A question for discussion concerning Polytheism in the Bible

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posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 08:28 AM
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DISCLAIMER: This post is in no way intended to be anti-christian or anti-bible or anti-anything. It is merely a discussion thread to address reasons as to WHY or HOW these peices of scripture made it into or have stayed in the bible. Any biggoted remarks will be reported and deleted!

Through out the bible there are many hints of polytheism...can anyone better versed in the scriptures than I give me any insite as to why?

Here are some Quotes:


Isaiah 14:13
You thought you would sit like a king on that mountain in the north where the gods assemble.



Jeremiah 7:20
And so I, the Soveriegn Lord, will pour out my fierce anger on this Temple.

The above quote is about when the people Israel begin to worship multiple gods, God says he is Soveriegn instead of the ONLY God, why? That is not the right word? Or could God not discount the fact that there WERE indeed other gods?

What say you?

Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 11-11-2002 by FreeMason]




posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 08:41 AM
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If you think I'm going to type out all of my replies again...You're nuts.


Thaks a *lot* "Moderator"!



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 11:51 AM
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Not one of my bibles has that exact qoute.

heres what mine qoutes, both of them.

Isaiah 14:13

"" You said in your heart: i will scale the heavens above stars of
God, I will set up my throne, i will take my seat on the mount of assembly ""

what bible are you using?


also

Jeremiah says no such thing, heres what both ofmy bibles state.

Jeremiah 7:20

"" See now, says the lord God, my anger and my wrath will pour upon
this place, upon man aand beast, upon the trees of the field and the fruits
of the earth; it will burn without being quenched ""]

again where in the world do you get your bible from.

I have never read one passage indicating polytheism in the OT or NT, God says many
times he is the only lord, where are those passages from because they are what i just wrote in
all of my bibles??

peace.



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 02:43 PM
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There's a whole bunch of references to other gods (and to Jehovah being one of their number) in the Bible.

They're summarized here:
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com...



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 03:04 PM
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Good article Byrd, great to see some fresh input


There are two main aspects to see here, one is God using the plural of himself to include his Holy Spirit and possibly Jesus...

The second is that there are other gods ... ie: worshipped images, or even demonic entities... but YHWH is the "Lord of Lords"

In the Old Testament times, a name was not only identification, but an identity as well. Many times a special meaning was attached to the name. Names had, among other purposes, an explanatory purpose.

In the OT God is known as 'el el-yone'
The Most High God. It expresses the extreme sovereignty and majesty of God and His highest preeminence. When the two words are combined El Elyon it can be translated as "the most exalted God."(Psa 57:2)

We are not talking of smaller gods, like the demonic gods of Egypt, but of the Greatest God.. (el o-lawm') The Everlasting God, The God of Eternity, The God of the Universe, The God of Ancient Days


There is a part in the OT where the Ark is placed in a pagan temple with a pagan statue, and each morning when the people go out there the pagan statue has fallen over on its face.

That is the relationship between YHWH and the other gods... BTW there is no evidence that other 'gods' create, only YHWH does that.



[Edited on 11-11-2002 by Netchicken]



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 03:24 PM
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The Queen uses the royal "we"Perhaps there is something similar going on on Byrds link.
Also the early bible would have been collated in the latter days of the Roman Empire so maybe the references to The God above all other gods and similar references were part of the process of converting Pagans to Christianity.

But there are references to entities that would challenge God,Satan for example.Beings beyond the control of God.

I would be interested to hear someone with a better knowledge of the bible than me answer that point.How can an almighty God have challengers which he can not destroy.



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 03:42 PM
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Well technically he CAN destroy them. But often he uses humans as instruments of his will as well, instead of a divine snuffing out...

How many of the old gods are still around? Who worships Baal? Thor? Ra? they HAVE died out.

But those gods are often a state of the heart, people need to worship something and the bible speaks of the impotence of gods of wood and stone.

If God snuffed them out then people would just go back to worshiping the trees etc primitive animism. Its only when they find Him that they find the True God to worship....

It reminds me of ducklings bonding to any being they see when they are born and thinking that is their parent. They don't realise that their TRUE parent is not a human...

[Edited on 12-11-2002 by Netchicken]



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 09:40 PM
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Actually the funny thing is NC worshipers of RA are a lot more common than you think. Did you know there actually is a room where every Pope in recorded history goes to talk to God. The shape is actually (right down to the Millimeter just like the Kings Chamber at Giza. I do not have a sites which back that up, but by all I believe in I swear it is true.



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 09:49 PM
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Hmm odd our own bibles don't match, but that is the case many times, I've seen it before....I'm not sure HOW to tell WHAT bible it is, and I was looking for that myself...it just says "Good News Bible, Today's English Version"

And through out this bible like my dad's mormon bible there are plenty of polytheist statements.

Truth: What does your bible say for Genesis 1:26

Mine says...


Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us."

And NetChicken, you say that the "old gods" are forgotten, not existant anymore. And yet Wiccanism or whatever is the fastest growing religion in the world
Are they "old gods" returning? Your comments please.

And NetChicken, while you are showing that the bible does indeed teach us to worship only ONE god, you are not discounting the fact that there are or at least were other gods?

Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 12-11-2002 by FreeMason]

[Edited on 12-11-2002 by FreeMason]



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 09:51 PM
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For the Record that is not included in the Standard Tour



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 10:32 PM
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Someone has to be lying to you FM, i have a protestant and two catholic
bibles and they all say the same passages.

You probably have read "horrible" interpretations fro those
who interpret to themselves.


Now what does genesis say.

Your qoute is the wrong qoute again.

i have three bibles including a protestant one that says.

Gen 1:26

"" Let us make man in our image after our likeness ""

he probably was talking to the angels whom appear to be human like in appearance and
were created before the human race.


where in the world do these qoute come from??

They are very incorrect qoutes, and not ONE time in ANY of the bibles does it support
poly theism.

peace.



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 10:44 PM
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What are you talking about even your Genesis 1:26 quote is blatantly polytheistic....I doubt he is referring to angels, although he could be. And as for which bible is the correct one...I'm not sure that's the issue
the fact is that some bibles use this as the translations...and others use other similary translations.

How do we actually know which scripture is the actuall correct one.

Now I think Byrd's link actually is a well rounded insite into other quotes from the bible that have both polytheistic and monotheistic references.

Sincerely,
no signature



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 10:46 PM
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Good gracious I am about to have a serious talk with FM



Originally posted by FreeMason
it just says "Good News Bible, Today's English Version"



FM The GNB is a nice version but it is written for easy reading, you need a study bible to get to the true heart of the matter. There is a thread here on good study bibles...

I also use this..

www.blueletterbible.org...

you can cut and paste verses from there to here in a wide range of versions. Its great.



And NetChicken, you say that the "old gods" are forgotten, not existant anymore. And yet Wiccanism or whatever is the fastest growing religion in the world
Are they "old gods" returning? Your comments please.


The old gods are forgoton but they also return under differnent names. The old gods comprise 2 types, human ideals and satanic entities. The entities are still around, the ideals are timeless.

As to "the fastest growing religion" firstly no big deal, its growing from nothing so its still a statistical blip. Secondly, its a wishy washy set if ideals to live by (as far as I know), does that make it a religion?



posted on Nov, 11 2002 @ 10:56 PM
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Thor has a lot of worshippers these days (you'd have to be Pagan to know this), as do many of the other gods and goddesses. Isis always had her share of worshippers and in the past 100 years there's been a real revival of Isis worship.

Even Bast has her adherents.

If I remember the concordances correctly, the "we" in the Bible was not the Royal We (which didn't exist in Hebrew) but was a "multiple persons" type of "we."



posted on Nov, 12 2002 @ 05:49 AM
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"...in our likeness..." the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We are a triunal creature, with a body a soul and a spirit.



posted on Nov, 12 2002 @ 05:57 AM
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anyone here know the author of this book? huh? anyone?
ok, anyone here an expert of ancient linguistic semiotics?

no?

ok then, lets look at what the bible says:

"Let us make man in our image after our likeness "

ok this is obviously God using the royal plural to denote his omnipotence.

alternatively this is obviously god chatting to his angels about what they should all do.

alternatively this is obviously God saying that they should hold of making man until the dude who's like god has gone first.

alternatively this is obviously God discussing a diagram or image of man that he's drawn based on a cameo portrait of himself.

etc etc etc

jeesh.



posted on Nov, 12 2002 @ 07:14 AM
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How old is the Royal Plural?

www.us-israel.org...

Early Hebrew religion was polytheistic; the curious plural form of the name of God, Elohim rather than El, leads them to believe that the original Hebrew religion involved several gods. This plural form, however, can be explained as a "royal" plural. Several other aspects of the account of Hebrew religion in Genesis also imply a polytheistic faith.

The earliest Hebrew religion was animistic, that is, the Hebrews seemed worship forces of nature that dwelled in natural objects.

As a result, much of early Hebrew religion had a number of practices that fall into the category of magic: scapegoat sacrifice and various forms of imitative magic, all of which are preserved in the text of Genesis .

Early Hebrew religion eventually became anthropomorphic, that is, god or the gods took human forms; in later Hebrew religion, Yahweh becomes a figure that transcends the human and material worlds. Individual tribes probably worshipped different gods; there is no evidence in Genesis that anything like a national God existed in the time of the patriarchs.

www.columbia.edu...

While the prescript indicates that the letter was addressed by Alexander to the Chians, its original form seems to have been altered in the process of transcription at Chios: note the differing forms of reference to Alexander in the third person, the use of what appears to be the royal plural in the provision about the Chian triremes, and the ambiguous us (a royal plural, or does it refer to the Chians themselves?) in the last sentence but one

Apologies for manic cut and paste.



posted on Nov, 12 2002 @ 10:19 AM
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I find this very interesting. I always thought of all this in a simplistic view.
God the Father of our Spirits, Christ the Father of Creation under direction of the Father. And the Holy Spirit, the testifier of the two. Did not David say that "Jehovah is my Salvation" If there can only be one salvation or Savior, then I presume that Jehovah is some sort of Spirit that took on a body which was called Yeshua. He being called the Christ. Would that not make John 1:1-4 make a little more sense connecting to the Genesis "let us create man in our image."? This is just a thought, on my part. This also makes the "I knew thee before I formed thee, and I ordained thee a prophet." In Jeremiah make a little more sense.



posted on Nov, 12 2002 @ 10:28 AM
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Genesis existed before Jesus or the later Trinity explanation.



posted on Nov, 12 2002 @ 11:55 AM
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John Bull 1


According to what the Bible says, Jesus was in existence before the Book of Genesis was written.

In John 1.1. = in the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the woed was God. God is triune, Jesus is a part of that Trinity, so Jesus like God is uncreated and has always been.

John 8: 56-58. "your father abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM".

Abraham's life is mentioned in the book of Genises, And Jesus says he was before Abraham.

In the Book of Hebrews 12:1 it says that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. A christians faith is in the word of God. So from this Jesus is the author of the word of God.

The Book of Revelations Speaks of Jesus Being the Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and the Ending, The First and the Last.

I know the phsyical form of Jesus was only around 2000 years ago, But Genesis was not before Jesus himself, Because Jesus was the one who gave the words to moses to write that first book of the Bible.





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