John Shelby Spong's got some interesting stuff to say on that point Jezebel, in his book
" Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism"

anyone else here read it?

Not red all of this thread, but noticed the comment that "you are not programmed from birth to be gay" which is total #.
There are homosexual male animals (specifically mentioning males here because it seems that most bigots don't consider women capable of being homosexual, the idiots) that do mount and pentrate other male animals. They have a physical difference to heterosexual male animals in their brains.
If your god dislikes gay people then he's a #ing evil bastard, because he puts the desire into a person then says "you can't do this".
So yeah, if he doesn't like it, then he can go # himself.


DYSWIDT?

Isn't this getting a little bit old? James the Lesser, Majestica, and myself got into this argument months ago with Tassadar, Freemason, and JediMaster. Why has this dragged on for so long?

I really don't think that God gives two diddly #s if a person is gay or not, there are only 2 things Jesus told us to do which were, Love God with all your heart mind soul etc, and love your Neighbor as yourself. So love eliminates everything else rendering sin 'null and void' whatever it is you'd call sin

[Edited on 20-11-2003 by Sapphire]

Originally posted by Sapphire
I really don't think that God gives two diddly #s if a person is gay or not, there are only 2 things Jesus told us to do which were, Love God with all your heart mind soul etc, and love your Neighbor as yourself. So love eliminates everything else rendering sin 'null and void' whatever it is you'd call sin. And your sins are no longer counted against you. But i don't believe they ever were.

[Edited on 20-11-2003 by Sapphire]

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Ok so you want me to think for myself

This is my beleif on the matter and if you don't like it then thats fine you are entitled to your opinion just like I am to mine. Being gay is not pre-programed into your brain from birth no-way no-how. You may be born with a desire for the opposite sex but the choice to act on that desire is what makes you gay. That's right a choice!

as a heterosexual you cannot declare this. You don't have the knowledge. You cannot say. I knew when I was 6 I was gay. That's the god's honest truth. I tried the other way of life to appease my family, I went to psychologists...and in the end the psychologist said I was a well adjusted gay teen. It was my mother that was deemed to have the problem. Year's later, when faced with losing her child, my mother decided to open her mind and heart. We went to PFLAG together. She didn't want to intimately know what my life was about but she did want me to be happy. Year's later, she watch Torchsong Trilogy and saw how a parent can be oppressive and judgemental. She was genuinely sorry. She loves me with an open heart and we couldn't be more different. But she understands I'm wired this way and wouldn't want her child trying to live a life of a lie and never being happy. I didn't want her or my family to be uncomfortable, but ultimately all of them said I should be who I am. They love me for that. Just like I love them for being who they are...unapologetically. Consider it as a possibility. You don't have to like it...you don't have to believe god condones it...but believe that I'm a creature of god, I am this way and I am happy. I don't hurt anyone. I pay my taxes. I love my family. I love my country. I'm stable. And if I'm wrong...I'll pay the price eventually...but I shouldn't be made to pay a price here. Particularly when I do many things to contribute to a positive, loving society. Gays are really not all that different if you leave the bedroom out of it.

In nature, there are doccumented occurences of homosexuality. Dolphins, chimps, gorrilas, dogs, and apes do engage in homosexual activities amongst each other. This is not a rare occurrence and it is not due to the lack of females in the area. I am not gay but I also do not believe gays or anyone else should be persecuted for their beliefs.

Being gay is a natural thing. Homophobia is programmed into people and it's wrong.

Originally posted by daniel191159
In nature, there are doccumented occurences of homosexuality. Dolphins, chimps, gorrilas, dogs, and apes do engage in homosexual activities amongst each other. This is not a rare occurrence and it is not due to the lack of females in the area. I am not gay but I also do not believe gays or anyone else should be persecuted for their beliefs.

good, like i said before..

As I understand Soddom and Gommorah were destroyed

not only cause of gays but cause of people really steppin

over the line. For example 20 marriages and devorices

for one person. Also having sex behind every corner.

Originally posted by earthtone
Being gay is a natural thing. Homophobia is programmed into people and it's wrong.

Gay a natural thing?

OMG

so when did this natural thing start?

look at the history is there as much gays their as right

now?

No there is more gays right now cause people give them

benifets and other things.

For example if you are not gay and want to put you

boy/girl friend under your name on taxes to get a

deduction you cant.

but if you are gay you can put your gay friend under up

to get a tax deduction.

Also if a gay calls you straight does he get punished?

NO

what if you call a gay a gay will you get punished?

YES!

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by earthtone
Being gay is a natural thing. Homophobia is programmed into people and it's wrong.

Gay a natural thing?

OMG

so when did this natural thing start?

look at the history is there as much gays their as right

now?

No there is more gays right now cause people give them

benifets and other things.

For example if you are not gay and want to put you

boy/girl friend under your name on taxes to get a

deduction you cant.

but if you are gay you can put your gay friend under up

to get a tax deduction.

Also if a gay calls you straight does he get punished?

NO

what if you call a gay a gay will you get punished?

YES!

You complete #ing retard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Look at Greek and Roman literature you moron.

Don't come into this goddamn argument saying that there were less gay people in the past without DOING YOUR #ING RESEARCH!

Deny ignorance, moron.

Oh and I've called many a gay person gay and you know what? THEY DON'T GIVE A FLYING #!

Bigots really, really anger me.

Please educate me.

how many gays were in rome?

are you gay?

Originally posted by Ğany

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by earthtone
Being gay is a natural thing. Homophobia is programmed into people and it's wrong.

Gay a natural thing?

OMG

so when did this natural thing start?

look at the history is there as much gays their as right

now?

No there is more gays right now cause people give them

benifets and other things.

For example if you are not gay and want to put you

boy/girl friend under your name on taxes to get a

deduction you cant.

but if you are gay you can put your gay friend under up

to get a tax deduction.

Also if a gay calls you straight does he get punished?

NO

what if you call a gay a gay will you get punished?

YES!

Bigots really, really anger me.

Nice on Dany. Good to see someone backing up the truth. Russian, I think you'll find, I f you weren't to scared to have gay friends, that people actually don't mind being called Gay because ermm...thats what they are! And as Dany rightly said, homosexuality can be traced right through history. Socrates was gay. I mean the only reason it is flourishing more now is becuase we live in a more free society than ever before (apparently) and people are allowed to be gay which is exactely the way it should be.

EDIT: I am in fact not gay but would have no problem telling you if I was. Two of my closest friends are.


[Edited on 023030p://666 by earthtone]

Originally posted by earthtone

I mean the only reason it is flourishing more now is becuase we live in a more free society than ever before (apparently) and people are allowed to be gay which is exactely the way it should be.



[Edited on 023030p://666 by earthtone]

People are gay cause this world is going crazy and this

is saying that it will soon end.


"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation..."
Matthew 24:15

This proves my point.

This says why thw world will come to an end.

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by earthtone

I mean the only reason it is flourishing more now is becuase we live in a more free society than ever before (apparently) and people are allowed to be gay which is exactely the way it should be.



[Edited on 023030p://666 by earthtone]

People are gay cause this world is going crazy and this

is saying that it will soon end.


"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation..."
Matthew 24:15

This proves my point.

This says why thw world will come to an end.

No, people are gay because they are gay.
People are bigots because the world is going crazy.
By the way, that verse proves nothing.
In fact, I could take that verse like this:


There's a game called Vampire the Masquerade, and one called Werewolf the Apocalypse. In these games there is a certain creature called an Abomination, who is a vampirised werewolf.
So, I could say that a vampirised werewolf will stand in Jeruselam and the statement would fit.
So there.

Originally posted by BeingWatchedByThem
the reason there are more gay men around is because mothers that dont breast feed, give their kids that SOY CRAP! its got estrogen in it and effects the growing infants brain, *edit* and suppresses testosterone *end edit*

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by BeingWatchedByThem]

[Edited on 22-11-2003 by namehere]

So many paranoid homophobes around here man. People have got to learn to accept things that are different to themselves. Lashing out at minorities is ignorance.

Originally posted by earthtone
So many paranoid homophobes around here man. People have got to learn to accept things that are different to themselves. Lashing out at minorities is ignorance.

Precisely.
It doesn't affect these people one iota if some person they've never met is gay but they'd still deny them their preference of partner.
I Hate biogts, I really do.

What about hermaphrodites, intersexed people, people born neither male nor female? How does that fit into God's plan? Since only male and female sex is ok according to some of y'all where does that put these people? You are not right with God if you condemn somebody because of their sexual orientation.