Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by baked
Marrige is a holy sacrement, in the eyes of god!

You were doing alroght up to that last one.
No. Marriage is a holy sacrament in the eyes of the church.

Unless you can see through God's eyes I reckon you ain't qualified to state what's holy through 'em. You can only hazard a guess.

People were getting married long before Christianity came along. So who the hell are they to claim marriage as their own!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by baked
If you believe god does not exist then fine, thats your belief.

I believe he does! Does that hurt you?

Nah dude. I believe that he exists too. .
But I don't believe that the church necessarily gets it right all the time.
It's the same thing - each to his own. My point is that it is your view that marriage is a holy sacrament, but that you got that view from the church and that doesn't mean that it can't be argued with.
You can only guess that you're right and hope for the best. Same as the rest of us.

BlackJackal :
Well first off how about if I decided to just get drunk every night in my own house because it felt ok. Its perfectly legal to get hosed every night for no other reason than it feels ok. Then lets say I am drunk and I am an angry drunk is it then ok that I slap my wife? If not then doing what feels right is a completely useless argument for being gay because I did what felt right in the begining and since I was drunk I slapped my wife.

Yes indeed we have too many people on this place called earth but does that make it ok to limit every couple in the world to just two offspring and then kill the rest like China does? No, it does not so then why can this be used as an argument for people being gay?

Yes, being gay does break the law of nature because the law of nature is simple: survival of the fittest and the procreation of your species.

If it is bad to use something that cannot be proven for an arguement then this discussion should end right now. You cannot prove that the bible and god do not exsist just like I cannot prove that they do. You cannot prove that the big bang happened and I cannot prove that it did not. You also can't prove that everone in the universe is not is a small ball on someones desk.

euh no its not good to slap your wife, its not good to slap anybody. Never said this, but if u wanna get drunk every night thats fine...i said u can do what u want if u feel good about it, its not god to judge this, this has nothing to do with if its moral or not. Thats for u to decide, maybe u find it good to slap..iam not gonna throw in the bilble and say its good, some say god makes em slap there wives..u see..that your own morality

That there are 2many people, i dindt used it as a argument to say that being gay is ok, its just a nice side effect..

There are no laws of nature in the gays story, laws of natrue are things that are able of not able according to certain laws of nature. It is possible to be gay, its not possible for a apple to fall upwards from a tree..i said its againt the genetic laws [if there are any] but who cares bout that, thats your own decision..in your words this means that everybody should multiply and everybody who doesnt is wrong and in the word of our us patriot will feel the concequence..thats stupid right ?

I dindnt say u can not use it to argue, but to attack people with it is not good..I dont have to prove that god doesnt exist, i dont care, i never saw him, never had any concequences for not believing nor for not following his rules..like anybody. I said its a believe, people who dont believe in it have a just as nice life as people who do believe, or bad life :]] again, i said if i use it to justify or dejustify thing u better make shure that its true, so give prove then..if u just believe and let other people not believe and life their lifes the way they want, ok then who needs prove..thats why i dont need prove hehe

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

So for the people that say its ok to be gay as long as you don't impose that on me.

So lets suppose that you were a child adopted by a gay family and raised to be gay.

That child was brought up to be gay. So tell me is it ok for a gay couple to raise an adopted child to be like them?

That child was brought up to be gay. So tell me is it ok for a gay couple to raise an adopted child to be like them?

no i dont think gay couples should be allowed to adopt

Originally posted by BlackJackal
So for the people that say its ok to be gay as long as you don't impose that on me.

So lets suppose that you were a child adopted by a gay family and raised to be gay.

That child was brought up to be gay. So tell me is it ok for a gay couple to raise an adopted child to be like them?

If society says it's OK (not your government but your society), then it's OK.
It doesn't necessarily follow that just because a child is bought up by gay parents that he will turn out gay himself or become a gay militant.

come on, iam doing my best here..i just said, u should people let em be the way they want to be..so n0, its not good to raise your child being gay..and its not right to raise your child being a believer in god neither. its not good to make people believe what u want, its not good to tell anybody what the have to be..its up to themselfs to decide..its horrible to raise kids and frighten them with sentences like, if u dont do this god will punish u..and that the way it goes..and that why u believe, i guess but i might be wrong on this part..hehe

Originally posted by sirCyco
That child was brought up to be gay. So tell me is it ok for a gay couple to raise an adopted child to be like them?

no i dont think gay couples should be allowed to adopt

i think its ok,. whats against it ? why should straight people be able to adopt and gays not,,its just as bad to raise your kid to be hetero, if he want to be gay, let him of her..
brr u gonna bring out the gun again sir ?

Originally posted by jozuph
come on, iam doing my best here..i just said, u should people let em be the way they want to be..so n0, its not good to raise your child being gay..and its not right to raise your child being a believer in god neither. its not good to make people believe what u want, its not good to tell anybody what the have to be..its up to themselfs to decide..its horrible to raise kids and frighten them with sentences like, if u dont do this god will punish u..and that the way it goes..and that why u believe, i guess but i might be wrong on this part..hehe

I know what you are saying here and I respect it very much but I find it to be difficult to accomplish. If my wife and I have a child and bring it into this world it will undoubtfully see that I go to church and worhship god. It will see that I love my wife, a female, and more than likely seek a woman to love himself. What am I supposed to do just make sure that my child never sees me with my wife and never knows that I go to church. Should I take my child to as many different religions as I can even though I don't believe in them to give my child a good number to choose from.

It is quite impossible to shield your child from who you are. If a child is brought up in a gay home I am willing to beat they will turn out gay even if no pressure is placed on them. They will do it because that is what they feel comfortable with.

I never said that marriage was a Christian thing.

I only said what I believe, that it was sacred in the eyes of God.

And yes, it's a sacrement of the church which is subject to error.

Some may dissagree but, the church has errored plenty.

Like noted, I can't speak for god! I only believe what I think is right.

For the record, I denounced organised religion a long time ago.

I was refused by the Catholic Church to be married

because my wife to be was not Catholic.

So I told the Catholic church and it's Hyprocracy to F#@k
themselves.

Organised religion is all about money, not god.

Matthew 24:4-5 warns, “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ and shall deceive many.”

This tells me that many will speak lies in his name, and speak for him lies.

In other words his true intention and messege has been perverted by the greedy church.


I follow no church, just what I feel is right in my soul.

If being gay is wrong, (i'm noone to judge) then I believe God will forgive it.

Just like he promised to forgive all our sins.

Once again, thats just my belief, not shoving it down anyones throat.

Im just putting it on the table.

brr u gonna bring out the gun again sir ?

you talkin to me?

Being gay is not ok. I usually dont even read these gay threads, but I decided to put my 2 cents in.

First keep in mind that there is a evil agenda. The shadow government, the ones controlling governments around the world. They want you to think its ok to be gay. They want you to think if your a feminine male that you were born in the wrong body and you should be with another male or visa versa if your female. They have flooded our TVs radios and newspapers saying it is ok. It seems like every sitcom has atleast one gay character in it. The churches are accepting gay marriges. Our next president wont be caught with monica, he will be caught with another man.

Why do they want to turn you gay? There are many reasons. They want to keep us fighting each other. They keep us at war, they pit white against black, religion against religion, democrats against republicans, men against women and gays against straights. They made the AIDs virus just for you gays. Why would they have you think its ok to be gay and then infect you with a deadly virus. Population control !!!

Is being gay a genetic disorder? Yes in some cases it may be, but there are many other reasons people become gay, not all are born that way. The foods we eat, the medications we trust our doctors to give us, that we think are ok to take, the air we breathe, the education our children get in our school systems, in the churches, in our TV and movies. It all adds up. The one thing I feel is affecting people mostly is the changing times. The earths vibration has changed and so has ours. There is a balance between Masculinity and femininity. That has changed, so men are becoming more feminine and women more masculine. That has nothing to do with being gay. It's ok to be a masculine female or a feminine male. It does not mean you should have sex with another person of the same sex.

The point of this post is that there is an evil agenda. They want us to fail as christians and keep fighting and arguing. They want us on the darkside fighting like animals, not full of the love of God.

The flesh is weak, but the Love of God will keep us strong.

icono

Originally posted by BlackJackal

Originally posted by jozuph
come on, iam doing my best here..i just said, u should people let em be the way they want to be..so n0, its not good to raise your child being gay..and its not right to raise your child being a believer in god neither. its not good to make people believe what u want, its not good to tell anybody what the have to be..its up to themselfs to decide..its horrible to raise kids and frighten them with sentences like, if u dont do this god will punish u..and that the way it goes..and that why u believe, i guess but i might be wrong on this part..hehe

I know what you are saying here and I respect it very much but I find it to be difficult to accomplish. If my wife and I have a child and bring it into this world it will undoubtfully see that I go to church and worhship god. It will see that I love my wife, a female, and more than likely seek a woman to love himself. What am I supposed to do just make sure that my child never sees me with my wife and never knows that I go to church. Should I take my child to as many different religions as I can even though I don't believe in them to give my child a good number to choose from.

It is quite impossible to shield your child from who you are. If a child is brought up in a gay home I am willing to beat they will turn out gay even if no pressure is placed on them. They will do it because that is what they feel comfortable with.

so ? doesnt this prove my point ? and sorry i have to turn it against you, what if i beat my wife...my kid would think its ok..its bad but still, thats why we should let everybody be what they want to be..if they bad, then they bad and will be punished, not by god [tell me one person that god punished, thou shall not kill euhhhhh ?] but by law, laws made by us, humans on a moral ground

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

Originally posted by sirCyco
brr u gonna bring out the gun again sir ?

you talkin to me?

yepp

Originally posted by iconoclast
Being gay is not ok. I usually dont even read these gay threads, but I decided to put my 2 cents in.

First keep in mind that there is a evil agenda. The shadow government, the ones controlling governments around the world. They want you to think its ok to be gay. They want you to think if your a feminine male that you were born in the wrong body and you should be with another male or visa versa if your female. They have flooded our TVs radios and newspapers saying it is ok. It seems like every sitcom has atleast one gay character in it. The churches are accepting gay marriges. Our next president wont be caught with monica, he will be caught with another man.

Why do they want to turn you gay? There are many reasons. They want to keep us fighting each other. They keep us at war, they pit white against black, religion against religion, democrats against republicans, men against women and gays against straights. They made the AIDs virus just for you gays. Why would they have you think its ok to be gay and then infect you with a deadly virus. Population control !!!

Is being gay a genetic disorder? Yes in some cases it may be, but there are many other reasons people become gay, not all are born that way. The foods we eat, the medications we trust our doctors to give us, that we think are ok to take, the air we breathe, the education our children get in our school systems, in the churches, in our TV and movies. It all adds up. The one thing I feel is affecting people mostly is the changing times. The earths vibration has changed and so has ours. There is a balance between Masculinity and femininity. That has changed, so men are becoming more feminine and women more masculine. That has nothing to do with being gay. It's ok to be a masculine female or a feminine male. It does not mean you should have sex with another person of the same sex.

The point of this post is that there is an evil agenda. They want us to fail as christians and keep fighting and arguing. They want us on the darkside fighting like animals, not full of the love of God.

The flesh is weak, but the Love of God will keep us strong.

icono

ow my G... how ignoraNT can u be, secret agenda, christians, man wake up.
what if i say that your secret agenda wants us all to be christians ? and live in fear of god..dont they use that to control you ? your fear of concequences, going to hell..sounds better then the gay thig right..

The world is way over populated, if some people want to be gay and get out of the gene pool they have my blessings(i know some gay couples male and female make arrangements to have children which is fine, it is way better than self proclaimed Chritians who have like 10 children because they do not believe in birth control)

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jrod]

Originally posted by jozuph

Originally posted by sirCyco
brr u gonna bring out the gun again sir ?

you talkin to me?

yepp

well what the hell are you talking about...bring out the gun?? im confused...you not making any sense..

Originally posted by sirCyco

Originally posted by jozuph

Originally posted by sirCyco
brr u gonna bring out the gun again sir ?

you talkin to me?

yepp

well what the hell are you talking about...bring out the gun?? im confused...you not making any sense..

i do, i remembered the al qaida-hussein topic...besides it was a joke

do, i remembered the al qaida-hussein topic...besides it was a joke

oh ok..haha

i have a sense of humor

[Edited on 11-19-2003 by sirCyco]

Originally posted by sirCyco
do, i remembered the al qaida-hussein topic...besides it was a joke

oh ok..haha

i have a sense of humor

[Edited on 11-19-2003 by sirCyco]

Thnk GOD for that