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Kofi Annan condemns Israeli barrier

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posted on Nov, 29 2003 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Mycroft
All these measures you talk about, the security fence, the checkpoints, are a direct result of terrorism. Yes, they are hard on the Palestinian-Arabs, but you canít really expect the Israelis to just accept their citizens being murdered either.



I think itís odd that the feature of Israeli security that draws the most criticism is the security fence, yet thatís also the most non-violent. For a fraction of the cost, Israel could just bomb the crap out of them. That they choose instead to build a very expensive barrier that doesnít kill anyone




The problem is not that nobody is taking necessary steps for peace, the problem is that those pushing for war are more effective.

I agree with you here. Sharon is one of these people. .

Take Hamas, for example. They are a terrorist organization dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Thatís not exaggeration, they say this openly. At the same time, Hamas pays for social services that the Palestinian-Authority doesnít. They provide food to the poor, build hospitals, and essentially behave like the government that the Palestinian-Authority (the ones that are supposed to be the government) refuses to be.

[url]
Israel gave major to aid to Hamas

Saturday, 24 February 2001 11:28 (ET)


Israel gave major to aid to Hamas
By RICHARD SALE, Terrorism Correspondent

NEW YORK, Feb. 24 (UPI) -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Speaking of the Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas recently described it as "the deadliest terrorist group that we have ever had to face."

Active in Gaza and the West Bank Hamas wants to liberate all of Palestine and establish a radical Islamic state in place of Israel. It has gained notoriety with its assassinations, car bombs and other acts of terrorism.

But Sharon had left something out.

Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, According to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and Dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.



When the Israelis (aided by the U.S. or the Egyptians or whoever) negotiate peace, they negotiate with Arafat, the head of the Palestinian-Authority which used to be the PLO. Thatís a terrorist organization thatís a rival to Hamas for power. Hamas doesnít feel bound by any negotiation the PA agrees to, so when the peace talks are going good, they just step up the terror to derail it.

Yes. Arafat is a war criminal too, just as Sharon is.
Arafat is the war criminal.
Do you not remember Damour Lebanon. Let me remind you. Arafat and the PLO plunged Lebanon into "massacres, rape, mutilation, rampages of looting and killings. Out of a population of 3.2 million, some 40,000 or more people had been killed, 100,000 wounded, 5,000 permanently maimed

In January of 1976, the destruction of Damour, a town of some 25,000 was completed by the PLO within two weeks. "The priest of Damour, Father Mansour Labaky desperately trying to save people of the town telephoned Kamal Jumblat [one of the Lebanese leaders], in whose parliamentary constituency Damour lay. 'Father, Jumblat said, 'I can do nothing for you, because it depends on Yasser Arafat' "



A lot of them do, but itís not their fault. The Palestinian-Arabs live under a constant barrage of propaganda from their television to their political leaders, even their schools and their Mosques telling them that all their problems are the fault of Israel,

which in my opinion is partly true.


The truth is that their real problems are their own corrupt government (Arafat runs the PA like a mafia-style don) and a handful of militants that keep the fighting going. If it were not for those, they would have had independence and peace a long time ago.

In my opionion this is partly true


Sharon is not a war criminal. He is a hard-liner who favors military solutions, but he does want peace.

Sharon was involved in the massacre of 2000 palestinian men, women and children. The BBC did a documentary about it showing how when he was resposible for the terrible event. Lawyers in Belgium are trying to get him pinned for war crimes.

Look I really have to go. I am away for the weekend and don't now if I will get to a computer. I want to continue this debate and finish up the rest of these points as soon as possible. . .



[Edited on 043030p://666 by earthtone]




posted on Nov, 29 2003 @ 06:42 AM
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Israel oppresses the "Palestinians"?
No, if you want to find out who oppresses the "Palestinians", you'd better do some reading, and not propaganda reading. Find out why they are where they are, who talked them into leaving their comfortable homes in Israel and who has turned their backs on them after they turned their backs on Israel.

And, while you're at it, call the "West Bank" by its proper names; Samaria and Judea.



posted on Nov, 29 2003 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by earthtone
Israel gave major to aid to Hamas


You miss the point completely. Iím not talking about Hamas just to talk about them, Iím trying to give you a hint of the complexity of the situation.

Yeah, Israel gave aid to Hamas thirty years ago. Back then the big enemy was the PLO, and it was hoped that by encouraging a rival, the power of the PLO could be weakened. It was a stupid plan that backfired. Your own sources back this up.

which in my opinion is partly true.
In my opionion this is partly true

In some truths opinion is very important. For others, itís more important to know the facts. Itís important to know the difference.


Originally posted by earthtone
Sharon was involved in the massacre of 2000 palestinian men, women and children. The BBC did a documentary about it showing how when he was resposible for the terrible event. Lawyers in Belgium are trying to get him pinned for war crimes.


If you would like to learn more about Israelís involvement in Lebanon, I recommend From Israel to Damascus: Lebanon, they Mystery of the Unknown by Robert Maroun Hatem.


[Edited on 30-11-2003 by Mycroft]





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