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Baseball: Stat 101/The Boss/Jeter

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posted on May, 22 2004 @ 06:44 PM
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22+33+46=101 reasons why George Steinbrenner is a vindictive back-stabber. From 1996 to 2000, #22 Roger Clemens, #33 David Wells and #46 Andy Pettitte won a combined eight championships rings with the Yanks...

But free agency is about freedom of choice, and the trio left in the off-season on their own terms. Despite what the Boss might say, he was none too pleased with how things ended up - helping him win four World Series wasn't enough...

I wonder if Mr. Steinbrenner himself handpicked the jerseys for #22 Jon Lieber, #33 Javier Jazquez and #46 Donovan Osborne. Nah, probably just a coincidence…

Finally, with a .190 "BPA," Jeter is miserably failing Stat 101...



Ben

posted on May, 22 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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so you saying the yankees wont go to the playoffs



posted on May, 22 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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Not at all - what would possibly lead you to think that?

In fact, I mentioned nothing about Yankees as a team or the playoffs. Now that you mention it, the Bossman and the Cashman have fielded a great team this year.

But now that you mention it...

I still question just about every off-season move they made. Sheffield was a quick signing - perhaps too quick. Why didn't they put more effort in pursuing the younger, better Vlad? They practically gave Guerrero to Anaheim.

An aging Quantrill over Latroy Hawkins or even Tim Worrell?

An aging Lofton to replace an agin Bernie in center? What about Carlos Guillen? He might not be a pure center fielder, but his upside is huge.

Brown was an adequate replacement for Clemens. Old man #2 may even be better than old man #1.

I love Vazquez, but he's another righty, and we'll only know if he fill Pettitte's shoes come playoff time - if they get there.

I know they signed Lieber a while back, but again - he's a righty, and Boomer was a proven October commodity.

Heredia is garbage - competent lefty set-up men are scarce, but they good've done a hell of a lot better despite Felix' sub-1.00 ERA down the stretch in 2003.

Gordon is an adequate set-up for a set-up man.

And obviously, ARod was the coup of the off-season.

So the 2004 Yanks are as good or worse than last year's version, but they'll probably make the playoffs.

The thing is they could've done a lot better in the off-season.

[Edited on 04/10/03 by deanchristopher]


TRD

posted on May, 23 2004 @ 04:13 AM
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Interesting thing with the numbers there DeanC....

23 World Series have been won by the New York Yankees. Also they won their first World Series in 1923. Ah, statistics.

On to the Red Sox..

The first retired numbers- notice the order 9,4,1,8.

September 4, 1918- the date of the eve of Game 1 of the 1918 World Series.

The last series the Sox have won.

Coincidence or the "Curse of the Bambino?"

(The Sox have since changed the order. And added 27 for Carlton Fisk.)


Ben

posted on May, 23 2004 @ 10:46 AM
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I think that the Yankees were looking for more of an experience players than the younger players, for when the playoffs come they can have the experience versus the youth



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 01:44 PM
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Yeah, the retired numbers thing is interesting, but that's old news, and you didn't come up with it.

As far as the off-season...

Naturally they were trying to make a playoff-ready veteran team, but my point is they took it too far. When they won 4 times in 5 years from 1996-2000, the foundation of their team was youth. It was a brilliant 50/50 mix of rising stars and established vets. For every Jeter, Posada, Pettitte and Rivera there was a Brosius, a Gerardi, a Boomer and a Stanton.

Other than ARod and Vazquez, who'll be a huge star in New York, what do the Yankees have to look forward to down the road? Posada isn't getting any younger, and Jeter seems to be at a crossroads in his career (and it's not just this year, look at his performance over the last few seasons vs when they were winning championships)

Sure, they'll just buy a new crop of players, and that's fine - the Red Sox are doing the same thing.

Point being, the next time they buy, they better buy young, or the Yanks will be old news, just like the Curse...


TRD

posted on May, 24 2004 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by deanchristopher
Yeah, the retired numbers thing is interesting, but that's old news, and you didn't come up with it.


Did i say i came up with it? Nope i said ahh statistics.
I could have put a link but i didn't see the point.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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Didn't say you said you came up with it - just said you didn't.

But back to the point - would you agree that age is becoming an issue in NY?

Trust me, I remember when the likes of Jack Clark, Ivan Calderon and Andre Dawson were big signings in Boston while the Yanks were building for the future around the likes of a young Bernie Williams...


TRD

posted on May, 24 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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Well yea i would say age is definatly becomming a issue. I'm not 100 % sure how old some of the Yank's are but some seem past there sell by date. Sheffield is having a bad season whats he 33? I'm not sure of the shelf life of a baseball player but in the UK (soccer). Most of the succesful winning teams have mainly young players with a few old heads to calm the ship. So i guess it works in other sports aswell. I would say the Yankees need to bring in younger talent and build a side that would be around for years to come and dominating the sport. Not trying to buy instant success which doesn't seem to be happening.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 02:43 PM
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It's hard to say exactly how old...old is these days with the ongoing success of Kevin, Brown, Clemens, Bonds, Glavine, Randy Johnson on the All-Star level and the Benito Santiagos of the world still doing it just a tier below.

The bottom line is that - as you said - the mix is what counts, and you'll always need players with upside to sustain any pro sports franchise.

The vets will usually win the war in the post-season, but you need the young guys to play 162.

Where would the Marlins be without Beckett and Cabrera? Somewhere, but not all the way there. But throw in Conine and Pudge and you've got a World Series.


TRD

posted on May, 24 2004 @ 02:50 PM
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Thing is aswell the older a player gets the more likely of a injury. So whats the point of having someone on the side if they are going to miss half the season. The marlins as you say is a good example. I guess with the Yankees it's a money thing aswell, lets buy all the top stars reguardless of age. Thing is this doesn't alway's work out. I would liked to have seen them bring in at least 4/5 younger up and comming stars and slowly ease them in. With the money they have they should be the best team around and winning the top prize every year.



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