And Evolution is OUT of the Picture!

oh and i hate to know what were going to evolve into next, I'm going for rocks because thousands of years of most people's brain decay can lead to that.

Originally posted by outsidethemilkglass
oh well i've got to go to dinner, I say that it is much easier to beleive in a higher being than it is to beleive in evolution, the problem with a higher being is it sacrificies the fact that you weren't created by accident and asks the person to revere someone other than themselves (the subconscious bottom line) and it doesn't really matter what I think because that won't convince you guys

do we all look alike then ????

a buckyball is much smaller then a dna string, and when i say much i mean muchhhh, do u also have some serious litt about it ??

Originally posted by jrod
Both sides have fanatics that will do anything to show their side is right, like lying. So there may have been an over zealous scientist or two making something out of nothing with a limited finding, this is not new news and doesnt disprove evolution. Wasnt there some some fanatic creationist that were trying to say they found ancient man footprints next to dinosaur foot prints and it turned out to be a hoax? That case does not disprove God. Use your mind people, Evolution is a very sound theory, even better than the idea that we were created by some great God.

i think the one side, evo, has a bit more to show and 'prove' then the other, like u said..i guess this killed the topic :]

Originally posted by outsidethemilkglass
oh and i hate to know what were going to evolve into next, I'm going for rocks because thousands of years of most people's brain decay can lead to that.

hhaha koel :], although i would like to know !!

OK one example if evolution is a sound theory.

Crabs. crabs have been around in various forms since the same time things meant to of crawled out the sea. crabs are among few gilled animals that can survive quite a while out of water, so why didnt they evolve lungs.

and at its most ridiculous. birds, darwinists would argue evolved from reptiles. what happened there then two t-rexs lay an egg and out popped a chicken. sorry but to me when two animals get together and have a baby it is still the same animal. even crossbreeding artificial or otherwise still produces the same genus, take when scientists crossed a tiger with a lion and produced the liger.. it was still a cat.

All the skeletal records and fossils without exception prove that different animals existed over a long period of time. nowhere is there a record of one animal turning into another, either slowly over a period of millions of years or instantly out of nothing.

so as the most feasible I think the bible has the edge. and who's to say it wasnt aliens tinkering after all there is a "recorded alien visitation in the bible" maybe it was them coming down to check the fruits of their labours

Originally posted by Ozzie
OK one example if evolution is a sound theory.

Crabs. crabs have been around in various forms since the same time things meant to of crawled out the sea. crabs are among few gilled animals that can survive quite a while out of water, so why didnt they evolve lungs.

and at its most ridiculous. birds, darwinists would argue evolved from reptiles. what happened there then two t-rexs lay an egg and out popped a chicken. sorry but to me when two animals get together and have a baby it is still the same animal. even crossbreeding artificial or otherwise still produces the same genus, take when scientists crossed a tiger with a lion and produced the liger.. it was still a cat.

All the skeletal records and fossils without exception prove that different animals existed over a long period of time. nowhere is there a record of one animal turning into another, either slowly over a period of millions of years or instantly out of nothing.

so as the most feasible I think the bible has the edge. and who's to say it wasnt aliens tinkering

after all there is a "recorded alien visitation in the bible" maybe it was them coming down to check the fruits of their labours

damn i hate myself for still being awake :]..maybe more people do ?
Well evoluion, evolution is the not the process of one animal turning into another. It all started when we where like bacteria, we might have adopt other single cell organims to form a multicellular organism, even nowadays there are bacteria, virusses, small forms of life wich are very well adapted to there enviroment...when these multicellular creatures evolved the formed a lott of different life forms, like we know em, birds, reptiles, apes, humans, fish...they all are adapted to their envoirement in the best way possible..so in the beginging there was already a very diverse pool of species, some are more adated to life in the woods, some to the water..from these species better adapted species eveloved, to make the story short, ape to man..we all have our nice in nature. one cant life without the other [ in the early days] and they all evolved to be the best at what they are..there still are monkeys, theres still are crabs and the dinos are gone..
crabs dindt evolve lungs cause they dont need em, they life in the water..so..they dont need to breath with longs..why should they evolve em ? never one animal turned into in other because its impossible. the changes are to big so they cant evolve to a diff species. evo goes gradually, slowly, very slowly although it can also goes faster if the circumstances call for it. But never as big as going from one species into an other..the pool of wich nature could choose from was big from the begining. creatures evolved lungs cause they crawled onto the land, and could breath better with lungs, then they evolved feet, cause on land thats better blah blah, after the first single cel organims evolved to multi there has been a big differcity in organism..each adapted to there envoirement in the best way possible, if not adapted they die..

plz tell me about this alien thing and the bible. I dont know the bible that well..
So, what changed that made dinosaurs fly? Good question (if you asked it).
The development of a wing-to-body weight ratio that favored flight is the reason. To be a reductionist, precursors to birds slowly evolved wings, or coverings of their upper limbs, that enabled them to elevate their bodies off the ground. When this was originally postulated, two theories were offered to explain how birds gained the ability to fly. They were the ground up theory and the tree down theory. The prior stated that dinosaurs began as runners that were successful in leaping large distances and gliding/coasting to a safe landing. This enabled them to evade predators/find food faster, etc. and the trait propagated. The latter theory posits that tree climbing dinosaurs evolved mechanisms to glide from trees or other elevations to some distance away from that spot, landing on the ground. While the latter is more attractive than the prior on the surface level, the prior theory is most likely the correct theory. I don't know if it is codified, however, and it may still be subject to intense debate. ..
we still have the 'flying' squirrels :]]]]]

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

Originally posted by jozuph
a buckyball is much smaller then a dna string, and when i say much i mean muchhhh, do u also have some serious litt about it ??

Fullerene molecules have a diameter similar to that of the DNA double helix.

Originally posted by Ozzie
OK one example if evolution is a sound theory.

Crabs. crabs have been around in various forms since the same time things meant to of crawled out the sea. crabs are among few gilled animals that can survive quite a while out of water, so why didnt they evolve lungs.

and at its most ridiculous. birds, darwinists would argue evolved from reptiles. what happened there then two t-rexs lay an egg and out popped a chicken. sorry but to me when two animals get together and have a baby it is still the same animal. even crossbreeding artificial or otherwise still produces the same genus, take when scientists crossed a tiger with a lion and produced the liger.. it was still a cat.

All the skeletal records and fossils without exception prove that different animals existed over a long period of time. nowhere is there a record of one animal turning into another, either slowly over a period of millions of years or instantly out of nothing.

so as the most feasible I think the bible has the edge. and who's to say it wasnt aliens tinkering

after all there is a "recorded alien visitation in the bible" maybe it was them coming down to check the fruits of their labours

Plus for sexual reproductions, two identical mutated organisms of the opposite sex have to appear at a distance close enough to reproduce. The odds of that happening are pretty low. Evolutionnist Gould calls them "hopeful monsters", which doesn't help their case really.

Originally posted by Zzub
I'm sorry, but one fake skull and a made up story will not change the fact that evolution not only exists, but is the only logical explanation.

Evolution still makes more sense.

$0.02

I agree 100%. It still makes a hell of alot more sense than an old book full of fairy tales, and a "big man in the sky". Evolution is quite evident in many animal species. Why would we be any different?

[Edited on 11-19-2003 by Satyr]

Im sorry but i disagree, for millions of years bacteria were perfectly suited to their enviorment, so why change. I dont believe fish came out of the water and grew lungs because they would of been well dead before that had a chance of happening and as for growing lungs in the water why bother as they already had the pefect breathing apparatus. it just dosent figure. even if the argument used that water was drying up, icing up or turning stagnant, still dont see how water breathing creatures became air breathing creatures. even today sea molluscs (another creature thats been around since the earliest times) have to have see water within their shells to enable their gills to work. even the sheer diversity of the animals and plants to me proves evolution was not the cause. because, if it were creatures fitting their eniorment and adapting I dont believe there would of been that range.

Originally posted by Helioform

Originally posted by jozuph
a buckyball is much smaller then a dna string, and when i say much i mean muchhhh, do u also have some serious litt about it ??

Fullerene molecules have a diameter similar to that of the DNA double helix.

before u claimed : 60 carbon atoms (the famous "buckyball] now go and count the amount of carbon atoms in dna, dna contains carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and phospor. The dna in a single cell may be composed of billions of atoms. These are arranged in a complex chain with four small nucleic acids (adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine) in carefully arranged ordered pairs. Does this look like a bucky ball like molecule ???
The deoxyribose sugar of the DNA backbone has 5 carbons and 3 oxygens per base, our chromosome consist of euhh coded around 45 million bases, while the whole geome is around 3 billion bases...wich is containt in 23 pairs of chromosomes..mmm size aint shyt right...
three billion times 5, ....... aint 60 right ? no its around 15 billion carbon atoms..add the other atoms [wich size if sometimes even bigger then a C] and u wont sleep 2night..still iam interested in some serious litt about this topic..
[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

Ozzie, it's quite apparent that you don't even understand the concept of evolution. It's a very gradual thing. It has nothing to do with cross breeding or any sudden change in any living thing.

Originally posted by Ozzie
so as the most feasible I think the bible has the edge. and who's to say it wasnt aliens tinkering

after all there is a "recorded alien visitation in the bible" maybe it was them coming down to check the fruits of their labours

Ozzie have you ever read Darwin's Origin of Species? It is a great book I highly recomend it.

I see Darwinian evolution in pretty much all life forms I see. I still believe that God may be out there and is responsible for how we evolved. Your examples of evolutionary flaws were very weak and did not make a point. Understand the concept of evolution before you attack it.

A basic mutation in bacteria could easily be triggered by some UV radiation.

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jrod]

Originally posted by jrod

Originally posted by Ozzie
so as the most feasible I think the bible has the edge. and who's to say it wasnt aliens tinkering

after all there is a "recorded alien visitation in the bible" maybe it was them coming down to check the fruits of their labours

Ozzie have you ever read Darwin's Origin of Species? It is a great book I highly recomend it.

I see Darwinian evolution in pretty much all life forms I see. I still believe that God may be out there and is responsible for how we evolved. Your examples of evolutionary flaws were very weak and did not make a point. Understand the concept of evolution before you attack it.

A basic mutation in bacteria could easily be triggered by some UV radiation.

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jrod]

not only in bacteria :]]]

Originally posted by jozuph

Originally posted by Helioform

Originally posted by jozuph
a buckyball is much smaller then a dna string, and when i say much i mean muchhhh, do u also have some serious litt about it ??

Fullerene molecules have a diameter similar to that of the DNA double helix.

before u claimed : 60 carbon atoms (the famous "buckyball] now go and count the amount of carbon atoms in dna, dna contains carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and phospor. The dna in a single cell may be composed of billions of atoms. These are arranged in a complex chain with four small nucleic acids (adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine) in carefully arranged ordered pairs. Does this look like a bucky ball like molecule ???
The deoxyribose sugar of the DNA backbone has 5 carbons and 3 oxygens per base, our chromosome consist of euhh coded around 45 million bases, while the whole geome is around 3 billion bases...wich is containt in 23 pairs of chromosomes..mmm size aint shyt right...
three billion times 5, ....... aint 60 right ?
[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

DNA helix diameter is around 2 nanometers, a buckyball is around 1 nanometer. It's similar enough to be considered as a quantum object.

Originally posted by Helioform

Originally posted by jozuph

Originally posted by Helioform

Originally posted by jozuph
a buckyball is much smaller then a dna string, and when i say much i mean muchhhh, do u also have some serious litt about it ??

Fullerene molecules have a diameter similar to that of the DNA double helix.

before u claimed : 60 carbon atoms (the famous "buckyball] now go and count the amount of carbon atoms in dna, dna contains carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and phospor. The dna in a single cell may be composed of billions of atoms. These are arranged in a complex chain with four small nucleic acids (adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine) in carefully arranged ordered pairs. Does this look like a bucky ball like molecule ???
The deoxyribose sugar of the DNA backbone has 5 carbons and 3 oxygens per base, our chromosome consist of euhh coded around 45 million bases, while the whole geome is around 3 billion bases...wich is containt in 23 pairs of chromosomes..mmm size aint shyt right...
three billion times 5, ....... aint 60 right ?
[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

DNA helix diameter is around 2 nanometers, a buckyball is around 1 nanometer. It's similar enough to be considered as a quantum object.

again, iam not talking nonsence here, how can 15 billion carbon atoms alone [not even concidering the other atoms] resemble the size of a 60 carbon buckyball ?? i mean it might be possible that uve mistaken something but even a 5 carbon and 3 oxygens atom is not much smaller then 60 carbons [not sure bout this :]..but still there is no cell that contains only one mol of dna..none..i aint even counting the attached bases wich size we also should not forget :]]..again i beg u, show me some serious data aka litterature bout this...not just what u think :]]

Originally posted by Ozzie
OK one example if evolution is a sound theory.

Crabs. crabs have been around in various forms since the same time things meant to of crawled out the sea. crabs are among few gilled animals that can survive quite a while out of water, so why didnt they evolve lungs.

and at its most ridiculous. birds, darwinists would argue evolved from reptiles. what happened there then two t-rexs lay an egg and out popped a chicken. sorry but to me when two animals get together and have a baby it is still the same animal. even crossbreeding artificial or otherwise still produces the same genus, take when scientists crossed a tiger with a lion and produced the liger.. it was still a cat.

All the skeletal records and fossils without exception prove that different animals existed over a long period of time. nowhere is there a record of one animal turning into another, either slowly over a period of millions of years or instantly out of nothing.

so as the most feasible I think the bible has the edge. and who's to say it wasnt aliens tinkering

after all there is a "recorded alien visitation in the bible" maybe it was them coming down to check the fruits of their labours

thank you! yes i think this happend, yes, evolotion took us some of the way, but they have PROVEN that theres noway of us evolving as fast as we did...

but noone is sure, so noone can be "right" untell "god" or "aliens" or we find the "real" "link" even if we do find the "real" link it still dose not disprove "god"

yes, it dose seam "to me, a 16 yearold high schooler" that something "aliens"? mesed with the aps hear, and ended up with us,


then we have this "jesus" come down and "check" but who knows if or what jesus was? then we have moses "spelling" talk to a "god" and "lightning" writes the 10 commandments??

anyway all just theayes on some proof anyway just injoy life


PS: if this post has been coverbefore, dont kill me i dint feel like reading 4 pages

How much more do you need to know the Truth? Is the next that the apes are degenerated humans? We're not even close to being equal in design. Any designer would know that if he really looked at it. The terrestrial species are designed by God. Shaped to show his Greatness. Shaped to help us become wise. That all species seems to have the same source, should help us search for the Creator in ourself, not to search for the Man in the beasts. Evolution has placed the dragons in the sky, where they don't belong. The Tyrannosaurus was destroyed. It wasn't blessed with wings!

Blessings,
Mikromarius