Okay, I can see that there has to be a failure in communication here, so I'm going to explain myself more.

I asked for whatever clues you're referring to, whatever led you to this belief that it's not simply prehistoric Iraq.

Give me a starting point.

Give me something to look at.

Give me anything that supports your viewpoint that is more specific than "the land might have been washed away so they had to rename it."

Give me a source of your information.

Give me a reference.

Something.

Anything.

That's all I'm asking for here. Give me some kind of evidence that supports your viewpoint.



Ask, and Ye shall Recieve.............

"He is the God who sits in the center, on the navel of the earth, and he is the interpreter of religion to all mankind."
-- Plato.

"According to all procurable data, that spot at the era of man's appearance upon the stage was in the now lost 'Miocene continent,' which then surrounded the Arctic Pole. That in that true, original Eden some of the early generations of men attained to a stature and longevity unequaled in any countries known to postdiluvian history is by no means scientifically incredible." - Wm. F. Warren, "Paradise Found," p. 284.

"we were taken overland to the city of "Eden," in a conveyance different from anything we have in Europe or America"

"In this garden four rivers have their source in a mighty artesian fountain. They divide and flow in four directions. This place is called by inhabitants the "navel of the earth," or the beginning, "the cradle of the human race." The names of the rivers are the Euphrates, the Pison, the Gihon, and the Hiddekel."

Genesis 1:6,7,8 'And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. And God called the firmament heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.'

Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Ge 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


Here is your start, your hints. If you need more, U2U me..............

Solomon didn't read my posts but oke that's also fine with me.

Come on men are you serious when you are going to take 2 trees in a garden seriously as being two trees? Or are you going to think about the fact that it could be synonymous just like the 5 trees in paradise (if you know them you will not taste death) and the tree on the mountain the Sinai. Are you going to take it literally or are there still some persons which also see it as being synonymous to something else.

Edit: good post all seeing eye.

[Edited on 30-11-2003 by LeenBekkemaa]

I don't however it was some place on earth, but what do you mean by "to keep the way of the tree of live"?

Originally posted by BradPimp
For years, I was taught the garden of eden was true. Now I wonder. Was the garden of eden truly a place or just a nice little story with a moral and why our lives suck so badly?

People throughout history have talked about some paradise lost, and this is an interesting one.

What do you guys think?

I think those who believe the Bible is God's word will believe that Eden was as Eden is depicted.

I imagine those who do not believe will not believe there was an Eden.

I figure this is the most sensible answer, don't you? If you don't believe in God and think the Bible is nothing, why would yopu believe the one story about Eden?
If you believe in God and take the Bible as His word to you, why would you disbelieve it from the very begining?

Thank you, ASE -- I'll be looking into this more tomorrow morning after work.

Originally posted by LeenBekkemaa
I don't however it was some place on earth, but what do you mean by "to keep the way of the tree of live"?

"To keep the way to the tree of Life"

It is a sign to show you the way back to the garden...............................

The "Tree" is the way humanity is viewed. As in a FAMILY TREE.................

[Edited on 30-11-2003 by All Seeing Eye]

Yes I thought something already to. Could it be that the tree is synonymous to the hyarchy? The root is where the most knowledge is, the branches growing out of it is the knowledge which the following Gods have, and menkind can only eat of the fruit of the tree yet... the lowest information available...

But I am wondering... (not that the above necessarely is right) but most of the things in religions you can see as being synonymous to something else, something which they saw, but didn't knew what it was.

Are we going to look at the 5 trees in paradise... whoever knows them will not taste death... then you have to say that the hierarchy isn't the best solution...?

Perphaps a hierarchy of the departments of the Gods? Just like the sixth book of Moses? The tree of knowledge is a department (database) tree of live is the department of the medical Gods? And so also the 5 trees in paradise...

I don't really know to what it is synonymous, but it must be very usefull, concerning the 5 trees in paradise...

Do you have an answer?

Then another question:
Is Eden perhaps the name of the person which owns the garden? Or has it some meaning? Or is it just a name?

To start, this thread was about the reality of the garden. I will try to stay within that thought.

The 5 tree's mentioned are the family tree's of the 5 original human races. They all had there "gienisis" in the same garden. I thought there was more than 5, more like 7.

Religion is nothing more than a mind control pardigm created by the "Cherubims" who were charged with keeping mankind from re-entering the garden. But I have a strong suspition that those orders didn't come from God almighty, but came from the father of all lies.

There seems to be a conflict in the scriptures concerning re-entering the garden. On one side we have Cherubims keeping us out, but on the other, we have a great sign showing us the way back "The Flaming Sword which shows in all directions". If God almighty didn't want us to re-enter, why would there be a sign, showing us the way back?

To find our true homeland one must overcome the "Mind Games" of the Cherbims. As Plato said "He is the God who sits in the center, on the navel of the earth, and he is the interpreter of religion to all mankind." So it seems the whole idea of religion comes from the garden, not God.

I find that if you read the bible as if it were just a history book that has been taken competly out of context you will be far ahead of the cheribim's mind control game.

The book "First Man, Then Adam" has a great theory about what Genesis meant and what the Garden was.
It goes something like this:
Eden was a spacecraft. Adam and Eve were part of the crew that crashed here. The tree of knowledge was a computer, as was the tree of life. These beings (scientists) interbread (genetically engeneered) with primative man (explaination of lifespans from the bible reducing through the generations). It goes on like that from there...interesting point of view.

Yes, but that line of thought dosnt take into account the different Human races. If it were true we were just abandon here, there would only be one race by now.............

Question, was that book written by a Mason?

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Yes, but that line of thought dosnt take into account the different Human races. If it were true we were just abandon here, there would only be one race by now.............

Question, was that book written by a Mason?

I'm not sure if you were refering to my post... but if you were here it goes...
No, a scientist I believe. If alien scientists, using genetics, created hybrids with all the different races here on earth, then there would be different hybrid versions of all the races.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Yes, but that line of thought doesnt take into account the different Human races. If it were true we were just abandon here, there would only be one race by now.............

Question, was that book written by a Mason?

Why should there be only one race? Because of Adam and Eve? All religions have a beginning with two persons, so there would perhaps be a lot more made then just 2 persons. And you have to admit... there is also just one race... you perhaps say that the people look different and stuff, but their brain works the same. They can also understand what we understand, they only don't live in the right atmosphere. The races between menkind are a lot diffferent then the races between dogs, the dogs are really very different, while we still look the same and have the same capabilities...

I also thought about the fact that the trees were departments of the spacecrafts. Jesus explicitely says that if you know the five trees in paradise you will not taste death... 5 family trees enough to keep you alive if you understand, that much knowledge?

Don't forget the tree on the mountain the Sinai... God landed there too... and even in the Bible the thing in which God flew is kinda strangelooking for an "allmightyness"...

riffraffalunas, those sites give a litteral meaning to the Garden of Eden and paradise, is it really logical that if you do know what the 5 trees in paradise are (which never change) with as answer "they are the fingers" that then you will not taste death...

Paradise is supposed to be above the earth, not on the earth... and concerning the other religions with their airplanes, that also could be a very good possibility...

Is the one idea really as valid as the other?

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by LeenBekkemaa]

OK, here's my thoughts on Eden and it's Garden. I believe that Eden was the term for God and it's Paradise is Heaven. My reason for this is that in Genesis 2 it refers to Paradise in Eden. I think that the Garden of Eden should be interpreted as the Garden of, or existing in, Eden rather than the Garden called Eden.

The below translation is from an English translation of the original Aramaic cuniform, and I don't expect it to be accepted by most steadfast KJV readers. It has clarified many questions I, personally, have had though.
8. And the Lord God had consecrated Paradise in Eden from before, and there He set Adam whom He had molded.
9. And the Lord God supplied from the earth all that is pleasing to the sight and delicious to eat and the Tree of Life in the midst of Paradise.
10. And the river flowed out of Eden to irrigate the Paradise
15. And the Lord God fetched Adam and left them in the Paradise of Eden...
22. And the Lord God said, "Behold, Adam wanted to be like one of us, to know the good and the evil; now, that is why he extended his hand and took from the tree of life and ate, so he could live forever."*
23. And the Lord God sent him from Eden's Paradise to work the earth that He consecrated off from there.
24. And so the Lord God ejected him, and there shot up for them from the East of the Paradise of Eden the plants of carob and a perishable life at the edge of the sword, so as there would be one day a return to the way of the Tree of Life.*

The final verse (24) indicates that death was the means by which we could return to way of the Tree of Life which exists in Eden. I believe that Paradise is a place of eternal bliss, like heaven is supposed to be, and existence within God (Eden) would be Paradise.

I am still trying to understand the truth that I feel is being shown to me, and this by no means is an infallible theory. It is just the way that I understand what I have read and studied, thus far.

Uhm... then the Garden of Eden would just be a department of Paradise... and the 2 trees are standing in that department, while the total of trees in paradise are 5...

So 2 out of the 5 trees are situated in the Garden of Eden...

Could it be related directly to the departments described in the sixth book of Moses?

Originally posted by LeenBekkemaa
Then another question:
Is Eden perhaps the name of the person which owns the garden? Or has it some meaning? Or is it just a name?

I wondered this myself, because of the verses in Ezekiel:
Chapter 27
22 The merchants of Sheba and Raamah, they were thy merchants: they occupied in thy fairs with chief of all spices, and with all precious stones, and gold.
23 Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Assur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.

Amos, chapter 1
"5": I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD

and 2 Chronicles, chapter 29
12": Then the Levites arose, Mahath the son of Amasai, and Joel the son of Azariah, of the sons of the Kohathites: and of the sons of Merari, Kish the son of Abdi, and Azariah the son of Jehalelel: and of the Gershonites; Joah the son of Zimmah, and Eden the son of Joah:

I'm not sure how these affect interpretation of the Paradise in Eden.