Creeping back? Anti-Semitism, page 1

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Topic started on 27-11-2003 @ 06:34 AM by John Nada

Here's a great article by the BBC about the accusations that Anti-Semitism is creeping back. It offers many different peoples persepectives, some right and some badly wrong.

Israel's prime minister says anti-Semitism is rising in Europe, citing attacks on Jews and Jewish interests. His remarks followed an EU poll which showed many believe Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.
Is anti-Semitism really increasing? Is hostility towards Israeli policy in the Middle East becoming anti-Jewish? BBC News Online asked 12 experts on Jewish affairs from Europe and Israel to reflect on the charge.

Check it out here: news.bbc.co.uk...

I'm absolutely sick to death of the fact that every time Israel is criticised, it must be anti-semitism. It is over the top and they are victimizing themselves, when are people going to realise if you act like a victim people will walk all over you.
Yes, I am aware that there are still real jew haters out there, but should people live in fear of being labelled racist if you actually don't agree with them. What a load of bollocks! Check this # out:

"When we get to a point when it is becoming acceptable in many places in Europe and even in mainstream opinion to label Israel as a Nazi state, or, in more diplomatic language, an apartheid state, the Israeli citizen feels that their very right to exist in any form, whether politically or as a nation, is being challenged."
Robert Wistrich, director of the Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Anti-Semitism in Jerusalem

What the #? So by that rationality because I don't agree with Dubya and his bull# government I must be anti-American, right? I must hate all those #ing Americans, I wish they would all burn, right? WRONG!!!
Check this guy out, he's saying that because alot of the EU are criticizing Israel it must be a rise in Anti-semitism, and that there very existence is in danger, what a #ing ego! Did you ever think asshole that just maybe the EU doesn't like the way your right-wing government conducts themselves? No it couldn't just be that could it? What a tool.

Finally here's someone who speaks sense:

"The right-wing in Israel describes every criticism of the country as a form of anti-Semitism. It is very convenient for the present government - which is the most right-wing in Israel's history and headed by a prime minister who has not taken the smallest initiative in the direction of a diplomatic effort in the peace process - to blame everything on anti-Semitism.

Any attempt to make the current government and its very questionable policies invincible to legitimate criticism should be wholly rejected
This way, they try to write off any criticism of their own policies."
Yaron Ezrahi, professor of political science at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem

Surely it couldn't just be that could it? Noooooo we must just be Nazis.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED, DON'T CRITICISE ISRAEL!!!
IF YOU DO YOU ARE RACIST SCUM!!!

[Edited on 27-11-2003 by John Nada]

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 08:43 AM by earthtone

Yes, I have found that by criticising Isreal you are suddenly deedmed an 'anti-semitist'. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to criticise Isreal. I have no problem with Jewish people whatsoever, I have a Jewish friend. Sharon is a fascist, war criminal and I'm not going to hide my opinion on that even if people say I'm being racist because I'm not.

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 08:55 AM by Thomas Crowne

Maybe if you'd equal out your time by criticizing those who are bent on destroying Israel you wouldn't sound anti-Semitic.

You have a Jewinsh friend, even. If you even had a clue how condescending that sounds!

That'd be like me saying, "I ain't prejudiced! Why, I got lots of black friends!"

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 09:01 AM by John Nada

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You have a Jewinsh friend, even. If you even had a clue how condescending that sounds!

That'd be like me saying, "I ain't prejudiced! Why, I got lots of black friends!"

I've got agree with you there TC, the rest you said is just # though. It's more side stepping, a way of not addressing their own problems. Address this issue instead.

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 09:12 AM by Thomas Crowne

Well, now that we know that you can cuss, try and clarify what you mean. I have no idea with what you agree and don't.

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 09:32 AM by John Nada

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Well, now that we know that you can cuss, try and clarify what you mean. I have no idea with what you agree and don't.

I quoted what I was referring to first, hence your quote being edited.
What I said after was referring to the rest of your post I didn't quote. Clear?
If I criticised the government of any other country, would they call me anti-(insert country or race here)? I kind of doubt it. If you criticise the Israel government you are doing just that and nothing more, it is not anti-semitism. They are as crooked as every other government on the planet and I don't think it's right that they can try and hide it by playing the race card. I don't know TC, your first post seemed to imply that I have a complex about being labelled anti-semitic, well you couldn't be more wrong. I am just angry that a government thinks it can hide it's crookedness by hiding behind the race of it's people, which is just scum.

I couldn't give a # if you are jewish, black, green, blue, dis-figured or a space alien, if you however are doing no good I will pull you on it, and I don't appreciate having bull# like anti- whatever thrown back in my face.

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 09:39 AM by Thomas Crowne

Sorry, I just glanced up and figured it was the total post. My bad.

I get sick of people referring to Israel as a danger, Shoron as a terrorist, while totally ignoring the real atrocities commited toward them by those around them. That is not crap, and you know it.

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 10:02 AM by earthtone

You have a Jewinsh friend, even. If you even had a clue how condescending that sounds!

Hey I was merely pointing out that I had no problems with Jewish people even though I have been called an Anit-semitist. I know it sounded stupid but I was just telling the truth.

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 10:04 AM by John Nada

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sorry, I just glanced up and figured it was the total post. My bad.

I get sick of people referring to Israel as a danger, Shoron as a terrorist, while totally ignoring the real atrocities commited toward them by those around them. That is not crap, and you know it.

Are you not reading anything I'm saying? I'm not discussing the situation with Iraq etc.
I am talking about the fact that a corrupt government (and YOU know it is) can use the religion of it's people as a shield to cover their dirty tracks. "Anti-Semetic!"? No it's #ing not. That is the issue here, not the usual "Who did what to whom".

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 12:07 PM by Mycroft

Originally posted by John Nada
Are you not reading anything I'm saying? I'm not discussing the situation with Iraq etc.
I am talking about the fact that a corrupt government (and YOU know it is) can use the religion of it's people as a shield to cover their dirty tracks. "Anti-Semetic!"? No it's #ing not. That is the issue here, not the usual "Who did what to whom".

There are a number of reasons Israel receives a disproportionate amount of criticism. Let me list some of them:

1) Anti-Semitism. Let�s be honest, it happens. If you check out white supremacist websites and holocaust revisionist sites, they take special pains to criticize Israel and find new and unique ways to link their cause to other more legitimate causes. Not all anti-Semites are stupid, they realize that outright Jew-bashing gets them dismissed quickly, but the same Jew-bashing disguised as political criticism can get an audience.

2) Ultra-liberalism. Moral relativists who can�t distinguish between perpetuators of atrocities and those that struggle against them, and who equate all violence from a defensive military action to a terrorist suicide-bomber.

3) The ignorant and shallow. People who have heard an argument made by one of the first two groups and have latched onto it without taking the time to research the issues and learn the truth. Many people want to take a stand against what they perceive to be injustice, but don�t want to make the effort to learn about complex issues and actually contribute to solutions.

4) Legitimate political critics. Israel is a free democratic society, and like all such societies it has its share of critics from within and without. You can distinguish this group from the first three in several ways: They don�t use inflammatory rhetoric, comparing Israel to Nazi Germany or apartheid. They recognize Israel�s need for self-defense, even if they disagree with specific measures. They don�t try to deligitimize the very existence of Israel, nor do they call for policies that would threaten her existence. They include with their criticism positive suggestions for change, rather than just blind criticisms.

I personally spend a lot of my time arguing with the first three groups, but I don�t waste my time worrying about which category they fall into. Anti-Semites never self-identify as anti-Semites (with rare exceptions), ultra-liberals never understand that their views are extreme and irrational, and the ignorant and shallow certainly don�t become any less ignorant and shallow once you point out their shortcomings. For me it is enough to distinguish truth from propaganda and fair from unfair.

reply posted on 27-11-2003 @ 04:13 PM by Ocelot

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I get sick of people referring to Israel as a danger, Shoron as a terrorist, while totally ignoring the real atrocities commited toward them by those around them. That is not crap, and you know it.

Oh so Israel has no fault in this at all? I mean the IDF has been demolishing towns driving thousands of palestinians out of their homes and killing hundreds of them and when the Palestinians retaliate with the only methods they have at their disposal which is using crude home made bombs that makes the terrorists?

It pisses me off every time somebody criticizes Israel they play the "Anti-Semite card" they have been using ever since the holocaust. Like somehow they should be treated differently because sadly they were the victims of a horrible event in history that happened over 50 years ago. People have been killed all trough history. And just to set the record straight over 20 million russians died in WW2. You dont see the russians claiming discrimination. How about the millions of chinese the japanese killed? You dont hear them claiming special treatment or discrimonation.

There is an abovious double standard here that the media helps fuel. How come when an attack against Israel happens its in the news that week 24/7 but when the Israelis destroy a whole town and kill hundreds of people it barely makes a blip in the news?

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