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Ice Hockey: Coyotes at center of gambling ring

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TRD

posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Wayne Gretzky's wife and about a half-dozen NHL players placed bets -- but not on hockey -- with a nationwide sports gambling ring financed by Phoenix Coyotes assistant coach Rick Tocchet, authorities said Tuesday. Gretzky, hockey's greatest player, is in his first season coaching the Coyotes and is a part-owner of the team.

SportingNews




posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 12:31 AM
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Dear All,

What I just heard on the 11PM to Midnight (Pacific Time) edition of ESPN's SportsCenter was that Tocchet and even Gretzky's wife may have provided info on the physical conditions of their players to gambling interests. That's just one of several allegations, but it's the big one... the one that makes me really sick.

If Gretzsky's wife was doing it, one would have to be a person of extraordinary naivete to suppose Gretzky's hands were totally clean. And if there is one other person is North American men's team sports history whose stats were unfathomably, blow-out-the-computer, outrageously awesome, along with Babe Ruth and Wilt Chamberlain, it's Wayne Gretzky. Plus, I have ALWAYS thought he was one hell of a great guy: softspoken, sincere, warm, and a 100% team player.

So I really, really, REALLY don't want these allegations to be true. I don't care about Tocchet, and if he's guilty, fine and f--- him, but if Gretzky's been knowingly involved in this sort of thing, it will be as though Ruth was knowingly involved in the 1919 Series fix, or as if he deliberately got thrown out trying to steal second, with Meusel at the plate as the winning run, to end the 1926 World Series against the Cards.

I couldn't take that. And I would HATE to have to take this.

Lord, don't let it be true. Please.


B.H.N.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by BaseballHistoryNut
Dear All,

So I really, really, REALLY don't want these allegations to be true. I don't care about Tocchet, and if he's guilty, fine and f--- him, but if Gretzky's been knowingly involved in this sort of thing, it will be as though Ruth was knowingly involved in the 1919 Series fix, or as if he deliberately got thrown out trying to steal second, with Meusel at the plate as the winning run, to end the 1926 World Series against the Cards. Lord, don't let it be true. Please.


What does your gut tell you? My gut tells me Gretzsky is g-u-i-l-t-y. Now I'm not saying it isn't heartbreaking or that he isn't a hell of a guy...I'm just saying...it doesn't look good my friend.

The whole slap shot thing incovered 1000 bets being processed to the tune of nearly $2mil, and among the betters you have Gretzsky's partner in sports arrested as heading up the ring, and his paterner in life, his wife caught with her hand in the cookie jar...personally I don't think this is a matter of her having her hand in the jar, I think she is MUCH DEEPER into this with her partner...her and Waynes partner in crime-Tocchet.

Gretzy seems to be skating on thin ice with me right...playing innocent that he doesn't know what his wife and partner are up to in this area. Not that I blame him, it's not like he's going to want to jump in the fire...but SPARE ME the "I dunno....I'll let my wife spek for herself (as my lawyer said to)"

As for the guilty as charges and those questioned (Gretzsky's wifey and Tocchet)...their biggest clame to near innocence is that they didn't bet on hockey?!?!...oh WTEverlovingF does that show? it DIRTY people!

Most of the gamblers were pro athelets and those in the entertainment business...and um...what exactly does Gretzsky's beloved wife do...oh yeah...thats right...she's an ACTRESS!!!!! Currently in Cali too....

SO it is SICKENING to know what has been uncovered...bets on pro and college games by pro atheletes and entertainment types...

don't they already have enough money and power? Are they bored...did it for the excitement? Just enough to make one loose faith entirely...

Gretzsky's wife was possibly passing on injured player info etc...you KNOW it's been tit for a tat...watch and scratch each others back in the whole ring...but yeah, I'm sure no one bet on their own affiliated sport...

or shaved points...

or traded injured lists

yeah...ok...I believe..

afterall they are all the good guys...

they are our heroes...

well...not mine...

oh and Gretsky himself...well his innocence is backed up by the fact he does NOT gamble AT ALL...well except for his trips to Las Vegas...


Yeah...and I do not smoke...except when I drink -what-evah!

[Edited on 2/8/06 by think2much]


TRD

posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 11:54 AM
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Don't know that much about the Gretzsky's, but if his wife is involved it doesn't look that great for him. Taking the sport aspect aside, usually a man will come home from his job and talk to his wife about the day, things that have happened ect and generaly have a moan about it as he can't do it at work. So he might have passed on info unknowingly but who knows...



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 01:41 PM
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I don't really care about their betting on OTHER sports, as long as they did so in moderation and didn't get buried in the kind of debt where you owe your, um, creditor (the mob) a huge amount of money. But sports betting tends to do that to one (said I, knowingly), and THAT is when you will do just about anything to get out of the debt--like the things Think2Much lists.

In other words, I'm not the morals police, and although there are good reasons for not allowing people in their position to bet on sports (or bet more than a certain amount on ANYTHING), the big things here are two fold:

(1) Did they bet on hockey, which so far I've heard nothing about; and

(2) Did they do anything for gambling interests on hockey games, like what I heard alleged last night: provide info on who could play and who couldn't? That is a terrible allegation, and if Wayne Gretzky is guilty of involvement in that, he's done something worse than ANYTHING we know of to date in the slimy, sordid, punk world of Pete Rose.

B.H.N.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 06:31 AM
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As of yet nothing's been uncovered about betting on hockey. Betting on other sport's, no problem. Everybody does it.

As for info passed on what players are hurt and what players aren't, well i'm from near Toronto and all you have to do is pick up a newspaper.

Hockey injuries don't mean squat. ie- Bobby Baun scoring a Stanley Cup winning goal on a broken foot. There are 18 players on a team, and ton's of skilled players waiting to fill their spots. The loss of one or two star players does not mean the team will lose. Ask anyone who's played the Leafs in the play-offs in the last 5 years.

Now, as for Janet. Gretzky can't be held responsible for his wife's actions. The guy must have been on the road about 40% of the time while he was playing in LA. Even more after he went to St.Louis and New York, not to mention being the biggest name in hockey with all the responsibilities that entails. No way he know's what his wife is up to 100% of the time.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:54 AM
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Karlsberg,

I will concede that Gretzky couldn't possibly know everything that his wife is doing all of the time. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that a hockey injury means squat. (I wouldn't know, hockey has never been my favorite)

The allegations include NHL players. Where that gets dangerous is, if a player has a debt to Tocchet or whoever they could give less than their best to help get caught up. Not saying that is what happened, it's just a possibily now. But come on man, Gretzky knew what was up. He may not have been involved (that's stretching it) but he certainly knew.

Tocchet is Gretzky's best friend. You don't have any trouble believing Wayne knew nothing about something so significant in the lives of two people very close to him? Well I do and like others have expressed it is a sad day. Like I said hockey has never been my favorite but it's Wayne Gretzky. I don't know much about hockey but I appreciate a GREAT in any field.


iaclonz



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 10:04 AM
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Man... I just don't know what to make of this. I grew up playing ice hockey. I could skate before I could walk.. I swear. Gretzky was my lifelong hero and to hear something like this makes my cringe. It sounds to me like he is guilty of something.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:13 PM
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Phoenix Coyotes coach Wayne Gretzky knew about a gambling ring involving his wife and assistant coach Rick Tocchet, sources who cited state wiretaps told the Newark Star-Ledger and The Associated Press.


Here is the full story, let me warn you if you are already disgusted be ready for your stomach to turn.

sports.espn.go.com...



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 10:41 PM
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In numerous past posts, I have said Babe Ruth's only rival in men's team sports history was Wilt. I said that because: (1) I don't know enough about hockey to know how team-dependent stats are; and (2) Gretzky did a lot better when he had all those tremendous teammates in Edmonton, winning titles by the truckload.

But on sheer stats, it's my understanding he is comparable to Ruth and Wilt for absolutely preposterous domination. I have to take the word of other people for that, and it's mindblowing to contemplate, because what Ruth did is so unreal (for starters, 3 different seasons with more HR's than any other American League TEAM!), and so are 100 points in 1 game, 55 rebounds in 1 game, and 50 points per game for a full season.

And Gretzky has always seemed to exude genuine class and kindness, not just the sort of polish that Joe Montana always struck me as exuding. It seems impossible Gretzky would tie himself up with something really ugly, you know? Or that he would be such a big bettor that he inevitably--and it IS inevitable--immersed himself in debt betting on sports.

Now, I know a LOT about sports gambling. And the rationalizations one can work through are amazing. I just hope to god Gretzky didn't get so buried on football (the real killer sport, almost made to be bet on, as Barkley has said) that he lost all sense of proportion. I really don't give a damn if he bet on hoops, football and baseball, nor if he lost a pile of money doing so.

But this guy is hockey's Babe Ruth, and that is no exaggeration. It will tear many millions of people apart if he got seriously dirty over this, giving out injury info, or benching key players to lose games, or whatever.

I don't have Lost Sailor's degree of personal emotional investment in this, obviously, but for the sake of the sport and for the sake of the many millions who share Lost Sailor's feelings, I hope like hell Gretzky didn't have ANYTHING hockey-related to do with "gambling interests." And if he did, I hope like hell it was like Paul Hornung's stupidity in the NFL, when he bet on his games, but always ON his team, never against it. (Of course, he was a player, not a coach.)

B.H.N.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 06:21 AM
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The only crime so far is that the government hasn't gotten her piece of the pie. Gretzky is innocent untill proven guilty. We'll have to wait and see what "operation slapshot" uncovers.

Boy, I run a hockey pool at work, do you think I should be arrested? Sure people are only betting 5 bucks a week, but it's exponential. NHLers make more money than truck drivers.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 02:10 PM
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Karlsberg, in a criminal court, you are correct that he's innocent until proven guilty, and indeed until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And my post was conditionally worded.

You're right. All that's known to date is something about Gretzky's voice on a wiretap, and as usual the authorities are releasing just enough info to give the public the slant they want us to have.

All my post was intended to convey--and I'll say it again--is that this guy is the Babe Ruth of hockey (no exaggeration), the idol of tens of millions, and I hope to hell he's not into anything dirty. Now, BOTH Willie Mays and Michael Jordan were into gambling, but it wasn't anything dirty. From what I've heard so far, neither was this--at least, not as far as Mr. and Ms. Gretzky were concerned.

I just hope like hell it stays that way. And I take it you do, too.

Baseball History Nut



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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And no, of course you shouldn't be busted. COPS bet on much bigger pools than those. Hell, so do deputy attorneys general I know.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Karlsberg
The only crime so far is that the government hasn't gotten her piece of the pie. Gretzky is innocent untill proven guilty. We'll have to wait and see what "operation slapshot" uncovers.

Boy, I run a hockey pool at work, do you think I should be arrested? Sure people are only betting 5 bucks a week, but it's exponential. NHLers make more money than truck drivers.


Yeah, but what you have to realize here is the bigger picture...it's not about your average joe gambling...and not just about a pro athlete gambling either...

You are talking about a gambling ring that specifically catered to pro atheletes and the entertainment industry...now you are talking about Tocchet , Gretzsky's best friend and partner...and Gretzsky's wife an actress in the entertaining biz..

So you've got two people in their respective field of sports and entertainment indicated in a gambling ring catering to pro athletes and entertainment people...powerful/influential and wealthy people...see the bigger problem?

So, it isn't just did Gretsky gamble...did he bet on Hockey? He can claim innocent all he wants, about every aspect, I find it hard to believe his hands are clean in it all.

...and considering I used to say "Call me Gretsky" (well, just when I was "skating" by slacking off at work) I am just appalled-he is probably my favorite hockey player of all time....that is also what I call my nephew, little rink-rat hockey playin fool...my little Gretsky...

The implications are easy to see though, yep, besides the occasional gambler over his head "taking a fall" so to speak for the bookie to relieve a debt... there is just an insider trading feel to it all.

A bunch of people capable if not pulling the strings, at least having a foreknowledge and influence when necessary and it just stinks to high heaven...

a pro hockey player betting on a football game...who GAF? Not me...

But a sports gambling ring headed up by, and comprised of/catering to pro athletes and weatlthy influencial entertainment types...

now that is ugly



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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Like I said, we'll have to wait and see till all the facts come out. I still believe in Gretzky. This is something I got of NHL.com.

PHOENIX (AP) - Text of a statement by Wayne Gretzky following the Phoenix Coyotes hockey game Thursday night:

"Well, before I start first of all I want to say that first and foremost I'm not going anywhere. I am still going to coach the Phoenix Coyotes. I did nothing wrong, or nothing that has to do with anything along the lines of betting; that never happened.

"I'm going to Italy on Sunday to be with Team Canada and be a part of the Olympic games. "Thirdly, lastly, I'm going to say it one more time, like I said the other night; I didn't bet, didn't happen, not gonna happen, hasn't happened, it's not something that I have done.

"So in saying all that I appreciate everyone's support; a lot of great friends that have said a lot of nice things. I've felt like the last three days I've defended myself over something that absolutely, unequivocally, I was not involved with.

"In saying all that I hope you appreciate that the last three days have been horrible. I'm just too tired mentally and physically to talk anymore about it. There is nothing for me to talk about. And if you have any questions for people that are involved, contact them.

"Thank you."



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by Karlsberg
Like I said, we'll have to wait and see till all the facts come out. I still believe in Gretzky.


I WANT to believe Gretsky, but I don't think we'll ever know if there is no hard evidence...it's just the implications that bother me in light of the known facts. I mean I hate to sound cynical, it's just...what would you expect him to say/do even if he was guilty but had been smart enough to cover his ass and/or use his wife in it all, etc?

But I have to say I *FEEL* empathetic and persuaded towards his innocence, and can *hear* it in those words...

But yeah, we'll see what happens...and hope for the best...



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 07:02 AM
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You gotta wonder at the timing of this though... right before the Olympics. Makes you go hmmm...

Anothing thing, Wayne isn't ins't involved in the investigation just his Wife and the only people who are linking this to him are Journalists and Pundits. The ONLY link he has to this is by Marriage so he isn't presumed to be Innocent before being proven guilty as he ain't being arraigned as of yet, and I don't think he will. Once a boyscout always a boyscout IMO which is why I never liked him. Too sqeeky clean for my taste


[Edited on 2/11/06 by sardion2000]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
You gotta wonder at the timing of this though... right before the Olympics. Makes you go hmmm...(snip)



Well since we're not on a conspiracy board I'll let that slide by me...or should I say skate
(I don't see it)



(cont'd) Anothing thing, Wayne isn't ins't involved in the investigation just his Wife and the only people who are linking this to him are Journalists and Pundits. The ONLY link he has to this is by Marriage


Um...no...I beg to differ here...his wife is CLEARLY a link, but there is also Tocchet his best friend and partner-the head of the ring! A... and the fact he is a pro-athelete...and affiliated with the two ring leards it appears (if his wife isn't handling the entertainment side and only betting persoanlly hereself- I'd be surprised)

Either way, I see it like this: If Gretzsky is INNOCENT-never bet on hockey...didn't know what his wife and best friend and parnter were doing...etc...and truly is the great boy scout we all know and love...

then the two closets peole in his life were pulling something huge over on him big time behind his back

now that makes me go Hmmmmmmm for sure.

if thats true...he needs to cut ties IMHO

...but I'm sure they will find a way to make her seem less guilty of more than a few bets...and Tocchet will be found to be doing nothing too morally wrong and slapeped on the wrist legally...

and she will beg Gretzsy and explain how she got lonely in the past...drawing their relationship weak...lost her head with Tocchet, got caught up in the high of gambling too.. blah blah blah...forgive me....blah blah blah...

And of course the boy scout will give her another chance to burn down his teepee

but I'm kind of cynical about stuff...especially huge sports gambling rings involving pro athletes... in addition to things spouses and best friends do behind good people's backs:angry-smiley-034:


TRD

posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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I don't see nothing wrong in looking at the 'conspiracy' side of it, its still sports. But sometimes things like this happen maybe to divert away from other things that are happening at the time, as sports is huge around the world and what alot of people follow. I always say things happen for a reason, wether that is a legitiment one or not is a different matter.



posted on Feb, 13 2006 @ 07:28 AM
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The media around here is starting to say this gambling thing is good for team Canada. We Canucks might over analyze hockey a bit. This business has taken the focus off the team and put it squarely on the Great One. Who better to face all the media pressure? It's been a tough year for the Gretzky's with his Mom dying and all, and he's been nothing but classy.




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