It seems like the American government is ready to throw your bill of rights and your constitution down the toilet, and work on their own terms. And whats worse is it seems like the American public "Just don'T give a $#%^." Well, damn, doesn't it occur to most people that recinding all your god given rights and freedoms which are borne in the constitution adn the reasons why you country fought an independence war, is wrong? Don't you care? How did this law get passed? Another crazy aspect is the bulls$#% that is being shovelled down your throats via the media, with fraudulent and sometimes nullified reporting about this. It seems like they don't think a big news story was that America is now the land of the un-free, or free if your white.

jeez i forgot to ask the question, what do you guys think of the patriot act and what do you think needs to be done or undone? Any links here concerning it would be useful, and i suggest a reading of www.michaelmoore.com
his links are prettty decent too, alternative medias etc...Alternative not meaning crackpots either, but meaning alternative to the crap thrown at you by big business owned media

I dont htink this post is in the right catagory but I'll answer it anyway. Why was this law passed? Simple.

A we didn't have a choice. It wasn't up for a vote. Bushey Boy bushed it through rather quickly.

B It was slipped into affect after 9/11 and made to sound good. It's original (doubtful) intent was to assist with catching these so called terrorists that are threatening everything America stands for (yeah right). Now it's already being used outside its original intent. Pretty soon nothing will be secret anymore. I really dont want the Government to have access to the movies I rent, the purchases I make, my medical records...Thats how it's going to end up. Our freedoms will be a distant memory. It's sad but the majority of the public is brainwashed and to stupid to realise whats happening. It's like we're cows just waiting for the food trough to be filled, not realised we're about to get staked in the forehead.

i agree that this might not be the right place to post this but i figure we're talking about the media, nad education and the patriot act takes those freedoms and rights away to some degree, i mean are we really allowed to teach anything. I mean i know we can't teach anything, but what i mean to say is can we teach something that isn't held up as correct and proper in accordance with what the governemtn or media says is ok. A teacher was suspended for showing "Bowling For Columbine" in her class becasue the principle felt it was discussing improper information to the kids concerning the government, but hell, it was just FACTS!!! So i say this is almost the right forum, nad its here now so send in the replies

I think Bowling For Columbine should be required watching for every American. It changed my entire outlook.

Of course we can't teach! Curriculams are established by the schools who are controlled by government. There is no truth to be taught anymore. Only lies. I flipped through the book "lies my teacher told me", VERY interesting. I'd have to say that 60-75% of education nowadays in the public school system is based on lies.

lies my teacher taught me? Who's the author, i'd like to read it. sounds really good

Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong

by James W. Loewen

It is available at your local book retailer.

Originally posted by Garon
I think Bowling For Columbine should be required watching for every American. It changed my entire outlook.

Of course we can't teach! Curriculams are established by the schools who are controlled by government. There is no truth to be taught anymore. Only lies. I flipped through the book "lies my teacher told me", VERY interesting. I'd have to say that 60-75% of education nowadays in the public school system is based on lies.

Did you do any research into the 'facts' presented in "Bowling For Columbine"? Or just take it at face value?
It was a good entertainment piece IMO, but it was bothersome to see that it actually won an Oscar (?) for best documentary, which is was far from being.

Please elaborate. I'd like to know what you're referring too. I found everything in there to be enlightening.

Originally posted by jawapunk
It seems like the American government is ready to throw your bill of rights and your constitution down the toilet, and work on their own terms. And whats worse is it seems like the American public "Just don'T give a $#%^." Well, damn, doesn't it occur to most people that recinding all your god given rights and freedoms which are borne in the constitution adn the reasons why you country fought an independence war, is wrong? Don't you care? How did this law get passed? Another crazy aspect is the bulls$#% that is being shovelled down your throats via the media, with fraudulent and sometimes nullified reporting about this. It seems like they don't think a big news story was that America is now the land of the un-free, or free if your white.

The idea of wartime curtailments of civil liberties is nothing new. The problem with this one, of course, is that this war is a bit ambiguous. regardless, certain things have to be done to protect the nation that swears protection of those God-given rights. Nobody said war was pretty, even on the alleged home front. Especially when the home front has also found itself to be the front line.

Will this time be different? Will the government decide to hold on to its newly imposed restrictions? Time will tell. Would the citizens rise up and demand the government stand down once the threat is gone? Again, time will tell.

Originally posted by Garon
Please elaborate. I'd like to know what you're referring too. I found everything in there to be enlightening.

What I'm basically talking about is how he edited many things together to get his point across. Such as the Heston speeches. The supposed link between the NRA and KKK, being able to buy ammo In Ontario as he purportedly did. A lot of things in the film have been manipulated to support his claims. For the viewe who is uneducated on matters, it's easy to manipulate things and convince them. It's a home run when most people won't actually look into what's presented and see for themselves. If you want a link or two for some of this stuff, lemme know and I'll grab some for you.

how would you know what he edited? do you have access to all of his stock footage? How do you know he edited so heston wouldn't look like more of an idiot. The heston interview i found was pretty straight forward, questions were asked and heston was caught with his pants down because he can't give decent answers and so instead left the room.

or are you talking baout the little drama part with the picture he left outside, i agree that was shaky but as far as facts go, michael moore doesn't fabricate, he gets his facts from the same news sources as the regualr press, he just decides to report things that coporately owned media chooses not too.

anyways, back to the patriot act thing, americans should realize that in enacting this body of legislation, they are changing their way of life so dramatically, that in essence the terrorists have won, the direction that acts like that and perhaps even more stringent ones down the road will take you is exactly the kind of law changing and societal change that should be avoided if America wants to truly show terrorists that they can't change your ways of living. I agree that an upgraded security protocol is needed, but i don't think taking it out on your own citizens is the way to do it.

No, I haven't got access to stock footage, but simple research into the matter shows exactly what I mentioned.
For one, when they show Heston speaking at an NRA Rally in Colorado right after the Columbine shootings he put in pieces of speach that were not from that particular rally.
Also, in Michigan, when it's claimed that he came very shortly after the little girl was killed by the 6 yr old boy. It says he came right after, but it was actually in October, at a politcal rally, seeing as the election was coming up, where the little girl was killed in February.

The KKK and NRA were not both founded in 1871, the year the KKK became a terrorist organization, as presented by Moore.

i'll admit them that at points he'll edit things but heston does say those things and the general message that is being conveyed is absolutely the same. He isn't editing it to put words in peoples mouths i mean heston is speaking the words that are coming out of his mouth. This type of editing is no different than any news oriented piece of work.

You have to admit though that the figures and percentages he gives paints are fairly ugly picture for the US nad their obvious need for gun laws.

I mean i can't remember the exact figures but the nest hihgest gun death total for one year was only a few hundred adn for the states last year or the year before it was over 11,000!!!!!

Those are the core messages he is trying to display and the NRA are displayed because really no matter what heston had to say, the right to bear arms cannot preclude responsible gun laws and control. I mean i'm from Canada, and had no idea that that many guns were owned in this country until i watched that movie. It's alot, nad yet we have a miniscule amount of gun deaths here because we have the proper legislation adn controls. That might not be all of it, maybe the US has a sickness for murdering each other, but i hihgly doubt that, i've known quite a few americans and none of them seemed like deranged gun crazed psychos.

I think all moore is trying to do is try to give reasons in such an inexplicable situation, i mean what is it? anyways good talking with you and i appreciate your difference of opinions and clearly i am talking drunkeness now so i'll stop.

This started as a thread on the patirot act. Now it's a battle between two people about "Bowling for Colombine". Let's get back to the actual topic of this thread, which is neither Moore or Heston (who was a great actor BTW IMHO:cool

The act passed because of sentimental politics after 911. The fact that it takes a step in destroying civil liberties is disturbing. Yes, Thomas, war is not pretty, but to willingly give up your rights, for any reason (and please don't take this the wrong way) is rolling over and being a bitch, and thats not why this country was founded or what it was founded on.

If Bowling for Columbine enlightened you, you have no idea how dark your world really is. The book was written by one of the most politically driven idiots to come across the stage, and I mean it. If you feel enlightened, he has accomplished his mission, which is to warp the thoughts of people with half-truths and outright lies packaged in an entertaining book.

Why did Columbine happen? I'm sure it wouldn't have anything to do with the classes they'd been having, glorifying death and suicide, teaching kids that when you die, you just come back as something else, anyway. Life is cheapened, death and suicide glorified, and then something bad happens. Gee, connect the dots.
But afterward, the liberals who created the situation to begin with scream out for more gun control. A relatively lucid and sane man might see a conspiracy in there.