Baseball: Shave the Fish....

And would you PLEASE quit with your ludicrous analogy between taking pills that keep you awake and/or give you energy, and using cr@p which turns you into Godzilla? NOBODY at this site buys that analogy, and for the very good reason it's a preposterous one.

"You cheated on an exam in 8th grade and I embezzled $600,000 from my corporate employer. We're both cheats."

That is how ridiculous it sounds. And not just to me.

BHN

BHN

I think its a good idea to smarten up a bit, boost team morale and all that..

And... Even i know Bonds is a cheat and i dont follow baseball that much.

Originally posted by BaseballHistoryNut
And would you PLEASE quit with your ludicrous analogy between taking pills that keep you awake and/or give you energy, and using cr@p which turns you into Godzilla? NOBODY at this site buys that analogy, and for the very good reason it's a preposterous one.

"You cheated on an exam in 8th grade and I embezzled $600,000 from my corporate employer. We're both cheats."

That is how ridiculous it sounds. And not just to me.

BHN

BHN

Cheating is cheating. Your example is ridiculous. A hand slap for cheating on a test, versus prison time. No one knows how much less Mays, Aaron, Maris, Stargell would have done, had they played tired everyday. Hundreds took roids, many have been suspended. 99% of them didn't hit 50 hrs. Bonds is going to the HOF, plain and simple. Some voters won't vote for him, but he's going in, to join the hundreds of other cheats in there. And i'm not the only person sharing my views. I have seen some HOF voters say they won't hold it against him.

No one here can really dispute that he is deserving of Cooperstown. He will go in first ballot almost certainly. But what sux is that he has not had to pay for it at all.(his reputation was already not the greatest) Here I go again but Pete Rose surely PAID for "cheating", which I don't think he ever did. This is a comparison we can make because if anything it is unfair for Rose, considering he only did things that could have hurt his team.

Other than you, I am the ONLY person I know who thinks Bonds belongs in the Hall of Fame. That's a fact. The difference is, I would take everything from the day he hit that 493-foot home run off of Seth Etherton (6/7/00)--the first OBVIOUSLY phony, steroid-produced home run--and erase it. I mean, what can one say? In his whole career to that point, Bonds had hit only 3 balls over 450 feet, and all three were wind-aided. This one wasn't, and he's since hit THIRTY more. In law, one would say "res ipsa loquitur," which means "the thing speaks for itself"--all too eloquently.

As I've said before (until I'm getting tired of having to say it), you have to believe in the Easter Bunny to believe something like that isn't BIG-TIME cheating. Your comparison to greenies is ludicrous. I experienced Maris's season the first time, and have watched film clips of it since, and to compare pep pills to making oneself into Godzilla is either: (a) to have my ex-wife's powers of logic; or (b) to want desperately and passionately to redeem Bonds' feats because one admires him as a hero.

Either way, it's a no-go. The guy's a flagrant, brazen, undeniable cheat.... The difference between Bonds on the one hand, and McGwire and Sosa on the other, is that since Bonds was an enormously better player to begin with, the Godzilla stuff has helped him more than it the others.

I know it's nice to believe once is seeing all these wondrous, Babe Ruth seasons--as if 1920, 1921, 1923 and 1927 are happening all over again. But Bonds never came within 100 miles of this stuff until he was nearly 36 (an age when everyone else falls apart), and this b.s. is for people who believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

The difference between me and most people I know is I realize that if you take everything Bonds did prior to the Etherton HR, he rates ahead of Rickey Henderson, Yaz and Goose Goslin (whom James badly underrates), and behind only Ted Williams and Stan Musial, among all left fielders in MLB history. And I would put him in the HOF on his first year of eligibility, despite all these years of cheating.

Virtually everyone else I know would BAN him from the Hall. I think that's unfair, because just as the long-distance HR evidence nails him cold from mid-2000 on, it pretty well exonerates him before that, and he'd already had one hell of a career before the Etherton HR--one of the Top 20 ever.

I think everyone can see which of us is striving to be fair-minded and rational about this, despite his visceral feelings about Bonds, and which one of us is being irrational and gratuitously nasty, having gone out of his way to pick today's squabble on a thread that had nothing at all to do with this.

Oh, well. It's nice to know Bonds will have one person at his funeral. Too bad you're not an MLB person. Ty Cobb had three of those at his funeral, two of whom were Hall of Famers. I don't think Bonds will do as well.

B.H.N.