 300 wins anymore, let alone nearly doubling that...


don't forget that Cy Young also holds the MLB loss record at 316. nobody will ever touch that one, no team would keep a player around long enough to lose that many games.



posted on Aug, 12 2006 @ 11:42 PM
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Although Nolan Ryan did come darn close to that loss mark. He had 292 losses in his career. Then again, he did pitch for 27 seasons, and I think you're right that no one is going to stay around that long anymore.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 03:08 AM
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I deliberately didn't include any of Young's records. He has a zillion of them: innings pitched, complete games (something like 750!!!), etc. Nobody will come within light years. But that was pseudo-pitching, back in the days when only 1/3 or 1/4 of one's pitches were thrown hard, and the rest were "paced"--i.e., lobbed--thus enabling pitchers to throw a zillion innings, pitch 18-inning games, pitch on consecutive days, etc., etc.

As all of this site's veterans will recall, this is why I'm just not that impressed with Dead Ball pitchers. That said, however, I've read a 2nd Johnson bio recently--one not nearly as treacly and biased as the hagiography his grandson, Henry Thomas, wrote--and I'm going to look for a critically acclaimed 3rd such bio. I've been persuaded by several very knowledgeably people to move Johnson from my #10 pitcher to my #FOUR (yes, you read it right) pitcher, and ahead of St. Pedro, because it doesn't matter how great your Adjusted ERA is for 6 innings if a cr@ppy middle reliever has to pitch the 7th and 8th. I'm also considering putting Alexander in the bottom part of my Top 10. But no more of them, I promise.

BHN



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by BaseballHistoryNut
But that was pseudo-pitching, back in the days when only 1/3 or 1/4 of one's pitches were thrown hard, and the rest were "paced"--i.e., lobbed--thus enabling pitchers to throw a zillion innings, pitch 18-inning games, pitch on consecutive days, etc., etc.

As all of this site's veterans will recall, this is why I'm just not that impressed with Dead Ball pitchers.
BHN


Not having read many of your posts on baseball (I'm just not that big of a fan, at least at this piont), I think you have answered a question I've had, that being what the definition of the "Deal Ball Era" is. Could you expound?



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 12:58 PM
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I know BHN explained that at length in one thread, but I can't remember which one. Go to Wikipedia; they have a great summary of the Dead Ball Era.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Gibbs Baby!!!

Originally posted by BaseballHistoryNut
But that was pseudo-pitching, back in the days when only 1/3 or 1/4 of one's pitches were thrown hard, and the rest were "paced"--i.e., lobbed--thus enabling pitchers to throw a zillion innings, pitch 18-inning games, pitch on consecutive days, etc., etc.

As all of this site's veterans will recall, this is why I'm just not that impressed with Dead Ball pitchers.
BHN


Not having read many of your posts on baseball (I'm just not that big of a fan, at least at this piont), I think you have answered a question I've had, that being what the definition of the "Deal Ball Era" is. Could you expound?


They used to play with one ball for the whole game, and it didn't have nearly as lively a reaction to the bat as the ball introduced in 1920 did. Babe Ruth occasionally hit one in the seats from 1915-1919, but no mere mortal could do so, so doubles and triples were the signs of sluggers.

Cobb and Speaker, the Dead Ball Era's greatest sluggers, both had over 1,000 combined doubles and triples, an outstanding feat. And I'm sure when one of them was at the plate (or a few other batters), pitchers didn't lob their pitches in.

But check the batting averages and power stats of whole teams from back then. Most hitters had dismal averages. The game was all about fielding skills (which required a lot of ability, with THOSE balls, THOSE gloves, and the way the infield was butchered), getting someone on first base, and moving him around via sacrifices and stolen bases.

And against the mediocre vast majority of hitters, pitchers just didn't throw very hard. Many books were written during the era, one famously by Christy Mathewson (a real pitching legend), about pacing oneself on the mound.

From 1920 on, "pacing" became a crock of b.s., just like it would be today. If you "paced" yourself, any legitimate major leaguer could at least get a double or triple with the live ball, and a few great ones could hit it out of the park. I can only imagine what would have happened to the guy who "paced" himself against Babe Ruth.


So that's what I'm talking about, and it's why I don't feel Dead Ball Era pitchers deserve "full faith and credit" in the rankings as all-time pitchers. The first truly great pitcher to pitch his entire career in the Live Ball Era, starting in MLB in 1925 and spending 100% of his MLB career with horrible home parks for left-handed pitchers, yet nonetheless racking up the greatest stats any pitcher ever racked up, was Lefty Grove. Only Clemens is close in stats.

THAT was a real pitcher. So were, in chronological order, Hubbell, Dean, Feller, Newhouser, Spahn, Wynn, Roberts, Ford, Koufax, Marichal, Gibson, Seaver, Carlton, Palmer, Neikro and a whole boatload of guys in the 25 years since then, known to all of you--and headed, IMO, by Clemens, Maddux and Pedro, each of whom has an arguable case as the greatest pitcher ever, though Pedro's lack of stamina is making his case a tough one to argue, despite his other-worldly W-L% and Adjusted ERA (both of which are better than Grove's, whereas none of other above-named pitches is better than Grove in EITHER category, except Ford in W-L%).



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Thanks for the info, BHN, now I know baseball a little bit better than I did yesterday. Someday, I may get it all down (lol!)

Mathewson went to school at Bucknell, which is 10 minutes from my hometown. The current player in the bigs from that area is Steve Kline, who is playing for your Giants, I beleive as the set up guy.


Back on topic, I wonder if we can consider Wilt's 10,000+ "conquests" as a stat?



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 07:15 AM
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looking at football, it's tough to imagine Jerry Rice's career 23,540 yards from scrimmage or 208 career touchdwn records broken, but they're relatively recent so who knows? If Marvin Harrison stays healthy and plays a long time....

If I had to pick one NFL record least likely to be broken, it would be Blanda's record of playing 26 seasons.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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I can see Blanda'a record being broken by a kicker. Morten Andersen and Gary Anderson both played 23 seasons, so I can see some kicker breaking that one.

I don't see Rice's career yards mark or his career receiving TD mark being broken. Harrison could conceivably break the career receptions mark; he's already well ahead of Rice's pace in that area. As for the career TD mark, think of this. Shaun Alexander, in only six seasons, has 100 touchdowns. If he can play 14 or 15 seasons, he could break Rice's 208. Of course, running backs usually have shorter careers thann wide receivers, Alexander really has to be consistent.



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