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Baseball: Giants Fan

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posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:06 PM
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Both of you made very good arguments... but I think one persons argument made more of a case than the other.

EnosSlaughter made some good points such as:

  • Ortiz sits on the bench when his team is in the field
  • Rodriguez is not only an everyday player, he is a premiere 3rd basemen in this league.
  • most D.H. are slower than say position players.

    Crawford89 made some good ponts also, such as:

  • pitcher is completely accepted as being the MVP
  • DH creates runs, and contributes alot to his team
  • If Pitchers that just pitch can do it...why cant hitters that hit do it?

    Based on both of these arguments, and the content contained within, I believe EnosSlaughter is the victor. The main problem Crawford had was going to much into the Pitchers stats. This was for DH's, not Pitchers. While pitchers could most definately been used for the argument, more focus should have been put into the actual DH stats and such... and quite possibly the current A-Rod/Ortiz MVP race. While I feel DH's should get an MVP, Enos' argument waws stronger. Congrats, and hopfully this has helped prepare just a little, for what is to come later.




  • posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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    thanks for the preparation



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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    why do u believe dhs should get mvps?



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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    in the "Big" Debate... be prepared to make numerous posts. Posts that will counter what the other did. Not just your views. This was good for a warm-up... but the actual thing will be much more difficult, and chould span over a few days. Posts do not have to be made immediately, but within a reasonable time period... such as 36 hours. If not, be ready to be disqualified. The rules will become clearer once the real debate kicks off.



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:09 PM
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    THats gunna be insane, thanx



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:10 PM
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    can there also be teams of 2 or 3 against each other in bigger debates



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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    for example two teams working together against each other



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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    i gotta go to bed, night, thanx giants fan



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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    Originally posted by Crawford89
    why do u believe dhs should get mvps?


    Why? Because a DH is as much a baseball player as anybody. As Crawford said, if a Pitcher that hit's .100 can be an MVP, why can't a DH have an MVP for not fielding? MVP... let's see what that means...

    MVP= Most VALUABLE Player

    It does not = Best Hitter/Fielder.

    We have two players... Both have the SAME exact stats. 120 RBI, 45 HR's, .320 Avg. Player A's team finished last in the division. Player B's team made the playoffs. Player B will win the MVP, because his contributions meant more to his team by getting them to the playoffs. He was VALUABLE to his team, in that, had he not played... they would not have made the playoffs. Player A could be taken out of the lineup, and they're team is still in last place.

    David Ortiz is a big part of the Red Sox success, especially last post-season. A-Rod, has contributed to his teams wins as well. The difference? Look at the players that surround them... Which line-up do YOU think is better?

    Red Sox

    Johnny Damon
    Edgar Renteria
    Manny Ramirez
    Jason Varitek

    Yankees

    Derek Jeter
    Hideki Matsui
    Jason Giambi
    Jorge Posada
    Bernie Williams

    There are other players to list, but why bother? It's clear Ortiz must put more work in, in order to keep his team in 1st place. Jason Giambi has contributed way more than A-Rod as of late.

    So if the race were EXCLUSIVELY between Ortiz and A-Rod... Ortiz should win hands down. But I feel Vladimir Guerrero is the AL MVP for keeping his Angels in First in the AL West.



    posted on Sep, 17 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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    Originally posted by EnosSlaughter
    can there also be teams of 2 or 3 against each other in bigger debates


    Those are possible, but from past Debates on another site, Team Debates didn't work very well. We'd do a day of research to post, to find our partner has pretty much posted half of what you spent the WHOLE day researching on. It much easier to do 1 on 1, and helps show your sports knowledge. because what if you couldn't even spell baseball, but your partner was a walking sportencyclopedia? If you guys won, you wouldn't have earned it. It's not as bad as it sounds....



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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    What's going on?



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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    Originally posted by GiantsFan

    Originally posted by Crawford89
    why do u believe dhs should get mvps?



    MVP= Most VALUABLE Player

    It does not = Best Hitter/Fielder.

    .


    Exactly! The MVP is not meant to be awarded to the player with the most stats, And just because Ortiz does not play the field does not make him any less important to his team. The yanks would not be as good of a team without Arod (As i type this he hits a homerun vs. the blue jays LOL), However if you took Ortiz away from the Red Sox they would be much worse then an Arod-less Yanks.

    Eric Gagne won the NL Cy young award and he is lucky to pitch 1 inning per game. DH in the AL has much more of a role than a closer in the NL. I do not knock the importance of a closer, just trying to use as an example. I do believe Arod is the MVP of the league, I also believe DH's are fitting candidates as well.

    Just as Edgar is a first ballot into the hall of fame, IMO!



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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    reginald it was a debate



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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    darn. I missed it.



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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    well chissler...shut up



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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    I'm not chissler



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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    and some1 that plays the field everyday fills a position, any fielder can be a dh, but not alot of dh's can be fielders, you're playing 162 games of 9 innings, not 4 or 5 when you sit the bench and watch your team, so that is a pretty big value to the team

    look at 95 nl mvp, barry larkin didnt have impressive stats but he was a great fielder, and that helped his pitchers



    posted on Sep, 18 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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    Fielding is very important. A-Rod saved the game for the Yanks vs the Blue Jays with his play in the 9th. He went 0-4 with 3 Ks but still was player of the game (pretty sure).



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