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EMP survival

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posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 11:45 AM
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How would you plan to either avoid or survive the possibility of an EMP strike, from nuclear or other weapons which produce such waves, if it were to occur?

What would you do should some EMP strike occur? Do you have a way to protect your electronic devices from the EMP to begin with?

All in all, two questions. What would you do if you knew about an EMP strike before it were to happen, but could not stop it? What would you do if this EMP strike just occured, but had no forewarning?




posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 11:56 AM
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I have a heavy, tightly sealed all aluminum footlocker as my EMP vault. I keep all of my survival electronics that are not often used in it. It sits on two lengths of PVC to keep it off the floor.

If I expected an EMP event I would make sure all unnecessary electronics were unplugged and disconnected from any antennas or cables and, if possible, in a metal enclosure. Lockers, the washing machine, clothes dryer (all unplugged and detached from plumbing) can afford some protection for smaller electronics via their metal cases. If the event already occurred there really isn't much you can do. Long antennas (> 24" or so), the power grid, telephone wiring, cable & network wiring, metal plumbing, metal structural grids and the like will be prone to 'collecting' EMP and anything attached is at-risk. EMP will tend to run over the surface of conductors (much like lightning). Depending upon your distance and line-of-sight to the source of the EMP the effect will vary.

Here's a decent article on EMP:

EMP



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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jtma Ive already read it


I proposed the question to see who would do what, or if they even knew what to do. Not many realize that if a nuclear weapon went off, it would create an EMP (varies on size and altitude). This would be devistating given the possible outcomes. A good deal of people probably have no idea what to do even with forewarning. So I made the thread to shed some light on the topic.


apc

posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 12:22 PM
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I have a small sealed metal suitcase for my laptop and important related hardware (my 12gig library is on it, so I want to keep it safe). Everything else would just get unplugged from the grid. In my truck I have installed tranzorb diodes across all lines at the ECU. Since it cannot be connected to Earth-ground, the protection is minimal, but really all you can do to try and protect the computer. But I suppose with enough warning I could ground it.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 02:25 PM
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apc... diodes are useless against EMP. As are switches or ground shunts of all types. Unlike lightning and other voltage surges/spikes, EMP is more of a radio pulse. Grounding won't help. As a matter of fact it might actually hurt (since it's entirely possible EMP could travel through the earth depending upon the intensity and what's buried nearby). A Faraday cage is the only known defense. Your metal case would work as long as the contents are shielded from the metal case itself (like with foam, etc).


apc

posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Tranzorb diodes are not like zeners and are quite effective at draining away the current generated by an antenna absorbing EMP radiation (any wires longer than ~30"). There is far too much research on this to go into detail here, so a Google search for "EMP tranzorb" is recommended. Of course nothing is perfect and in a car there is no 100% protection (the metal body does pretty well anyway), but the diodes placed at the proper locations will increase the odds of survival.

Grounding does matter. Faraday cages are more effective when Earth-grounded.

And yes my laptop sits snugly in insulating foam when in the case.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 11:13 PM
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great topick I was gonna bring this up but got beat to it again.

I have communication equiptment and life suppert equiptment all sealed in seperate faraday cages in my safe room. I have redundent grounding on every single cage. Plus my safe room is in my basement so ime protected from direct hit. As for Tranzorb diodes
. I thought I had done my research very well.

Score another point for ATS survival forums. Ive got more to learn yet. Emp is honestly my biggest fear. In the cold new world that we are heading for those with working technologhy IMO will have a leg up on the rest.

grimreaper797 A very simpolistick view of the ground is nothing more then a path for the EMP pulse. Thats why you want the stuff grounded. The pulse will hit the faraday cage or mettal case follow all around the cage or case and then exit out the ground away from the item in the cage or case. So you see if the ground isnt there odds of the pulse reaching your protected item increase.

[edit on 21-12-2006 by angryamerican]



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 11:29 PM
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Very interesting subject, I had a day off 3 weeks ago where the power was being upgraded in my building. I never realized how dependent we all are on electricity until the only source of entertainment was sitting on my patio with a book for 7 hours. It definitely made me think how I would respond in a similar emergency scenario.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:31 AM
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It's just the power going out.

I wanted to share an experience I had of a real, major urban power loss situation and which may relate to any ideas on how to prepare for an EMP emergency in your urban area:

I was in Manhattan a few years back when the power went out for a couple days. I was living in Brooklyn but stranded in Manhattan. I was at a Manhattan gym where I worked out when the electricty suddenly shut off in the late afteroon. Rumors started to fly there was possibly a terrorist attack.

1. I had very little cash on me that day and all the ATMs were down. I had nothing valuable on me to barter. Debit/credit cards could not be accepted. So basically I was broke and far from home.
2. The $10 I had on me was quickly spent on 2 $4 small bottles of water (vendors jacked up prices). That was the smartest thing I did because they quickly sold out of water and I would have been without water for the next 6+ hours in the heat.
3. I could not call anybody because cell phone repeaters were not working.
4. I could not go home right away because the metro (subway) was not working and buses were not running. In fact one train was stuck in the tunnel and had to evacuated in the dark, after the passengers were told to wait for 2 hours in the dark.
5. The bridges (I think all or at least several) were closed to vehicle traffic so you could not leave the island by vehicle/taxi.
6. Sun was going down and I didn't have a flashlight. No streetlights were working. It was getting dark. Nobody had flashlights. Some of the bridge/tunnel crowd was going to stick it out overnight on the streets of Manhattan.
7. All masses of people to Brooklyn were directed like sheep to the Williamsburg and Brooklyn bridges. That was a long walk because I started north of Union Square. The bridges were literally wall to wall packed with crowds. Mostly it was orderly but some people were running through the crowd as if in panic mode.
8. Once in Brooklyn it was dark. Many of us had to walk through crime-riddled low income projects-type areas in pitch black night which lay between the river and my East Williamsburg apartment (some people lived even further inland). Believe me, these are some of the most dangerous areas of New York to walk around where people are murdered/robbed all the time. I never thought I'd have to walk through them because I take the train. I stuck with some other people in a group but still had about 10 blocks of solo walking through the worst areas. I was wondering if this was about to turn into the movie the Warriors.
9. Refigerated foods were spoiling and being thrown away or sold on the sidewalk. (as well as my own food would have to be thrown out)
10. At my apartment the electricity and water was not running for two days. I quickly broke into the liquor cabinet
I believe there were some other plumbing problems, like the toilets weren't working.
11. And the only good news: the major Boars Head meats distributor in our neighborhood gave away cases upon cases of hot dogs and sausages which could not be refigerated. We had a huge neighborhood BBQ in the dark with hundreds of people.

12. As a side note, that night I was told that our exact neighborhood 10 block radius was ground zero for some of the worst riots ever in Brooklyn during a power blackout in the 1970s.

A day or two later I told my family in another state about how big of a deal it was the power was out! I was safe and not to worry.

They didn't even seem to care or notice.

Like, hey, it's just the power going out.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:01 AM
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I'm not loving the grounding argument. My understanding of EMP is that it is an electromagentic wave event. It has no potential in and of itself. It can, however, induce a charge in a metal object that it passes over. I always thought transorb diodes (which actually are a type of zener) were designed to clamp (and shunt) transient voltages. The fear about high-level EMP is that it works like an RFID transmitter. The EMP pulse (which could be enormous with a high-altitude burst) will induce current in the internal circuits themselves thereby frying the internal components.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
I'm not loving the grounding argument. My understanding of EMP is that it is an electromagentic wave event. It has no potential in and of itself. It can, however, induce a charge in a metal object that it passes over. I always thought transorb diodes (which actually are a type of zener) were designed to clamp (and shunt) transient voltages. The fear about high-level EMP is that it works like an RFID transmitter. The EMP pulse (which could be enormous with a high-altitude burst) will induce current in the internal circuits themselves thereby frying the internal components.


Actually it won't. Current flows because there is an imbalance. If a device is totally isolated from ground the induced current will be equal through out the entire system. Aircraft survive lightning strikes because all of their components are connected. There are actually wires joining different sections of the aircraft togather to insure this. This is called "bonding". It is only when these wires break that aircraft suffer damage from lightning. This can induce arcing between the bonded and unbonded sections.

As far as your shielded boxes and Faraday cages are concerned, are they grounded? They won't work if they are not. The idea behind them is to absorb the current generated by the pulse and carry it to ground away from what they are protecting.

I wouldn't put too much effort into protecting electronics anyway. I'd learn how to live without them. If there ever is an EMP event, the local infrastructure isn't going to survive anyway. Batteries and portable generators won't last forever.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499
As far as your shielded boxes and Faraday cages are concerned, are they grounded?


Not sure who the question is going to but if its me I have Each item in its own faraday cage and each cage has redundt grounds


I wouldn't put too much effort into protecting electronics anyway. I'd learn how to live without them. If there ever is an EMP event, the local infrastructure isn't going to survive anyway. Batteries and portable generators won't last forever.


You are correct in the long term only. In the short term IMO those with working technology will be better off then those without. nispecially if the crisis is a temporay one. One of the things I guard with my life is my 10M ham radio wich also covers the CB bands in the U.S. Communication is king in a short term nuclear attack or a non nuclear EMP attack.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by angryamerican]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by angryamerican
One of the things I guard with my life is my 10M ham radio wich also covers the CB bands in the U.S. Communication is king in a short term nuclear attack or a non nuclear EMP attack.


I'm with you, angry. After an infrastructure-stomping event one of the most precious commodities is going to be accurate intelligence. You can't know whether to stay, go or where to go unless you know what's going on 'out there'. I've assembled a range of portable comm gear that covers from LF up to the GHz band. I'm equipped to transmit on a good portion of that. I want to be able to monitor local and regional frequencies as well as interntaional broadcasting in case the SHTF. And of course, I have EMP storage for all of it.


apc

posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
I'm not loving the grounding argument. My understanding of EMP is that it is an electromagentic wave event. It has no potential in and of itself. It can, however, induce a charge in a metal object that it passes over. I always thought transorb diodes (which actually are a type of zener) were designed to clamp (and shunt) transient voltages. The fear about high-level EMP is that it works like an RFID transmitter. The EMP pulse (which could be enormous with a high-altitude burst) will induce current in the internal circuits themselves thereby frying the internal components.


Actually most circuitry and ICs will be not be affected directly. The pathways are too short to catch any significant portion of the waveform. Current is induced in wiring that is of sufficient length to act as an antenna. Placing the diodes at the wiring near the component will (hopefully) allow the current to drain before doing any damage.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by apc]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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As for what to do after the fact, it's called degaussing.

You will need to get yourself some means of electrical generation, in this case a hand cranked AC generator. You will also need alot of thin copper wire.

Google up how to coil wire to degauss electronics. We do it regularly in robotics, as EM interference often plays with our equipment.

The hand cranked AC generator will still generate a charge, it's not a complicated piece of electrical equipment, and EMP's are rather useless to stop them. Use the generator to power your degaussing coil. Preferrably use it first on your most vital electronic equipment. Once done, move onto the next.

Warning though, normal degaussing takes hours, so you may want to practice cranking that generator, you'll be at it for a while.

Most will ask, but Johnsky, to hand crank your household AC current would require too much for my poor little arm... no, I'm not talking about household AC current, just so long as the current is alternating. You can do this with an oscillator and a DC generator too, if you want.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by johnsky]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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I was wondering, like if you had say a laptop or something, if you threw it up in the air at the exact right time, would you be able to save it, since the emp has is fine. Would it be the same concept as like "monkeybarring" across powerlines?



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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No. Taking an object away from ground during an EMP will not save it. The EMP won't be able to use the ground as an antenna into the laptop, but the laptop will still be hit.

Basically think of it this way. If you take a radio, and throw it up in the air while it's on, will it still recieve radio signals while it's in the air? Yes.
If you shield that radio from transmissions, then it won't get hit. Which is where the idea of the metal box comes from.

Think of all electronics as a radio, and think of the EMP as a radio broadcasting tower. Thats probably the best analogy I can think of.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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I read the above mentioned article because something was bugging me. I found this in it.


Protecting electrical equipment is simple if it can be unplugged from AC outlets, phone systems, or long antennas.


The reason this is significant is i've always been of the understanding that an EMP will only effect a live circuit. If the circuit has no juice flowing thru it, an EMP will not effect it.

Remember the movie where John Travolta tried to steal some nukes and one was set off underground. Just as he was about to be captured he told the driver to turn off the jeep, the nuke went off and the EMP took out the helicopter gunship, he got back in the jeep and started it and drove off. The jeep was not effected because it was not running at the time. ( I know, it was a movie, but this was just to illustrate my point.)

If your electronics are not turned on at the time, they will be safe. If they are on, their toast.

I admit my knowledge on the subject is limited, thats why i'm here, I want to learn.

Am I wrong about this?

[edit on 22-12-2006 by mrwupy]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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Since no one has added the report to Congress on EMP, I'll toss in a link. www.globalsecurity.org... You'll notice that some of the potential threats are becoming realities as we speak.

I'm with JIMC5499, the infrastructure will be GONE. Any electronic usage will be temporary at best. And considering that the chaos will be at it's most intense shortly after the intial attack, I would much rather be securing my perimeter, rounding up portable gear, and planning possible contingencies. The only electronic I need is my solar/wind up radio. Let the old lady listen to it while I run around doing damage control.

However, even if I don't have the radio, I've planned ahead by being in an area that will facilitate an easy defense against people who will mostly be scavenging.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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The following website may provide some useful information.

textfiles.com...

I live 30 min. from a nuclear facility and it is of great concern because in asking and inquiring about it there is very little info. They recently installed a warning system for my area which raised my eyebrows, and all they said was it would probably be best to shelter in place.

Equipment is one thing, but, what about the body and the air, any suggestions?



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