Quite recently on ATS, a conspiracy theory has come to my attention which suggests that American public school students are being systematically and deliberately dumbed down. This theory interested me, and although I have little knowledge of education in the US, I have noticed a similarly worrying trend in my own country, the UK - more specifically, Scotland.

I am in my fourth year of secondary school education, and with my first serious exams approaching, beginning in April and May next year, I have come to the realisation that my more capable classmates and myself have been held back right from the start.

I started school in 1993 at the age of five. The first year of primary school was fairly simple and was barely a step up from nursery school. The following six years consited of little more than finger painting and learning multiplication tables at the rate of one or two different tables each year. Primary school was easy, and arguably it should be easy, to allow children to enjoy their youth. But it was also slow, repetative and boring.

Those who would have been able to excell and learn a lot in their early years were stifled by teachers who were under instruction to bring the whole class down to the level of the least capable students, apparently so that nobody would be "left behind". This system cultivated in me a hatred of school, and an apathy towards work. This eventually proved not to be problematic, but the way in which I was held back has begun to affect my secondary education, and many of my classmates agree.

Everyone in my year has to revise and study coursework for examinations in eight subjects. The courses were crammed in over two years, ( third and fourth year ). The workload has suddenly become much more difficult to balance, and I can't help but think that if I had learned just a little more basic mathematics, English and science in primary school, the curve wouldn't have become so steep closer to exam time.

Clever, even gifted students achieve far less than they could have, because they just couldn't cope with the dramatic increase in work. These people are capable of learning, but they simply haven't been taught enough.

What do you all think? Is this deliberate? Are students of state schools being prevented from achieveing as many qualifications and as high grades as they could? Other than independent learning, which can be difficult for some people, what solutions are there?

And does anyone know what differences exist between private and state schools regarding the subject?

i don't mean to trample on your parade, but it's "Are our children learning" , and from that use of grammar i'd say you answered your own question.

lol..."is our children learning"...

Just look at me... irrevocably screwed because of the Catholic school system. I'm overwhelmed with apathy. I barely get anywhere because the teachers were, as always, keeping the bright kids like me behind in order to give the dumb kids (mostly ones who either shouldn't have been in certain classes or never wanted to be there to begin with) a 'chance to catch up'. Problem: most of these kids couldn't or didn't want to catch up, so I became disinterested with the subject.

As for private schools, it makes sense since if only the rich get the learning, it reinforces a class system where education is a currency instead of a universal right. The NWO and their flunkies get it, while we don't.

DE

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
What do you all think? Is this deliberate? Are students of state schools being prevented from achieveing as many qualifications and as high grades as they could?

I'm not sure it is deliberate, but there's obviously a problem with the education system. You have the same information being packed into the heads of different kids. Each kid works at their own pace. I suppose if a person wants the best education, then they must take it upon themselves to insure success.

sorry,
didn't realize, thats hilarious

It IS diliberate. We ARE being kept dumb. And it's not just the fact that we aren't being taught enough, we are being taught useless subjects. Kids for years have been asking the questions "Why are we doing this?,What does this have to do with anything?, and When are we going to use this later in life?" The fact is,
we learn these things to keep our minds off what is truly important. The things we learn have nothing to do with anything, and we will never use the things we learn EVER in life. We are kept dumb because ignorance is bliss. Notice the kids doing as they're told and who never ask the question why are content. Content but ignorant. They may seem smart by the world's standards but they are blind to the truth along with the majority of the american public. We need to open our eyes and change things.

[Edited on 09/28/03 by jabb]

The herd won't change it, though. That's the problem. here in cnaada, the pass rate for a basic literacy test in grade 10 was something in teh order 56% on the first pass. Craptastic. Half of us can't read for ourselves.

DE

A child's performance in school isn't determined how smart the student is, but how much effort.

I've known some kids that are straight A students, but give them a problem not in the book and they're clueless. A grade doesn't accurately reflect how much teh student knows, but just how hard they work and get their assignments and tests done. You cram for a test, get a A on it the next day, and you don't have to worry about it anymore. The facts from your head vanish. What do you learn from it? Not that much.

All my friends think I'm crazy smart because I'm getting straight A's, know more about teh stuff being taught than the class, know how to solve a rubic's cube, and stuff like that. Really, I don't know all that much. It's just that I work harder than most people and get graded accordingly to it.

My math (algebra 1) class is an example of how students can go bad. I've studied alot of math during th summer, so I'm supposed to be in a class 2 years ahead (the counselors won't listen to me, @#$^). I'm one of teh few students that's getting an A in that class. Almost half the class is failing, which in incredible, because most of the stuff that's being taught everyone's learned the year before. I was helping the teacher passing out the corrected tests (since I always finish my work first, you know why), and I saw what the scores were. The average is 55%. Extremely dissapointing. They were simple equations to be solved like :

2x+1= 5

Alright, learning algebra is very difficult for majority of people, but come on!!!! Those problems were covered the year before, and yet, only half the class knows it. It's not too hard to study for either. No one puts effort into it....

I know some people whose GPA is around 0.5.

[Edited on 11-21-03 by Saucerat]

Part of the problem is that they're trying to build us up to be all-around good students. Not everyone has the capacity to excel at math, or even meet the standard. Same goes with english, hsitory...ect.

I personally think this isn't taken into account. I was lumped in for having above average intelligence in english and history, but I flunked math and got a 52% in physics. However, i virtually taught my class history.

Basic example- the individual is ignored.

DE

Grades DO NOT reflect how smart a person is. How can a single number accurately reflect how a complex brain and personality work? It doesnt. Thats the problem. The people who are truly smart concentrate on one area, not all, these are the true geniuses. Einstein was a genius but I'll bet he couldnt write a correct essay to save his life (not based on facts btw).

Back to the subject. Knowledge for the sake of knowledge. If students dont learn it, who will? You may not use algebra or calculus in life, but some will.

Are they stifling us? Not really, its the teachers that are the problem, School boards and governments have been so hung up on curriculum that they dont care what we really learn, just as long as we make A's and B's. Every year they make more and more budget cuts, so teachers don't even have any paper and we spend a whole class period copying something down. Or maybe making us lug 50 pounds worth of books around, because there too cheap to buy 30 more and make a class set. The teachers today just have no enthusiasm.

So yes, we're learning, but 80% of it will never be used in life is the problem. Once again, knowledge for the sake of knowledge is actually hurtin us.

The really good math and science students come from Asia.

The way they teach it there is differant from the US, according to my dad. Here, they make you take a bunch of courses in every subject. In Hong Kong, you don't have to take every subject. You can either be a artistic or logical person. An artistic person takes history, language, art, music, etc. A logical person takes math, science, stuff like that. Because they're so concentrated in one area, they learn alot more and make more use of their knowledge.

Originally posted by Saucerat


The way they teach it there is differant from the US, according to my dad. Here, they make you take a bunch of courses in every subject. In Hong Kong, you don't have to take every subject. You can either be a artistic or logical person. An artistic person takes history, language, art, music, etc. A logical person takes math, science, stuff like that. Because they're so concentrated in one area, they learn alot more and make more use of their knowledge.

Thats the best way of teaching I've ever heard! I wish the U.K had done that when I was at school. I mean if I hadn't wasted time failing science and maths I could have improved my art and music skills so much more. I would have wanted to do English too though. Its a much more logical approach.

I consider my time in school a pure waste of time. I learned nearly nothing up to the age of 16. I taught myself everything I wanted to know, then got the degrees I wanted, once I was free of the school system.

Originally posted by DeusEx
As for private schools, it makes sense since if only the rich get the learning, it reinforces a class system where education is a currency instead of a universal right. The NWO and their flunkies get it, while we don't.

That's what I was getting at. Those from a more privileged background are getting a real education, and us commoners are being kept in our place. I wouldn't say it had anything to do with an "NWO", but I think you are right about reinforcing the class system.

Originally posted by Zzub I consider my time in school a pure waste of time. I learned nearly nothing up to the age of 16. I taught myself everything I wanted to know, then got the degrees I wanted, once I was free of the school system.

And well done to you. You've proved that independent learing can be more effective than schooling. It's unfortunate however, that you and many others have had to learn what you really need to know on your own. Not everyone is capable of doing as you have done, and they should be catered for by the education system that their parents paid for through taxes, and that they will also eventually pay for.

As for algebra...

"I have never, ever used algebra in my life! I don't know anyone who has ever used algebra! And I would kick the shyte out of anyone who ever tried to use algebra!" - Billy Connoly

[Edited on 22-11-2003 by CiderGood_HeadacheBad]

i find it horrifying and somewhat amusing at the same time that kids in my class have to sound out four and five letter words. public school never taught me anything. quite literally speaking, "Everything I needed to know I learned in Kindergarten." i learned that the teachers were simply in it for the money, there is no passion, no attempt to actually "know" the material. They know what is expected of Them, and nothing more. teaching has become a 9 to 5 (well, 9 to 3) job, and no longer is it about teaching the children, its about keeping the children calm, quiet, controlled, and most of all dumb.

I went to school to become a teacher, and I was disgusted by what I saw in field expereince. I was at a Title 1 school (i.e. schools in low-income areas) and the teachers barely taught. Everything was done by programs. The math program (90 minutes a day) was just read out of a book, with some diagrams drawn on the board. That was it. The teachers had to keep moving everyday, there was no time for them to embellish anything the kids may not understand right away. The reading program also took 90 minutes a day. There was no time for science or social studies lessons. This was all done by the School Board. The teachers hated the programs, but they couldn't do much about it (I suggested they go on strike.) If your school runs a "Move-It Math" program, COMPLAIN! Your child(s) will not learn a single thing.

We just had our first psych midterm, and us first year students got a class high of sixty. Proves the point- we're taught to memorize, not to know, and its killing us. Most of us didn't know the concepts in the least.

DE

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
What do you all think? Is this deliberate? Are students of state schools being prevented from achieveing as many qualifications and as high grades as they could? Other than independent learning, which can be difficult for some people, what solutions are there?

I don't think it's a deliberate attempt to dumb down the nation. It's a direct result of a Government getting into power who have no experience governing and too much experience being politically correct. Therefore veryone's level education is designed not to embarrass the 'weak link' of the class...coz in the PC world everyone has to be equal, even though that means being unfair toward those who are more advanced. It's the same in the armed forces where the physical tests for female soldiers are a whole heap easier than for men - despite the fact that they will both be in the same position on a battlefield and be expected to perform to the same standard. That's the wonder of Labour's equality for ya.

I saw some Labour MP on TV last night crowing about how magnificent it was that under Labour Britain was now third highest in the Global standard of education tables. The irony is, for a loooooooooooong time we were first. Strangely that bypassed him.