Originally posted by Lucifer
I find the discussion of violence, war and the like as primitive, unevolved and the obvious self-empowerment a one attempts to enjoy by sharing fear-based garbage like that. Sorry sniper talkers but there must be a little too much need in you for hairless-monkey talk like that! Who but a feeble and weak being believes that their life holds any value over another's by general majority? A killing-minded person has a definate disadvantage in personal growth and development, for that is just so animal mentality. This site is for intellectual and personal vision I thought.

Go back to your into the woods and sing Kumbya,with long beards out in the woods with mulitcolored shirts and wreaths.

Originally posted by Final_Wave

Originally posted by DeusEx
It was a ball or iridium (both radioactive and posionous) and platinum, about 1.7 mm in diameter.

The small metal ball used the poison ricin, highly potent and at the time it was used nearly impossible to detect. The KGB made great use of the umbrella trick and probably assassinated more than we would like to admit using this method.

The KGB actually used the biotoxin Ricin in the umbrella gun, it is an extract from castor beans.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by IBM]

[edit on 11-10-2004 by IBM]

I don't want to say that anything is impossible. There are people out there who can freeze thing to very nearly zero degrees Kelvin. If an ice bullet wouldn't work, why not mercury?

Of course, if you dip a hammer in liquid hydrogen you can smash it to smitherines. Maybe a carbon fiber casing for the bullet that wouldn't shatter when it was slammed into the chamber by the bolt?

What about the temperature of the propellant? CO^2 can be used as a propellant and you have the advantage of stealth. I read about a 9mm CO^2 rifle for special ops purposes.

I'll take the word of the experts that an ice bullet is impossible, but an evaporating bullet may not be out of the question, if price is no object.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Well, the easiest thing to do would be to just stab someone with a really good icicle, hehe....

No evidence, no prints, and if not found real soon, would put off the time of death about two hours...

Of course any real assassin wirth his salt knows that the best assassinations are ones that look like suicides or accidents.

With a gun, of course, you're usually opting for suicide...so there's another option with ice...

First, you capture the victim and drug them up with some fairly untracable muscle relaxers (they do exist) or sedatives...(if need be, you can even match some trace elements to food served as a "last meal" ). Then, you have a carved pedestal made of dry ice (to hold the gun at a believable angle), as well as a piece of dry ice between the hammer of a revolver... You can go somewhere, have an alibi, and then let the dry ice melt (leaves no water), gun goes off, kills victim in chair (after forcing victim to previously fire gun of course, after the relaxants, and in another location...this will give the proper powder burns, etc. and fingerprints), and rest of ice melts into vapor... Looks like the victim shot himself... Especially well if a note is added, but that could be tricky....

Sounds like someone here watches too much Crime TV. That idea should work, ever tried it?

An ice bullet would be nice....

But I can think of numerous reasons why it won't work:

1. Its density is too low. A bullet which is supposed to travel far must be as heavy as possible for a specific cross sectional area. This is called sectional density and it affects the most important factor in the bullet's trajectory (air resistance) besides gravity. A light bullet will lose velocity too quickly.

2. Water is gaseous at the temperatures it experiences during supersonic flight. The shape of the bullet is very important at high velocities. At 900 m/s, a 5.56x45 Nato bullet for instance gets as hot as 200°C at the tip because the air is compressed a lot (this is less extreme at subsonic speeds). The evaporation of the tip would cause the bullet to tumble and miss the target.

3.While in the barrel, the torque that is exerted on the bullet is tremendous. It will be lower for a less dense bullet but still, the grooves are engraved into the bullet's surface. Ice is very brittle and it would shatter immediately and never make it to the muzzle in one piece.

4.The temperature inside the barrel is too high. If you take compressed air, you won't reach high enough muzzle velocities. Let alone the force due to the acceleration.

You could use the ice bullet along with a pneumatic gun at close range and subsonic bullet flight. I think the bullet would make it to the target, but I doubt it would penetrate a skull. The bullet would have to have a shape that is stable by itself since rifling won't be possible, increasing air drag even more. I also doubt it would be accurate up to more than 20 or 30 metres.

If anyone manages to make a working ice bullet, I'd be glad to hear about it

If you're talking about using the bullet for assasination why not use a crossbow and make the bolt out of ice or blood of the same blood group as the target. No heat from a gun to worry about melting the ice/blood. Just a question of making sure the bolt didn't disintergrate on firing and I'm sure with enough testing this could be done.

A bullet made out of a low Group-1 metal (potassium might work) would burst into flames on contact with water, incinerating itself and causing serious damage to the target. The crossbow idea also works, but the best possibility, I think, is a bullet made out of a substance soluble in blood, on its own or together with sand-grain-sized metal powder for more weight.

Although the ice bullet was unsucsessful on another episode they fired a frozen chicken through a few panes of glassand it left a perfect cirlce it seemed to work quite well

I saw the MYTH Buster with the ice bullet good show. But in the same week guess what I saw on CSI? The ice meat bullet was used in that show to kill a person I loss alot of respect in the realism of that show when I saw that so soon after they proved it wouldnt work.


Back to the Myth buster show did anyone see that letter the got from the CIA when the asked about the ice bullet? That letter was shady I wonder if that is a standard reply you get from them spooks.

Originally posted by Technical
Although the ice bullet was unsucsessful on another episode they fired a frozen chicken through a few panes of glassand it left a perfect cirlce it seemed to work quite well

Didnt they find out that that plane windshield they used was not even rated to withstand a bird strike? Which screwed up there whole test.

Has anyone on this little thread stopped to think about the material thier using??? Of course an Ice bullet made from standard H2O would not work, the melting point is way to low....

But, has ANYONE stopped to think about what kind of Ice doesn't just melt away..... DRY ICE anyone... think about it... simply use an insulating layer between the projectile and the powder, and keep it within temp until use.

It takes dry ice awhile to just evaporate away, unless it gets wet....And it can be shaped fairly easily to fit also.

That is one material and method that Jamie and Adam DIDN'T bother to try....

i don't buy everything on myth busters. the show doesn't always evaluate scenarios fairly. they set things up to fail. but thats just my opinion. also i believe an ice bullet would be possible, perhaps use nitrogen or co2 as a propellant instead of primative gun powder.

Im no expert on this kind of thing but what about not using ice but water and using the same idea as a shaped charge munition? It would make a thin point of high velocity water that could penetrate skin. Think about a super soaker on steroids.

Geez guys,
you forget it is dry ice that was used by the CIA in their testing.

Originally posted by cleggy
what would be the point in an ice bullet anyway? how wud it be kept cold in the magazine? what use would it be on a battlefield, some bullets can pass thru wood and thin metal where as an ice bullet wud break on impact

sounds useless to me

ok you could use it to kill someone without anyone else knowing as it leaves no evidence and as for the mag think about lugging around a mini fridge in a combat zone or in the middle of a presidential speech

Originally posted by Saucerat
A better bullet would be a hollow metal round

isin't that the same as a hollowpoint, and thus mushrooms out, or is it a diffrent type?

i dig the mythbusters and all but just cause the pair of them with their tiny team couldn't do it don't mean it can't be done..
the mythbusters are a sight different than some military think tank or some small scale manhatten project type deal.

i would think it could be done.
they can make a nuke but they can't make a melting ice projectile? i'm not buying.

i also think sometimes the mythbusters do set things up to fail.

did anyone see the one where they were firing bullets into the water to see if you could dodge bullets in teh water?
they fired all kinds of rounds, even a .50 cal into the water and ALL the bullets burst into fragments within like 3 feet of the top of the water...
every single one.

i'm thinking water is pretty strong then eh....

what about cryofreezing?
i am thinking something along the lines of this and mind you, i am not smart.

instead of say carving out the shape of a bullet in an ice tray and use that, you use lasers or plasma(probably lazers) to machine out the bullet casting and make it out of some insane material..
get the water going and compress it or something...put it under a lot of pressure and then blast it to instantly freeze it?
then, dip it in something....

you know...go through the motions.
maybe alter the way the rifle fires somehow or alter the barrel so micro bursts of something to cut the heat down would be sprayed on the bullet keeping it 'cool' and then it has say, 5 seconds till it melts after beind fired.

i don't know....all i am using are my thoughts but my brain is telling me there is some sick stuff out there and an ice bullet seems possible.

I'm guessing Lucifer likes the German and Russian languages.

what if it was a large ice bullet from a compressed air gun to prevent it from melting due to the gun powder heat and the bullet was large enough so by the time it hit someone it would melt to right size in the friction while it passes through the air