TC,

psychopaths cannot be rehabilitated.

all you can do is watch them.

at best if you can find a way to scare them and then maintain that fear then there is a degree of control but that disappears the minute the threat to them is removed.

some people have not been around much in life and they are not wise to reality that exists for many of us.

I agree Thomas Crowne that these pathetic, low life,worthless pieces of human excrement should be put down immediately. However, our courts don't do that, with appeals and stays ect..ect... They can sit on their ass on death row for decades. Protected from the other inmates and getting three square meals a day. With all the protesters against the Death Penalty I feel sooner or later it will be abolished. My suggestion of making them work hard labor in the mines seemed to be the only other alternative. Here they would be away from the public, with no possible chance of escape. They would never see the light of day or be able to converse with another inmate.
I signed the petition for the Death Penalty in Washington State. That was when a friend of mine was raped, tortured, and killed. I believe the man that did this is still sitting on Death Row. This guy lived directly across the street from my friend. He had a torture chamber in the basement. It made one young officer so ill he passed out! The killer was linked to atleast 5 other murders of young women.

i agree with you,

but when there setting there waiting for there death, they at least get some of the fear and pain that they have coused....

i say make them work untell they die

Originally posted by MountainStar
I agree Thomas Crowne that these pathetic, low life,worthless pieces of human excrement should be put down immediately. However, our courts don't do that, with appeals and stays ect..ect... They can sit on their ass on death row for decades. Protected from the other inmates and getting three square meals a day. With all the protesters against the Death Penalty I feel sooner or later it will be abolished. My suggestion of making them work hard labor in the mines seemed to be the only other alternative. Here they would be away from the public, with no possible chance of escape. They would never see the light of day or be able to converse with another inmate.
I signed the petition for the Death Penalty in Washington State. That was when a friend of mine was raped, tortured, and killed. I believe the man that did this is still sitting on Death Row. This guy lived directly across the street from my friend. He had a torture chamber in the basement. It made one young officer so ill he passed out! The killer was linked to atleast 5 other murders of young women.

I can see that this is obviously a touchy subject for you and I'm sorry about your friend. If you have lost somebody in that way then I can understand wh ythe death penalty seems just. You have lost a precious life to you, so the killer should lose his life. However, rehabilitation can work. If you have such a distaste to people who kill then why do you wan t people to be killed by the government?I agree that if somebody has done something like the event you described then they shouldn't just be given some pills adn let out. They should be made to learn that what they did was wrong adn they should serve their time. And if they are rehabilitated then maybe they can enter the free world again. Many people also suffer from mental illness that can lead to them committing a murder. Do these people deserved to be killed? It's not their fault that they were disturbed. People have problems. People who end up doing stuff like this have usually had a mesed up life, been surrouded by violence, or whitnessed death at a young age. It's my opinion that they deserve one chance to become straight. This does not mean they are let off by the way.

Bull crap. Quit making excuses for the animalistic criminal.
We are all human, we all know right from wrong.
An 88 year old Sunday school teacher in a country curch a few miles up the road, was stabbed to death last week in her home. Eighty-eight years old, always with a smile and a heart full of warmth and compassion for her fellow human beings, and an animal posed as one of those stabbed her to death for some cash.

Rehabilitation? Take these two examples I've given, rehab them and then move them next door to you. You rehab the petty thief, you rehab the drug criminal, you kill those convicted of heinous crimes. Remove the threat from the face of the earth, once and for all, and let their death be a warning to the next animal that feels he can't control his impulses.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne


Rehabilitation? Take these two examples I've given, rehab them and then move them next door to you. You rehab the petty thief, you rehab the drug criminal, you kill those convicted of heinous crimes. Remove the threat from the face of the earth, once and for all, and let their death be a warning to the next animal that feels he can't control his impulses.

Some people do not know right from wrong. Some people have been #ed up ok. Heres an example of a case I saw on late night TV. This kid was molsted and raped by his father for years and years and years and one day he shot him. Could you imagine the hate and pain and rage you would feel if you had been abused that badly for so long? It's #ed the guy up. He doesn't need to die becuase he can be helped. I think if people cannot be helped then they should lock them up and throw away the key but I will never agree with murder as a soloution to murder, IT MAKES NO #ING SENSE.

[Edited on 23-11-2003 by earthtone]

That isn't the same thing, and I've never heard of a case such as that where the victim of such abuse received the death penalty. That isn't "rehabilitation", but much needed psychiatric treatment.

There are, unfortunately, cases such as the Vampire of Sacremento, that was so squirreled up from mental abuse as a child, that there was no possible rehabilitation. He'd been in mental wards a few times, and everytime before release, the ward staff advised that the man was seriously screwed and would commit horrible crimes. He did. The crimes were unspeakable. If you are interested, I'm sure you can do a search and find the case.

If all the evidence is from the Police as it often is for murder then how reliable are they. How many times has it been proved at a later date that evidence used at the time was faulty or just wrong.
Its then bad enough to have keep someone in jail for tens of years but if a death sentance had been carried out Oh dear!

However, rehabilitation can work. If you have such a distaste to people who kill then why do you wan t people to be killed by the government?

COME ON.... do you REALLY believe the man that killed my friend and the others could have been rehabilitated? Would you want this "supposedly rehabed monster) living next door to you? Where have you been living all your life? In some fantasy world where everything is happy all the time?

According to the FBI there are still 35-50 Serial Killers still at large in the United States. Other estimates put the number of killers close to 500. It is believed that presently there are up to 6,000 people a year dying, at the hands of serial killers.

"We the people" decide the fate of these murderous monsters by a trial, judge and jury. Than the sentence is carried out.

earthtone say's

People who end up doing stuff like this have usually had a messed up life, been surrounded by violence or witnessed death at a young age.

Yeah but...... What if it's bred into them? Remember Jeremy Strohmeyer? He's the young man who kidnapped, raped and murdered a 7 year old girl in a Primm Casino. Jeremy was adopted as a baby and raised by normal non-abusive parents. Millions of people had a messed up childhood and don't become killers.
I worked in a locked psychiatric unit. It held (the worst of the worst mental patients) You are utterly locked in there with them. There was one fellow who weighed about 300 lbs and stood over 6 feet tall. He severely beat up his girlfriend, because he didn't want to take his medications. Even with her severe injuries..... ie fractured skull, broken bones, massive bruises she managed to call the cops. Six cops arrived at the scene and six cops were thrown around, like rag dolls! Finally more cops were called in and got the guy subdued.

He was taken to the locked psychistric unit. I guess he had been off his psych medications for a long time. So I had the pleasure of meeting this gentleman the second day in. On that day he was allowed to walk the unit. I was sitting at the main desk while my other co-worked went to lunch. The smoking rules were a patient can only smoke one cigarette per hour.

There was a phone to the left of me just above my head. This phone was for stat emergency help only. If the receiver is picked up and the red button is pushed... it immediatle alerts all male personnal to the locked unit. (basically it means a nurse needs help...patient out of control)

Well this big fellow comes up to my desk and asks for a cigarette. No problem....I gave him one and lit it for him. Five minutes later...he comes back wanting another cigarette. At that time I said, I'm sorry sir the rules are that you can only have one cigarette per hour. He rocked back and forth grinding his teeth and demanded again " Give me a cigarette!" Again I repeated the rule on cigarette distribution. Now he's really getting PISSED! He grabbed the phone above my head and wrapped the cord around my neck while tightening the cord. (this would not automatically send out a stat call for help because the red button was not pushed)

The cigarettes were kept locked-up in my desk. Than he yelled, " GIVE ME A GOD DAMN CIGARETTE BITCH!" While tightening the cord even more around my neck. I nodded and choked okay...okay.... Finally he slackened the cord and I was able to unlock the desk drawer.

I gave the man a WHOLE FREAKIN CARTON OF SMOKES! I didn't care if I lost my job or not.

Fact is this man would have killed me. There's no doubt in my mind.

Ok here are my thoughts on it. I used to be for the death penalty, however I watched a documentary where they followed this dealth row inmate and you got to see his family come in to talk to him while he ate his last meal. Of course the family was devistated and after seeing how the family was, it kind of changed my mind a bit. However...I must say that if someone killed one of my children they would not live to see jail because I would take them out before they ever got there. Sorry this mom is real defensive of her children. Another thought I have had is what about dropping them off in the Amazon and let them fend for themselves? If they do make it out, I guarantee you they would be changed forever....

You do see victims familys often not agreeing with the killer being put to death. It is not moral. Some people see thsi, some people don't. I understand both sides thoe argument but I chose the moral way.

Originally posted by earthtone
I was really interested to start debate on this topic. How many people here at ATS agree with the death sentance. Do you think that it is a just punishment for a criminal. I do not agree. I think that any country that has the death penalty is accepting the failure of it's system. If you are killing somebody you are not changing what has happened you are merely putting another dead person to the list. I dont think anywhere in Eurpoe still has the death penalty ( correct me if I'm wrong) and I think it's time that it was stopped.

Death penalty is good because it makes at least some people think before doing something.

Also I think it is cheaper to have people on death row then keeping them in jail for 50+ years.

Oh , that was a nice weekend. Relaxing, I see old Thomas and eastcoast were parked in front of the PC for quite some time. Can be quite addicting can't it? Almost like you can't control which world you are particpating in. You think your participating , but all you're doing is hogging bandwidth. I can see how it would be easy for somebody, such as U2, to lose a bit of reality and maybe, let's say, SNAP!! and stab your 80 year old grandmother in the eye. My point is you and I don't know what anyone has experienced in life and if you don't know what your talking about then you shouldn't take such a strong stand. I say put the bastards to work(something that benefits society directly), hard labor, punish them for their crime, while giving them a chance for rehab. They will never get out of prison anyway and the government gets cheap labor. Killing them is just wrong and both of you are sick for being so quick to pull the trigger.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by earthtone
Jeeze. You guys are some pretty gutless people. I hope one day you find yourself locked up for whatever reason and you might understand that humans arn't faultless and no matter what they need a chance to rehabilitate as apposed to just being destroyed.

Theoretically beautiful. Realistically, rubbish. I had the opportunity to work in the prison system for one year (Fortunately, a couple hundred of us were laid off due to the politicians giving themselves a payraise, and in doing so, costing many state employees their jobs), and can tell you that the whole notion of "rehabilitation" is total and vulgar nonsense. You cannot rehabilitate those who were not first "habilitated"

Here's an example of a disgusting dog that should be put down: A pedophile sex offender was released, and he moved to another state. He moved in with a woman and her four year old daughter. Yes, you stupid idiots, I said her innocent, four year old daughter. This pathetic, sick, sorry piece of garbage beat the child, broke her little jaw, and then poured scalding water on her.
I don't know about you sick bastards, but anyone who would not pull the switch on such animals and rid them from society once and for all are the barbaric ones. Let's here it for that good ol' relative morality, that swell idea of rehabilitation.
Hey, Jozeph, why don't we send those animals to your world, let you hug them all better, huh? Stupid.

woef, euh well huggin to death does sound funny right..hug them al better is a not so funny joke though, let me ask u this. Whats exactly against trying to 'cure' people like those pedophiles u talk about and if that doesnt work they stay in custody the rest of their lives but at least we try..and ik think its better then frying retarded people, or frying people that didnt even do where they are killed for..like i stated b4, kill and be killed, if thats the society u like i understand again certain events in the states.

Originally posted by jozuph

Whats exactly against trying to 'cure' people like those pedophiles u talk about and if that doesnt work they stay in custody the rest of their lives but at least we try..and ik think its better then frying retarded people, or frying people that didnt even do where they are killed for..like i stated b4, kill and be killed, states.

My thoughts exactely. Why not try and make a difference instead of just killing. Killing is morally wrong under any sircumstance in my opionion. If we just keep killing people who do these horrible things are we ever going to solve these sorts of problems? Why not try and understand why people do these things so they can be helped/ treated and it can be prevented in the future. Or we can just fry their brains.

i am for the death penalty except for that of minors please read my blog on that

Rehabilitation for pedophiles...yuck...once you cross that threshold there should be no going back to society. I'd even advocate castration, but this is not the issue. It shouldn't even be part of a death penality debate because they don't excute pedophiles they barely excute child murderers. I think I've already typed that. These things are decided in a prosecutors office. It should be taken out of their hands and put to statues. If you do this crime you get this time. If you repeat this crime you get life. That's it. Time is not a deterent it's a punishment and manditory sentences should be strictly enforced--no bail, no good behavior. Do you think John Hinkley would be alive if he were not rich? The system is #ed just like everything in america you can buy your way out. We need to end that crap.

All murder is wrong.

[Edited on 25-11-2003 by Saphronia]

ALL MURDER IS WRONG

I support the death penalty very much. I believe the cost of the executions should be billed to the families. Public executions would also be better in the united states, that way people would think twice. Buy some popcorn and enjoy the show. On to methods of execution: The same way you killed a person is the way a criminal should die, but much slower. If a person rapes a young girl, have her male relatives come and beat that SOB to death in front of the whole town. The bodies could be sold for farm feed to the pigs as cost adjustment practices.