It really amazes me the diatribe and insults that some people write and believe about the Craft (Freemasonry)
Ignorant people have always been afraid of what they dont understand, take
Freemasonry here in Scotland the birthplace of the brotherhood (in accepted terms) is an Organization which exists to take good men and try and make them better.
The rituals and degrees are only a little part of what goes on in a Masonic lodge.
The gerneral public well the ignorant anyway will always convince themselves that something shady is going on(they use secret passwords they must be Devil worshipers,they dress up in funny outfits they must be Satanists, Washington was a Mason they try to dominate world politics)all absolute nonsense.
Some think that the run of the mill blue lodge Mason does not know what the higher ranks get upto, they think that once they are passed the lower degrees that the real shady stuff starts, rubbish the higher degrees exists so that men can take their membership further and understand more about the Craft.
Of course like all Organizations there will be a few bad apples who bring the name of the Brotherhood into disrepute but hey it has existed since the 18th century so the little bad press it has had is slim compared to some others
Look at the charities the Freemasons donate to most anonymously i may add.
The outings they arrange for underprivileged children which make some kids life that little bit better.
Of course there are theorys out there that would like to suggest the connection with the Templars, The Bilderburgers ,new world order all nonsense (personally i would love someone to prove the Templar thing as what a great connection to the most Prestigious miltary order of all time (of course there is the theories that surround their history but thats for another post.)
So the next time you pass a Masonic lodge and get a shiver down your spine stop to think about the truth and dont let yourself be brainwashed by the cranks.

S@F

Thats also a bit naive on your part if you think everyone takes all this stuff and instantly believes it. Most people like to research behind the theories and ideas that are thrown around on here, just to get the more factual picture. I guess their are some people like you describe, but dont paint everyone with the same brush

how is it making you a better person when your not making the world any better, your still a peasant and gonna die a peasant if there is nothing the masons are doing besides donating to charities and helping a few kids. why wouldn't we think the masons are shady with a post like that, theres no substance to it

"(in accepted terms) is an Organization which exists to take good men and try and make them better."

What does this mean, exactly? Is it a organization that must be accepted? I believe the boy scouts and girl scouts do the same thing ( good boys and girls), making them better, but as far as I know these two organizations dont require the kids to take a "Oath to the death".

Speaking of Oath, how can a person who has taken a oath to the death hold a public office where the oath they take is only punishable by a 20,000 fine, and maybe 5 years in prison.

It seems to me that I would be, beholding to the craft before the american people. One is just gonna cost you some money and time, the other will cost you your life.
Simple choice, so I cant see how masons are "fit" for Gov duty.

America is suppose to be a "Open Society". How can you expect that to survive when you "Accept" secret societies to co-exsist within?

To me, Freemasonry is a fungus among us, and should be "UN-ACCEPTED"!!!

Originally posted by Rosslyntemplar
It really amazes me the diatribe and insults that some people write and believe about the Craft (Freemasonry)
Ignorant people have always been afraid of what they dont understand, take
Freemasonry here in Scotland the birthplace of the brotherhood (in accepted terms) is an Organization which exists to take good men and try and make them better.
The rituals and degrees are only a little part of what goes on in a Masonic lodge.
The gerneral public well the ignorant anyway will always convince themselves that something shady is going on(they use secret passwords they must be Devil worshipers,they dress up in funny outfits they must be Satanists, Washington was a Mason they try to dominate world politics)all absolute nonsense.
Some think that the run of the mill blue lodge Mason does not know what the higher ranks get upto, they think that once they are passed the lower degrees that the real shady stuff starts, rubbish the higher degrees exists so that men can take their membership further and understand more about the Craft.
Of course like all Organizations there will be a few bad apples who bring the name of the Brotherhood into disrepute but hey it has existed since the 18th century so the little bad press it has had is slim compared to some others
Look at the charities the Freemasons donate to most anonymously i may add.
The outings they arrange for underprivileged children which make some kids life that little bit better.
Of course there are theorys out there that would like to suggest the connection with the Templars, The Bilderburgers ,new world order all nonsense (personally i would love someone to prove the Templar thing as what a great connection to the most Prestigious miltary order of all time (of course there is the theories that surround their history but thats for another post.)
So the next time you pass a Masonic lodge and get a shiver down your spine stop to think about the truth and dont let yourself be brainwashed by the cranks.

S@F

I am glad someone took the time to say that. I guess people are afraid of what they dont know. I found that when I confront people with the fact that I have friends that are involved with that, and they are good people, the resort to the....."only the high ranking" routine. The high ranking werent always that way. There isnt a conspiracy. Its just a group that some people are not a part of. Like when you were a kid and opened up your "exclusive" club house. You didnt allow everyone in it. (If some of you did not do this when you are a kid dont give me a hard time because you know the point I am trying to make). People are looking for something that is not there.

Originally posted by banjoechef
how is it making you a better person when your not making the world any better, your still a peasant and gonna die a peasant if there is nothing the masons are doing besides donating to charities and helping a few kids. why wouldn't we think the masons are shady with a post like that, theres no substance to it

Donating to charities and helping kids are essential to making the world a better place. Imagine if everyone did that.

Are there bigger things that also need to be done? Yes, of course, but that doesn't take away from the importance of the everyday little things that we all can do.

Sorry, I have lived enough to know that good deeds are often a shielding.
People think if you do something good it makes you a good person. This puts you in a position where people do not suspect you as easily of doing something evil.

Look at Priests that molest. Cops that are dirty.
I could go on and on.
Yes good deeds are wonderful, but that does not mean the people that do them are only good.

If a person is good they have nothing to hide.

What are you hiding?

Ahhhh Rosslyntemplar,

Please do not speak in general terms; you make it sound like everyone is ignorant. I for example have been doing extensive study on the topic of Freemasonry. I can tell you that firstly that Freemasonry is much older then the 18th century. Being a Mason you should of known that. Also as a Mason, you should know that Freemasonry is based on a hierarchy system. What one person knows in one degree varies in the degree above.

I do not believe that Freemasons are Satanic. But I do believe that is a system that has deceived its members. On the bases of causing one to believe they have an understanding of Freemasonry. When the true meaning is yet to be revealed.

You say we are ignorant. How can a person know something when something is a closely guarded secret? Would you want us to break into your lodges and steal documents? This is what baffles me about Freemasons calling the general population ignorant. You point your finger and call us a bunch of idiots. When supposedly you have this awesome, life changing knowledge. This is being hypocritical. Everyone hates a hypocrite.

I was a 32nd degree mason for many years and found them to be nothing more than a benevolent brotherhood whose aim was to take a good man and make him better. They eliminated any potential members that did not meet standards of integrity and trustworthiness by means of a blackball, before any initiation. They are properly a secret organization and it serves them well. It was, for instance, the lodge in Boston that dumped the British tea in the harbor, and it was a very anti-nazi organization during WWII. Open membership rolls would have resulted in death to the members. They never ask anyone to join; the request has to come from the potential member himself and after he has been screened to keep out idiots and old men in their dotage among others, the name is brought up before the assembled lodge. In all the years I was a member, I only saw one black ball employed and sure enough, the candidate was a bit of a rascal. So I have serious doubts that Saddam was a "brother". However, I am not privy to the membership rolls of a particular lodge and in spite of today's situation, it must be remembered that Saddam was a compliant ally in that he attacked Iran with weapons we provided and for our national purposes was a "jolly good fellow" until we decided he gone too far in attacking Kuwait after we had given him permission. Almost all of our founding fathers were Masons and our founding documents were all Masonic in origin and principle. Additionally, Masons aid hundreds of children through scholarships and institutions such as the Shriners hospitals. Members do not start as benevolent brothers and after moving beyond the 32nd degree, suddenly change their spots and become evil, power hungry monsters intent upon taking over the world. They have often been under dark suspicion primarily because they do not openly espouse Christianity (although they are strong deists). Why do they do that? So they can sit in lodge with brothers from different religions; Jews, Moslems, Buddists, Hindus, Christians, etc, et al can all enjoy brotherhood within the sanctity of the lodge. Every Mason I knew was a Christian, but they did not make a big deal of it in lodge since it is not a church. Each brother was expected to attend his own church or synagoge and I have sat in Lodge with Catholics and Jews. So lets please have a bit of charity. If you believe in God and want to find out what goes on, find a Mason and ask him to help you join. You can then find out for yourself the truth and believe me, it is not what 98% of the posts I have read here are fantasizing about.

Originally posted by Timberline
I was a 32nd degree mason for many years and found them to be nothing more than a benevolent brotherhood whose aim was to take a good man and make him better. They eliminated any potential members that did not meet standards of integrity and trustworthiness by means of a blackball, before any initiation. They are properly a secret organization and it serves them well. It was, for instance, the lodge in Boston that dumped the British tea in the harbor, and it was a very anti-nazi organization during WWII. Open membership rolls would have resulted in death to the members. They never ask anyone to join; the request has to come from the potential member himself and after he has been screened to keep out idiots and old men in their dotage among others, the name is brought up before the assembled lodge. In all the years I was a member, I only saw one black ball employed and sure enough, the candidate was a bit of a rascal. So I have serious doubts that Saddam was a "brother". However, I am not privy to the membership rolls of a particular lodge and in spite of today's situation, it must be remembered that Saddam was a compliant ally in that he attacked Iran with weapons we provided and for our national purposes was a "jolly good fellow" until we decided he gone too far in attacking Kuwait after we had given him permission. Almost all of our founding fathers were Masons and our founding documents were all Masonic in origin and principle. Additionally, Masons aid hundreds of children through scholarships and institutions such as the Shriners hospitals. Members do not start as benevolent brothers and after moving beyond the 32nd degree, suddenly change their spots and become evil, power hungry monsters intent upon taking over the world. They have often been under dark suspicion primarily because they do not openly espouse Christianity (although they are strong deists). Why do they do that? So they can sit in lodge with brothers from different religions; Jews, Moslems, Buddists, Hindus, Christians, etc, et al can all enjoy brotherhood within the sanctity of the lodge. Every Mason I knew was a Christian, but they did not make a big deal of it in lodge since it is not a church. Each brother was expected to attend his own church or synagoge and I have sat in Lodge with Catholics and Jews. So lets please have a bit of charity. If you believe in God and want to find out what goes on, find a Mason and ask him to help you join. You can then find out for yourself the truth and believe me, it is not what 98% of the posts I have read here are fantasizing about.

I have always heard what you state from people that I know that are Masons. I am currently in the process of discussin membership with a instructor on mine at the Univerity I attend. I think people take what they don;t know about a bit out of hand.

Timberline,

I do not doubt your experience with Freemasonry as a positive experience. Did you read Albert Pike book. It's a very big book so I haven't had a chance to read the entire thing. But I will quote something he said in his book:

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. "

- Sovereign Grand Commander Albert Pike 33°
Morals And Dogma, page 819

Now since to this day Albert Pike is a leading authority on Freemasonry. I would have to conclude that either you are lying or being misled.

Oconnection wrote

You say we are ignorant. How can a person know something when something is a closely guarded secret? Would you want us to break into your lodges and steal documents? This is what baffles me about Freemasons calling the general population ignorant. You point your finger and call us a bunch of idiots. When supposedly you have this awesome, life changing knowledge. This is being hypocritical. Everyone hates a hypocrite.


What secret, type in a general search on Freemasonry
on any search engine and sooner or later you will find any Password,grip or degree ritual for any level.



And i never said the "general public" were ignorant i said that people who write nonsense about the craft and do not check facts are ignorant.
By the way here in Scotland we have no revelance to the work of Albert Pike.

S&F

"The general public well the ignorant anyway will always convince themselves that something shady is going on (they use secret passwords they must be Devil worshipers, they dress up in funny outfits they must be Satanists, Washington was a Mason they try to dominate world politics) all absolute nonsense."

- Rosslyntemplar

That is what I was replying to. Yes you were generally calling the general public ignorant.

While yes you can view transcripts rather easily on the rituals. They are symbolic. To a person not in the know. IE the general public and a big chunk of Freemasons do NOT understand the true meaning of the rituals they are performing. You can argue otherwise. But I'm not saying this just because it may be popular belief. I'm saying this from an honest look into this topic. You can argue I'm ignorant member of the general public. But you can't say that I haven't spent many hour less nights reading, searching into this topic.

Why all the trouble? Because I believe this organization is based on conspiracies. I believe that it is used to undermine governments. I believe it's a stepping-stone into the occult world. That it's used to undermines ones religion. I believe it's used to deceive its members. It's used to control its member by its ritualistic oaths.

I think that there is a connection between Freemason and other secret societies and positions of power.

When I see in my country so many important public officials in high offices that are a part of your organization. Yes it bothers me that they belong to a society based on secrets. When this nation is suppose to be an open free society. I believe it goes against the fabric of what this nation is supposed to be about.

So call me ignorant. But this my friend it what your organization appears to be to me. Perhaps you guys should have a little bit better PR?

Long live the Craft

S&F

You mean your not going to try and answer my question. Wow surprising, cough

ok what he meant i believe was that the portion of the general public that is ignorant. "the general public, well the ignorant anway,...." also i added a comma into the quote to make it sound right.

also just because it is secret doesnt mean that there is something going on there. i am not a mason and dont care to be but i dont go around telling people that masons rule the world. mainly because ihave no idea what goes on in there and frankly i'm assuming neither do you.

Originally posted by hmmm
ok what he meant i believe was that the portion of the general public that is ignorant. "the general public, well the ignorant anway,...." also i added a comma into the quote to make it sound right.

also just because it is secret doesnt mean that there is something going on there. i am not a mason and dont care to be but i dont go around telling people that masons rule the world. mainly because ihave no idea what goes on in there and frankly i'm assuming neither do you.

Your right all the books I've spent hours and hours reading mean nothing in the sense of knowledge. Your right I'm just making all this up.

i could right a book about anything but that does not make it true. if i was the leading expert on the moon. i could right a book about aliens being on the moon and become the richest man alive.

i'm sure your not making up your beliefs in something. but just because you read something doesnt it make it how it is. i have read lots of stuff on aliens but it doesnt mean they exists?

[Edited on 12-2-2003 by hmmm]

A Few Books I've read on the topic >>

The Temple & The Lodge

Freemasonry and It's Mystic Rites

The Deadly Deception (anti-mason)

Morals And Dogma

A Handbook for the Worshipfull Master

Freemasonry and Its Etiquette

The Templar Revelation: Secret Guardians of the True Identity of Christ


Just a few of the books I've read through in the past couple of months on this topics.