Special Forces - who's the best?

British SAS and SBS owns all.
and dont deny it, they are the ones who trained most of americas toy special forces.

reply to post by mad scientist[/url]

Couldn't agree more mate. Pamwe Chete. Captain Chris Schulenberg was one of my heros. A one man recce machine.

However, as you have obviously read Pamwe Chete may I respectfully draw your attention to a book called The Elite The story of the Rhodesian Special Air Service - Late C Sqn, 22 SAS.

It was written by the very knowledgeable authoress Barbara Cole and published in South Africa by Three Knights Publishing in 1984 - ISBN 0 620 07420 5. Second edition (updated) ISBN 0 620 07421 5.

The book has been written with first hand information taken from former SAS operatives and from official Rhodesian Army records.

I cannot reccommend it highly enough. If you read this book, you will come across the action where the SAS took on 10,000 insurgents.

Dont care where or which country they trained under it all comes down to the character of the men in the squad.

Got a squad of "highly skilled soldiers" and each of them know there role and trusts there life to the man next to them then there going to do some significant damage against anyone...

Although i think the Foreign Legion Spec Ops (GCP) would be up there...

As said above, each unit has their specialty... and each unit tends to overlap in some section of operational theater.

That said, I think most people would agree that the "best" spec ops are the ones we don't know about. There are plenty of teams that work within the NSA with cherry-picked members from all over the world.

Sec Ops teams that are known... the SAS do a very wide variety of theater operations and generally have a good track record. I have first hand experience force recon and the scope is limited, but they are generally involved in a lot of operations involving many other spec ops branches. I have 2nd hand knowledge of Rangers and SEAL. Rangers are cherry picked for not only their ability to operate in unique situations, but also for brain power and training. SEAL teams... very tough guys, very difficult situations and they tend to do a lot more dirty work that any of us know about.

Mucho respect to all servicemen and women around the world.

PS - In reference to the "knife" thing in this thread...

If you let someone get close enough to you, to stab you, and you are armed with a firearm... you have already lost.

I've got to say that I hate posts like this as they draw me in like a moth to the flame. My main gripe is the post count is always very high and mainly made up of people who have no actual basis for their comments other than something they have read or something their second cousin told them who was National Guardsmen or in the Territorial Army for 5 minutes.

Patriotism always distorts peoples opinions too but one of the key things to remember is that the term 'Special Forces' is a lable which has a different meaning from one country to the next. In the UK for instance, the term is applied ONLY to a unit who is confined to being a 'strategic military asset' as apposed to a 'tactical asset'. The only units in the UK which fit that role are the SAS, SBS and SRR but with the likes of the Pathfinder Platoon and the Brigade Reconnaissance Force's Brigade Patrol Troop RM could easily be eligible to fit the role.

If you look at countries such as the Philippines, Israel and the US, the term SF is somewhat watered down and overlaps into the territory of 'Special Operations'. The kudos of the title allows countries to proclaim a level of supposed sophistication to other countries and 'potential aggressors' weather justified or not (and in many cases it isn't).

If you want to look at this in a neutral capacity, you should look at the success rate of in each thetre of operation weather in green role, black role or hostage rescue and I think that the assessments will be viewed in new eyes and resulting a new Top 10 than that currently exists.

Originally posted by browha
In my opinion, it has to be the british SAS and SBS.

Browha, dont fall into the trap of believing all you read with regards to the UKSF. The SBS were left with red faces after a very embarrassing in the deserts in Western Iraq during the second Iraq War. The incident led to the SBS Commanding Officer and RSM being shouted down by a highly decorated SAS SNCO in a joint post conflict conference/wash-up in Hereford. The claim against them was an utter lack of professionalism in the war zone and very much a 'big time, no', 'show boating' attitude.

As for the SAS, there is and has been for some time a clear disparity between the drills and skills of each of the Sabre Sqn's. One of the Sqns is very much seen as the example for the rest to follow due to their back-to-basics approach and this was led by the mantra of the SNCO mentioned above. The unit has suffered in recent years due to the falling number of attendees on the selection course and claims of a lowering in the standard of troops being brought into the unit, many being much younger than those passing years before but due to the inflated wages in the Private Security market, many troops have left beind ambitions of joining the unit in favour of bumper pay packets.

I think folks need a bit more understanding. Classifying all SEAL teams as one group isn't accurate. Seal Team one and 2 have different missions than seal team 6. 6 is a much more highly trained, smaller and more mobile group. Then you have various CIA, NSA and DEA teams which have former members of teams, Delta, rangers, green berets, swat, SAS, Kampschwimmers, pararescue, combat control, phoques....

But they may just be an elite platoon or boat crew. Someone said they'd prefer to have Delta retrieve a hostage over SEALS. I disagree entirely.

If I had to pick one group as the highest trained and most effective I'd probably go with seal team 6. Spetznatz would be a 2nd choice. Their training methods are far more severe than anyone else. They frequently suffer training fatalities from beatings. They are sick puppies. Killers.

Originally posted by DrJay1975
But they may just be an elite platoon or boat crew. Someone said they'd prefer to have Delta retrieve a hostage over SEALS. I disagree entirely.

If I had to pick one group as the highest trained and most effective I'd probably go with seal team 6. Spetznatz would be a 2nd choice. Their training methods are far more severe than anyone else. They frequently suffer training fatalities from beatings. They are sick puppies. Killers.

You are a victim of your own post on this one, I'm affraid. Seal Team Six (or United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group as they are now know) only participate in CTR warfare in a maritime enviroment, in much the same way as the British SBS.

As for your comment on Spetsnaz, this in a generic term for Russian Special Forces which are now sub-divided into specific units. If you are looking at CRW troops then you should be looking at the unit called 'Alpha Group' and they didnt exactly do a great job during the Beslan school tragedy.

Please be aware that this is an easy mistake and do not believe the hype nor the myth that is generated by these units. Many have a self generated kudos that does not match their ability.

The advent of the 'war on terror' and the post-Cold War years has meant that countries are bogged down with small wars and simmering internal disputes which require the need for specialist troops. Therefore instead of being 'Jack of all trades, masters of none', units are picking up specific roles. The US has implemented this for a good number of years and many countries are following suit.

I'd have to say The US Army's 1st SFOD-D (Delta Force) would be my top choice for special forces. I have read a few books on them and they are truly amazing warriors.

However, Delta wouldn't be my first choice to deploy in a sort of tropical environment. They are the best (in my opinion) when it comes to urban environments and out there in middle east. But for environments like the tropics I would choose the SAS.

I'm not going to read the over 20 pages to see if anyone else has said this...

I am being serious, put 20 of my ole coonhunting, beer drinking buddies together, give them a mission, show them a reward for completing said mission, and see what kind of things 20 good ole boys that know each other so well that they don't need to talk to know what the others are thinking.
We are getting older most of us 45-50 so we are all seasoned and many are or have been in some form of the military.

Throw in their dogs, knowledge of the land, they know better than the animals that live there, and I would give good odds they could challenge, and be very close in the runnings for the survival of the best.

Admittably, I know they are not a special force team, but in a way they/we are.
By knowing that everyone of us had the same kindergarten teacher and can tell you her name, and know every girl, party, hunting trip, DWI, not only did we grow up together but, we became who and what we are because of each other, and our talking, mistakes, and life that we made for ourselves and each other.

Besides any trained team has somewhat known methods of tactics, and that in its self is a fault in any force.

But, hey I don't mean no disrespect to any team, from special forces to good friends, esp those that have served and/or suffered for our ways of life and freedoms!

I feel for all troops in all countries, I just don't agree with the reasons the gov'ts use them, or the way they get used!
They all deserve our respect!

The British SAS are Officially the best SF in the world.

However the Spetsnaz have without a doubt the most grueling training regime and are truly the toughest ones individually, they are taught to love pain.

Though the toughest special forces would undoubtedly be the ones we don;t know of...

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
The British SAS are Officially the best SF in the world.

Hahaha, if you say so.

I disagree with your "official" statement, although I do believe they can be the best in some situations.

Doc Holiday, I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you. I mean no disrespect to you or your pals. I just have a hard time imagining your group of ex-military buddies could take on a group like Delta, the SAS, or even Navy SEALs...

reply to post by ProUSA


Lol, no not my personal opinion but "OFFICIALLY" they have been voted the best Special Forces many a times more then any other.

They have more experience than any other SF in the world. They have the toughest selection process on the planet. They have the most training. They have the longest and most successful combat record. They have trained nearly all western SF in the world. Nearly every SF regiment in the world have been directly modelled upon them. The SAS have invented most SF training methods.

But it is difficult to judge a Special Forces considering most of there missions will not ever be published....

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by ProUSA

 

But it is difficult to judge a Special Forces considering most of there missions will not ever be published....

I agree with you on that, my friend.

I do acknowledge that the SAS developed a lot of SF training methods, and even helped start up "Delta Force" originally. By no means am I saying they aren't versed, in fact I think they are nearly the best. I'm an American (as if it wasn't obvious), so perhaps I'm a bit bias in my choice. But, aren't we all ?

reply to post by ProUSA


Some of them are seals, marines and snipers, the population in our lil town was around 1200 ppl and to needless to say jobs were hard to find, the military was our only way out besides farming our way through a college which was 60 miles away for the closest one.

But yes I agree, we would not win, but would suprise most to say the least.

There is an 18-part or so youtube series on the NZSAS and selection.
Intense is all I can say.
And I thought the British SAS were the last word.
I'm an Aussie. The SASR over here ain't no push over either.

What about the Israeli special forces..? Is there anything known about these guys? I understand that this country excels in many militairy and inteligence services because they need to outsmart their arab neighbours on all levels.

And what about the japanese or chinese guys with their marshal arts tradition and history?

Can it be that there are special forces unknown because they are hand picked from the best around and meant to be kept from the charts?

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
The British SAS are Officially the best SF in the world.

However the Spetsnaz have without a doubt the most grueling training regime and are truly the toughest ones individually, they are taught to love pain.

Though the toughest special forces would undoubtedly be the ones we don;t know of...

Would it not be nice to have an international contest show each 2 or 5 years.....wow that will have a lot of viewers i think.

An American Marine was standing guard while his comrades slept in their patrol base. It was pouring with rain and the Marine was huddled down, trying to light a cigarette. After several attempts, he gave up saying, "This is fcuking sh1t!"

A continent away, a young British squaddie is doing much the same thing and he too gives up and says, "I hate this sh1t!"

Far out at sea, an SBS team swims five miles to shore, beach their kit and patrol another five miles through a swamp to their objective where they establish an obervation point. As the team leader closes his eyes to grab a well earned cat-nap he grins and says, "This is good sh1t!"

A thousand miles away, a SEAL team swims five miles to shore, beach their kit, patrol another five miles through a swamp and tab a further ten miles to their objective, where they establish an ambush. As the killer group sets up, their Team Leader grins saying, "This is really good sh1t!"

An SAS Sabre team conduct a HALO night drop landing ten miles from an enemy coast. They swim the ten miles, establish a cache just off the beach, patrol five miles through a mangrove swamp, hide up during the day and move a further fifty miles to their objective.

They establish their hide and after a quick Chinese Parliament, the sniper pair move out to establish their own hide.

Five days later, the SAS sniper/observer whispers instructions to his shooter who, as he slowly pulls the trigger says, "I love this fcuking sh1t!"




[edit on 22-1-2010 by fritz]