Best trained in Hand-to-Hand combat...

I believe the Spetsnaz, they are trained in Sambo(basically judo) and they are all pretty damn good at it. Same with the Israeli SF. They train Krav Maga, which is pretty effective.

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha Im gonna say guys from the North of Ireland, especially after a few drinks, altho the women here are quite tough and scary at times too

Ah yes! The infamous Dustbin Whores who the cowardly scum of the IRA hid behind. And they still called themselves an Army?!

Those women didn't hide behind woolly balaclavas and kneecap some poor defenseless scrote but openly showed their utter comtempt and outrage for us in their actions, night after night.

At least those women knew how to fight and didn't sit in their own filth drinking themselves in to believing their sensless violence was heroism!

It should have been the women who wore the trousers and not the IRA, the Real IRA, INLA or even the sad gits in the IPLO because they showed more guts and balls than their so called men folk ever did!

F'kin 'ell Fritzy! Been on the ale this evening? You're sounding a bit upset!

Originally posted by fritz

It should have been the women who wore the trousers

It was in my house! My ma would have cut me nuts off as soon as look at me if I upset her. She was (and still is) a force to be reckoned with. Used to scare the sh1t out of my mates, most of whome were squaddies. And she's all of 4'11" tall.

...and even the sad gits of the IPLO...

What, both of them?

[edit on 19-7-2010 by PaddyInf]

reply to post by PaddyInf[/url] Nah, me old fruit. Just sick 'an tired of listening to armchair cowboys and indigirls.

No ale tonite but I'm gonna have a swig of Ouzo to bring me old blood pressure down a tad or two!

Hey I just found an excellent website and it sells this:

www.thedrinkshop.com...

Originally posted by UndergroundNetwork
...are most definatly the Gurkas (sp?)

The Gurkha's are not trained in any special unarmed combat and neither do they conduct any special training with the Kukri knife.

Originally posted by fritz
reply to post by PaddyInf[/url] Nah, me old fruit. Just sick 'an tired of listening to armchair cowboys and indigirls.

No ale tonite but I'm gonna have a swig of Ouzo to bring me old blood pressure down a tad or two!

Hey I just found an excellent website and it sells this:

www.thedrinkshop.com...

My Uncle used to brew this stuff up in his shed out of potatoes. It tasted like crap, but you could have a right cheap night on it (assuming it didn't make you go blind of course).

Just to keep the topic on thread, if you want to see hand to hand fighting just wait for a Granada full of the boys topped up on this stuff and you'll see probably the greatest unarmed fighting force known to man using some techniques you won't see in any book.

Or you'll see five pissed blokes fall all over the place and make prats out of themselves while the try to ascertain if you were indeed 'looking at their sister funny'.

Either way, it's entertaining to watch.

Originally posted by Vowles
English Football Fans. The reason no one would be silly enough to try and invade us hehe. On a more serious note, I'd Vote for the Spetsnaz then SAS.

The SAS do NOT do no specialist hand to hand training of any note.

Originally posted by fritz

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha Im gonna say guys from the North of Ireland, especially after a few drinks, altho the women here are quite tough and scary at times too

Ah yes! The infamous Dustbin Whores who the cowardly scum of the IRA hid behind. And they still called themselves an Army?!

Those women didn't hide behind woolly balaclavas and kneecap some poor defenseless scrote but openly showed their utter comtempt and outrage for us in their actions, night after night.

At least those women knew how to fight and didn't sit in their own filth drinking themselves in to believing their sensless violence was heroism!

It should have been the women who wore the trousers and not the IRA, the Real IRA, INLA or even the sad gits in the IPLO because they showed more guts and balls than their so called men folk ever did!

bitter much?

Originally posted by fritz

Ah yes! The infamous Dustbin Whores

And why "Whores" exactly? As someone that has spent time in NI, I have never known the nationalist women to be called that and find it highly insulting especially as they were merely supporting a cause that they believed in.

Originally posted by Extreme Pilgrim

Originally posted by UndergroundNetwork
...are most definatly the Gurkas (sp?)

The Gurkha's are not trained in any special unarmed combat and neither do they conduct any special training with the Kukri knife.

Well, the question wasn't asking if it was "special". They train, regardless, their fighting spirit is famous.

reply to post by depth om


With respect, the modern Gurkha's reputation is based on myth and legend of old. I have worked alongside them in a number of fields and they certainly weren't stand out performers as people are led to believe. Average jungle troops, very poor western Europe troops and they never go to the Arctic. If swinging a Kukri around is seen as some great ninja skill, that doesn't say a lot especially in light of recent event in which one was sent back to the UK for beheading a dead Taliban commander as a means of ID'ing his corpse.

The problem with these so called hand to hand combat training techniques is they aren't realistic.

The attackers usually attack at a slow to moderate speed and predetermined way.

What if your attacker knows it is either you or him and is attacking as if his life was in real danger. That's when everything changes. That is when extraordinary feats take place and the well trained one gets his ass handed to him.

All this Russian sp forces, krav maga, jujitsu stuff is practical to a certain degree but isn't all that realistic.

reply to post by superluminal11


So what is realistic? Not training and relying on your god-like crisis powers to save you?

reply to post by Extreme Pilgrim


This is strictly about H2H combat. Seeing as many of them aren't even schooled yet are assimilated into tours of combat is telling of their skills. You gave an example of a gurkha disobeying sop, that in my opinion doesn't discount his combat prowess.

I believe many units, forces etc. all take from the same pool of available techniques and mold a general set of skills reflecting the needs of their operations.

I think the question the thread poses is one answerable only by opinion, seeing as all techniques were derived from the human mind, the one who wields mind most cunningly will succeed, always.

Having sat through a number of (not so) special forces 'demonstrations I can categorically that most of the skills and drills practiced by some nations have no place in the real world. Jumping through fiery hoops, being whacked in the stomach with poles, breaking lying on a bed of nails (I do not joke you) are not great attributes to call in on the front line.

So all you armchair ninjas out there should take a step back from the keyboard, pack away you Chuck Norris videos and get down to the local MMA club and see weather your 1" punch or third world nation SF police unit grappling moves will withstand a beating by some steroid freaks fury.

reply to post by Extreme Pilgrim


I'm sure those drills and circus routines are usually for media or an actual event, or to build camraderie, not everyday routine.

As for armchair ninjas you sound like one yourself, even if you aren't you have no right to talk down like that to others. You may be some bad ass operator, but you still might get jumped and kicked in the head while walking to your car. Lesser things have happened to greater men. It's annoying when someone thinks they are superior.

anyways if you're trying to say that my study and practice outside of a hulk mma gym is meaningless, your argument is pretty weak, Just poke an eye out, kick to the groin, whatever, just train speed and accuracy like bruce, who you joke about, and you can take down anyone, though it may involve maiming them. MMA is also not the street. The street is void, you never know.

In my opinion the best defense is a good offense and the one who hits first wins.

reply to post by depth om


I am sorry if I appear to be coming across as superior but the OP is flawed in that members of the general public seem to look to their armed forces to be all-singing, all-dancing super soldiers. There are only so many training hours and most NATO forces focus more on their weapon handing/marksmanship then any other form of combat. If people are looking for guidance on the 'best fighting style', then look away from the military and seek out those that invest the time in that particular skill.

I don't mock anybody for preparing, especially as I feel more people should, but they should choose wisely and most of all enjoy the training otherwise they will falter and not digest the skills.

It takes lots of hours to get to any reasonable standard in any of the major fighting styles, certainly to get them to a useable stage.

In the last two decades of military service in some of the most dangerous places on earth, I've never had to resort to hand to hand combat or whatever you want to call it. I haven't heard of anyone in my Battalion having to either. That's in 14 years regular army service and 6 years part-time UDR. The nearest I've come to it is public order training and the odd riot in Ulster. Hardly Bruce Lee stuff needed to beat some muppet with a stick.

This is why we don't do much of that type of thing. I would find it really hard to justify the hours required to train troops in a skill that is really not going to be of any serious use. That's not to say that there won't be or have been such circumstances, just that it is so uncommon to be impractical to teach.

I believe that if a unit can factor in enough training time to be doing all of this stuff regularly then another piece of (almost certainly more useful) training is taking a back seat to it. That weakens their core skills as a soldier in my opinion.

If I approached the Trg Offr and said "Excuse me sir, I think we need to cut back on some of this pre-deployment training and factor in a bit of hand-to-hand", His reply would be along the lines of "Well Sgt PaddyInf, that is a very interesting suggestion and I'll take it under advisement. Now get out of my office, give your head a wobble and come back in when you have something serious to ask. Oh and when was the last time you had a compulsory drug test?" or words to that effect.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by PaddyInf]

Originally posted by Extreme Pilgrim And why "Whores" exactly? As someone that has spent time in NI, I have never known the nationalist women to be called that and find it highly insulting especially as they were merely supporting a cause that they believed in.

That very un-pc nickname is what my unit called them. If it offends you, well what the fcuk can I say to that?! I make no apologies for my terminology.

Can I change the history of the late 60s and early 70s? No, of course not.

Much the same as Pandora and Rainbow will never forget giving blokes BJs through the wire at Greenham Common.

My point was a very grudging respect - often hard earnt on the end of an SLR butt that was not afforded to their menfolk who hid, more often than not, behind their skirts and balaclavas!

It happened. Get over it, I have. ish

Originally posted by PaddyInf Now get out of my office, give your head a wobble and come back in when you have something serious to ask. Oh and when was the last time you had a compulsory drug test?" or words to that effect.

Yeah, right! I just had this vision of you walking down the corridoor, peeing into a bottle whilst shaking yer swede!

I have to say I do agree with Extreme Pilgrim. Life is not a Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee film.

It may surprise some posters to know that the Kung Fu and Karate shown in those films was actually slow move ballet dancing, speeded up and the Shaw Brothers in Hong Kong were the best producers ever.

I have to say however, that if your chosen martial art teaches pressure points or pressure holds, some of that knowledge can be useful if you are the assailant but as the attacked? I don't think so!

[edit on 03/07/10 by fritz]

The question I'd like to ask is why the OP is so interested in which armed forces has the best hand to hand combat training? What does it matter? You cannot polish a turd and the hardest guys I've ever had a ding dong with have never stepped into a gym, served in the forces, trained in martial arts and drink like fish. Just go to any working class pub in any industrial city in the world and spill your pint on the craziest looking chap to study extreme violence up close and personal like....