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so what day was dinosaurs then?

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posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 03:09 PM
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The Bible is about man; not dinosaurs. What a screwed up creation that God had made. He even says he was sorry he created man. And if it werent for Noah, we wouldnt even be having this discussion. If you look at Genesis and "read"what is being told there; it is the story of "evolution". Life first starts in the water, then on land, then Man is created. That is exactly what scientists have discovered to be the case through "fossil evidence". If you look at one of the "older versions" of the Bible; God created "kinds" of animals. The definition of kind is "similar". So he created "canids" which evolved into wolves, coyotes, dogs, foxes, etc. He created "felines" which "evolved" into the various cat species, lions, tigers, etc. There is no dispute about whether life was "created" or "evolved". Life was created and it evolved into those species that were able to find a niche and survive. There is plenty of fossil evidence to show thousands of species that didnt make it. Miniature rhinoceros, miniature horses and elephants, gigantipithicus, a giant ape. Even today hundreds and maybe even thousands of species go extinct each century. The "REAL" story of the Bible is about what a mess God made when he created man.




posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 10:58 AM
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Just to ruffle the christian feathers- noah's art wouldnt have worked.

If he had two of every animal then what the hell did the offspring of each animal do. Their children would have been mutated and died.

Also if god is all knowing and all powerful why does he make so many mistakes???

Lastly if we were given the Earth to lokk after shouldne we all burn in hell?



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 09:42 PM
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Why wouldn’t the ark have worked? It was made of wood [that floats] it was pitch lined both inside and outside [so it was double waterproof]. It had an open keel hole that came to within 18 inches of the roof on the inside of the ark. This was “air conditioning”. As the ark rose and fell on the waves the rising and falling water in this “keel hole” forced the air up and out of the ark on the rising phase and sucked air in on the falling phase of the water; keeping the air inside the ark at least tolerable and quite possible comfortable.

This is a literal translation from a Hebrew Bible
Gen 6: 16 “A light shalt thou make to the ark, and to a cubit shalt thou finish it upward; …….”
.

So you explain to me why it didn’t work!

Bumble Bees aren’t suppose to fly either. Tell me how scientists can look into a telescope and see 4 billion years into the past. Scientifically that is impossible also. And don’t give me that light traveling at 186,000 miles per second “crap” I want to see science send a reflection of something into the future 4 billion years using only the light reflected off of the object. They cannot because of the impurities of our atmosphere and the particles in the way at that distance. Either each individual particle of light will have hit cosmic dust and be absorbed or deflected into another direction or the light waves will have been sufficiently diffused by the same dust that it would be at best an imperceivable blur.

There were "clean animals" on the ark of which there were "seven" pairs of each [male and female] Gen chapter 7:
[2] Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate;
[3] and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive upon the face of all the earth.
Clean animals are those that do not eat flesh. Unclean animals are those that eat flesh [carnivores]
At that time there weren’t the genetic problems of inbreeding that we have today. They were “pure strains” if you will. One of the reasons that every soul but Noah and his wife and sons and their wives was obliterated was because man had infected the animal genetic lines. Where mutations, and genetic disorders would have taken place. How do I know that! Read about Sodom and Gonorrah, then look around at what condition the animals are in today. Disease runs rampant among much of the animal species. Rabies, brucellosis, avian flu. Herpes simplexes, these are all human caused conditions. Mostly because of loss of habitat which includes nutritious food, and overcrowding and genetic mutation because of the loss of genetic stock.

As far as being all knowing and powerful prove to me that he isn’t. Nowhere in the Bible does it say God is infallible. In fact there are several that I can point out to you that indicate that he has made a few “miscalculations”. Eve’s influence on Adam, The serpent’s seduction of Eve, One of his Angels betraying him, the inability of Jesus’ disciple to understand what he was saying. Mark Mathew and Luke are full of “don’t you get it yet” quotes from Jesus to the disciples because they didn’t have a clue what he was saying and in Genesis 8:21 God says that man was inherently “evil”. YOU show me where in the Bible it says that God doesn’t make mistakes! He made the biggest blunder of all; he created man. Look around you. All of the problems here are from man’s hand; show me one thing that was caused directly and only because of another animal on this earth, Im not talking about an animal being an annoyance to us. I mean causing more harm than good.

Buddy! The message of the Bible is that we are going to burn in Hell. Me included. Im not perfect. There are some that are going to make it, but I can assure you that I am not one of them.

Im sorry for being wordy but I explained it as efficiently as I am able.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 09:49 PM
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Tell me how scientists can look into a telescope and see 4 billion years into the past. Scientifically that is impossible also. And don’t give me that light traveling at 186,000 miles per second “crap” I want to see science send a reflection of something into the future 4 billion years using only the light reflected off of the object. They cannot because of the impurities of our atmosphere and the particles in the way at that distance. Either each individual particle of light will have hit cosmic dust and be absorbed or deflected into another direction or the light waves will have been sufficiently diffused by the same dust that it would be at best an imperceivable blur.


Uhh... LMFAO!


Stay in school eh?


And sad as it is. None of this is man's fault. We didn't start creation nor evil did we?



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 10:38 PM
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OK, ElONe...

How far do YOU think those twinkly stars are from us? How old do you think the light is by the time it reaches us?

And how do you know that mutation didn't exist at some time while life did? And don't give me that kind crap; I guess all the insects evolved from 1 "bug" kind.


And, what about the fungi, protists, and the prokaryotes? Did they just float aroung in the water?
I'm just gonna stop now...and just laugh.




posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 01:33 AM
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I'm struck by the way everyone either wants to take the Bible entirely literally, or completely symbolically. The Bible is not a scientific treatise, where you should expect a complete description of every species extant at the time, nor is it wholly a spiritual analogy. It is partly spiritual and partly historical, and I see no reason that it should require a literal 6 day creation.

There is plenty of evidence of the coexistence of man and dinosaures. If you think not come down here to Glen Rose, Tejas and see the dino track with a human footprint inside it. There is also in a nearby museum a tin cup found in a coal deposit determined to be millions of years old, along with many other similar artifacts. Immanuel Velikovsky offers abundant proof of multiple cataclysms on earth from an atheistic point of view in 'Earth in Upheaval' and 'Worlds in Collision'. I might mention here that massive cataclysms work against the theory of evolution.

Science is no more free from political influence that any other discipline. I fear that the anti-Biblical bias of the current culture has crept into this one time light-bringer to mankind.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by resistor
There is plenty of evidence of the coexistence of man and dinosaures.

Rather there is not a single peice of evidence that supports this.


If you think not come down here to Glen Rose, Tejas and see the dino track with a human footprint inside it.

These are frauds, or, in some cases, poor interpretation of the tracks.


There is also in a nearby museum a tin cup found in a coal deposit determined to be millions of years old, along with many other similar artifacts.

You will find that there was no control on the discovery of this supposed artifact, as is allways that case with such 'out of place artifacts' claims.


Immanuel Velikovsky offers abundant proof of multiple cataclysms on earth from an atheistic point of view in 'Earth in Upheaval' and 'Worlds in Collision'.

Velikosvsky was trying to find major astronomical events that would've created the germ basis for classical mythology. He is universally rejected by people that actually study the cosmos.


I might mention here that massive cataclysms work against the theory of evolution.

This is incorrect.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
OK, ElONe...

How far do YOU think those twinkly stars are from us? How old do you think the light is by the time it reaches us?

And how do you know that mutation didn't exist at some time while life did? And don't give me that kind crap; I guess all the insects evolved from 1 "bug" kind.


And, what about the fungi, protists, and the prokaryotes? Did they just float aroung in the water?
I'm just gonna stop now...and just laugh.




posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 11:27 AM
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Im talking about how scientists looked into their hubble telescope and saw the beginning of the universe and more than one of them said, “ we are looking at the face of God”.

Mutations: life is a series of mutations. Scientists are just finding out that you can cause major genetic differences by “switching” genetic code on and off. Evolution is change. Mutation is change. Micro-evolution is change. The only time your not changing is when you are dead. Science has figured out that at the rate of cell repair in the human body every seven years or so, every cell in your body is different than those before.

Bugs: Im sure that all of the butterflies came from one bug kind and all ants from another.

Genesis chapter I
24] And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.

[25] And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

I would say that bugs would fall under the "creeping thing" kind

While you are laughing tell me how cows and fungi and birds and man came from the same speck of dirt from the big bang. How the same speck turned into a 60 ft whale, another speck into a worm, another into a butterfly,another into a turtle. Ill settle for an explanation of how a speck of dirt became conscious.

And another one bites the dust!


[edit on 24-2-2006 by ElOne]



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by ElOne
Im talking about how scientists looked into their hubble telescope and saw the beginning of the universe and more than one of them said, “ we are looking at the face of God”.

Uhmm, never happened.


While you are laughing tell me how cows and fungi and birds and man came from the same speck of dirt from the big bang.

They have major genes that they share in common. How'd this happen is jesus made them out of clay?


Ill settle for an explanation of how a speck of dirt became conscious.

Since no one claims this, its pretty irrelevant.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by ElOne
Bugs: Im sure that all of the butterflies came from one bug kind and all ants from another.

Genesis chapter I
24] And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.

[25] And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

I would say that bugs would fall under the "creeping thing" kind

While you are laughing tell me how cows and fungi and birds and man came from the same speck of dirt from the big bang. How the same speck turned into a 60 ft whale, another speck into a worm, another into a butterfly,another into a turtle. Ill settle for an explanation of how a speck of dirt became conscious.

And another one bites the dust!


[edit on 24-2-2006 by ElOne]


OK...like Produkt said, stay in school!


OK, since you're "sure" that all butterflies came from one kind, please define "kind." I ask this because, well, where do moths fit in with this butterfly "kind?" Are moths from another kind insect? And as for ants...
. Tell me, how does the ant kind fit in with the wasp kind and the bee kind? How much can kinds break down, guy? Remember, you're "sure" that this happened.

As for the speck of dirt, don't make me laugh. Have you seen a planet, even a small one? By the time life rolled around, it was on a huge friggin piece of rock! Anyway, I have nothing to explain because you seem to believe basically the same thing; that your god took dust and made a man, then took the man's rib and made a woman. How these genetic clones went on to found the 6+ billion people alive today is beyond me...



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 08:58 AM
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No, wait...I just noticed something.

You said all butterflies came from 1 bug "kind," not a butterfly "kind." So, how many kinds were there? Did the wolf come from 1 kind and the African hunting dog from another? Did the eagle come from 1 bird kind and the owl from another? How about E. coli and S. pneumoniae? What about cedar elms and hackberries?



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 10:47 AM
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Sorry ElOne do you have any idea on what the theory of evolution is.

All creatures did come form the same 'speck of dust' or more accuratly single cellular organism. Which multiplied and mutated to beocme multicellular then eventually into all that we have today.

Oh you want proof of evolution how about the new H5N1 strain of bird flu that evolved with what looks like is going to becoem a devastating effect.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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Let me get to this before ElOne does ...

Before you answer that ElOne, keep in mind that ToE does encompass adaptation's and such. ToE is not a one night stand wham bam thank ya ma'am *poof* new species thing. ToE isn't god.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 12:13 PM
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ElOne,
Interesting stuff. Could you provide a link so we can read the info in context? Is there actual science to it? We do prefer some sort of science to back opinions rather than bible references as not all of us are believers.
I would also like to know why your god spared Australia from the great flood? The animals [and people] on this continent have been slowly evolving uninterrupted and in isolation for millions of years.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by riley]



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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found recently in a t-rex bone were blood cells collegen tissue and other things very well preserved.and even still elastic. as for evolution I believe we do evolve to be able to survive yet in the last 30k years there has not been any evidence of any new specie showing up anywhere where are they?If we evolved from a rodent with 36 billion combinations in it's dna to what we are today in 7 million years with 56 billion combinations thats 20 billion significant changes in our dna in 7 million years? or around 3 billion changes a year. at that rate there should be new animals every week! where are they?at the current rate of evolution of one significant change every 10k years it should have taken560 trillion years for us to evolve on earth which is only around 4 billion years old. so science has 559.6 trillion years of evolution to explain that could not have happened on earth.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 06:14 PM
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I just love it when ppl pull number's outta their arse.


Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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Kim,
You're correct to question the glaring omission regarding ancient life in the bible or any other account that claims to be instructive and informed.
The simple answer is that the individual who made up the original story (and this may have been a female - scholars are not sure) did not know about Texas let alone about dinosaurs.
Remember also that the bible (KJV) most Xtians read and quote and know almost zero about was written by the English in the early 1600's. This was not a scholarly work but mostly plagiarized from the works of two actual scholars, namely Wycliffe and Tyndale and written to satisfy the prejudices and ignorance of the day.
The English were well informed but light in the Dinosaur department. Therefore, the god made by man cannot know that which his creator does not know.
On Jesus or pbuh, his translated Aramaic name, there is no evidence that a real person who can be described as jesus actually exiated.
skep



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 10:07 PM
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"Since no one claims this, its pretty irrelevant."

It is quite relevant. We are talking about how we got here, on earth. You are an evolutionist. Which Im assuming means you evolved from the big bang of the Universe. The problem I have with that is that there “is” micro-evolution meaning that individuals of a particular species develop behavioral changes or adapt minimal alterations to their existing anatomy [cave dwelling animals become blind] to help them adjust to their environment if it helps them to survive. Im sure that there are adaptations that do not work and they don’t lead anywhere [albino].

“They have major genes that they share in common. How'd this happen is jesus made them out of clay?”

Where did you read that Jesus created living organisms out of clay? There is plenty of evidence in the Bible he brought the dead back to life and cured people of maladies including mental disorders; but I haven’t read anything about him creating anything. He was here to plant God’s seed. And from what I read he wasn’t able to find a single person o his disciples, except Mary Magdelan. And I haven’t uncovered any evidence yet that he passed it on to her.

“Oh you want proof of evolution how about the new H5N1 strain of bird flu that evolved with what looks like is going to become a devastating effect.”

Read Revelations, anyone who knows anything about the Bible will tell you it sure looks like we are in the “end times”. Which says there will be “pestilences” to wipe out millions if not billions of people. Besides this is “micro-evolution” an organism adapting to survive. If man successfully wipes out all of the chickens in the world to eliminate H5N1 it will survive by invading the cells of other species. Evolution takes place over millions of years, this is happening within a few years, definitely suggestive of a higher “thought” process and a definite purpose. Time will tell.

Science has no “proof” that single cell organisms evolved into multi-celled organisms. They have fossil evidence that they existed, the multi-cell after the single cell and they go on the assumption that one evolved from the other. Ask a “real” expert, one who devotes his/her life to the pursuit of biological evolutionary evidence. It is the “theory” of evolution because at this time it is the best explanation they can come up with. And Im telling you that the Bible clearly states that life did evolve on earth and that the evolution process was “created” by God.

“ElOne,
Interesting stuff. Could you provide a link so we can read the info in context? Is there actual science to it? We do prefer some sort of science to back opinions rather than bible references as not all of us are believers.
I would also like to know why your god spared Australia from the great flood? The animals [and people] on this continent have been slowly evolving uninterrupted and in isolation for millions of years.”

I double check and recheck anything I don’t understand, by “Googling”. I started out as a pure evolutionist, then by being open minded by nature, I discuss ideas with people that I meet who spend their life, in one discipline of science. A good place to start is with the Bible. There are online versions and online dictionaries too. I keep at least two explorer panes open at any time to check the validity of a word or fact. The problem with the Bible is that there are so many “interpretations” or versions that it is difficult to determine which is the most accurate. For the Old Testament I “Google” a Hebrew to English bible since it was written in Hebrew.
www.mechon-mamre.org... This site is one that I use. Read it like a story book. It is interesting. Then query any questions you have. I like Google, Im sure there are other deep web sites, Im comfortable with this one.
Im not selling anything. I get involved in these discussions because every once in a while I am stumped. And there is the possibility for me to learn. And here tonight, is one of them.
“I would also like to know why your god spared Australia from the great flood? The animals [and people] on this continent have been slowly evolving uninterrupted and in isolation for millions of years.”

I don’t know the answer to that one. Yet! But if there is an answer out there somewhere I will do my best to find it, and get back to you. My hat goes off to you. I am on a quest.



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 06:34 AM
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I am already very familiar with the bible. I was wondering if you had anything apart from bible references to validate your opinions, specifically scientific facts. If the bible is fact science would concur with it rather than contradict it.


[edit on 26-2-2006 by riley]



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