TODAYS ISSUE: The Death Penalty

Earthtone, I appreciate your view. I am not hard-hearted and close-minded. As I stated before, DNA testing must be across the board. And I have absolutely no problem with going back and reviewing as many cases as necessary. Even though law enforcement personnel and DA's hate to ever admit they were wrong. Screw them. OPEN IT UP. I stand behind my support of it, though, in extreme cases.

Originally posted by MrJingles
The death penalty was not built for revenge. It was built as punishment. Ever read The Crucible? Want that to happen?The Crucible was not in existence when God gave Moses the Commandments, I'm afraid.

The death penalty is wrong. A matter of opinion. If somebody can go so off course and do something so horrible that they deserve to die, can't they be rehabilitated? That depends on the spirit of the killer. Ok, God said the death penalty is ok? Read the book of Deuteronomy. The answer is God sanctioned the death penalty for the reason I stated previously: To instill fear among his people. Fear of retribution. what about the part for being kind to man? Treat others as they would treat you ( dont remember exactly how it goes). That was Jesus speaking from the pages of the New Testament. He also commanded his followers to obey the laws of their governments. Seriosly, put them through intensive radical rehab. There are alot of other options besides death people. think.

Just an aside: It costs more per year to feed and keep a prisoner than it does to support a soldier in one year. That's messed up.

I don't support state-sponsored murder. Some people are ill and do some scary, crazy #, but that's the society we live in. You can't deter a mentally ill pedophile with the death penalty, and they don't even use the death penalty for average child abusers. You basically have to engage in mass child murder before they even consider it, and it's the same for rape. Even then, they only use it when the publicity will help their next campaign.

"I'm tough on crime."

Tough on crime is reaching out to the community you are policing, not murdering citizens indiscriminately. I believe laws should be enforced according to their impact on our society. Laws are broken everyday by all people. Why is it that 70% of the people on deathrow are black men. When black people are less than 13% of the population. They kill poor people...NOT PEDOPHILES-NOT RAPIST, but folk who committed money crimes and crimes of passion.

Example: if you kill a cop you get the death penalty automatically. This law is designed to murder those that rob and run. If you rob-you run, you don't just sit waiting for the cops to come get you. And, if a cop is shooting at you--what are you going to do? Shoot back. That's how most people end up on deathrow.

This is the problem--folk believe that capital punishment is for the worst of criminals, but it's not. They put the poor on deathrow. Liquor store robberies, drug abusers that rob out of dependance, and folk that kill out of passion--all of these people could be rehabilitated. The fact that some of you support the system, and have no idea how it works, and who it kills is disgusting to me.

So GOD says its ok to instill fear in people? Wow never heard that one before, except from dictators. Some people I will admit are irreversable and cannot be rehabilitated. That doesnt mean we should kill them, its a worse punishment to never see the sun or another person in a prison cell than it is to die.

Death does not solve problems, if it did, we wouldnt be having this discussion right now.

The views I have stated on this thread are obviously coming from the conservative side of the house. Saphronia's from the left. The beautiful thing about our system of governance is that those from both sides of the aisle can, or should come together to hammer out a fair and balanced approach to the issue. I acknowledge abuses have occurred and things need to change. I also acknowledge that judges should have the right to make rulings on a case by case basis - unlike what John Ashcroft has recently decreed with regard to rulings. (Making judges hand out the stiffest possible penalties.)
I stick to my belief that certain ghastly crimes - with the use of DNA technology - deserve the penalty of death.

Originally posted by MrJingles
So GOD says its ok to instill fear in people? Wow never heard that one before, except from dictators. Some people I will admit are irreversable and cannot be rehabilitated. That doesnt mean we should kill them, its a worse punishment to never see the sun or another person in a prison cell than it is to die.

Death does not solve problems, if it did, we wouldnt be having this discussion right now.

You can find the laws given to Moses by God in the Old Testament books of law (i.e. Deuteronomy) Western law is based on Mosaic law.

I reject that my views are from the left. There are many liberals that support the death penalty as you can see from this thread.

Bottom line, nobody likes crime in their community and I want the criminals punished just as much if not more than you do. But, the time has to be according to the effect of their crime on our society. Do the crime- do the time, that's how I feel. But, the system is jacked up, and to continue supporting it is wrong no matter what side you support. The worst of criminals are put in hospitals or given tiny sentences while the poor people are put on deathrow. That's jacked up.

I would never support any kind of murder. This is true. But, I've supported the conservative view on crime and I don't support gun control. I think we have to let go of these old lines and really deal with what works and what doesn't.

Originally posted by Saphronia
I reject that my views are from the left. There are many liberals that support the death penalty as you can see from this thread.

Bottom line, nobody likes crime in their community and I want the criminals punished just as much if not more than you do. But, the time has to be according to the effect of their crime on our society. Do the crime- do the time, that's how I feel. But, the system is jacked up, and to continue supporting it is wrong no matter what side you support. The worst of criminals are put in hospitals or given tiny sentences while the poor people are put on deathrow. That's jacked up.

I would never support any kind of murder. This is true. But, I've supported the conservative view on crime and I don't support gun control. I think we have to let go of these old lines and really deal with what works and what doesn't.

On matters such as the death penalty, as this thread shows, some will never change their minds. That does not mean, however, those who disagree cannot meet in the middle to effect the best possible solution.

In my opinion, the bottom line is there are some individuals who do deserve the death penalty. This view can be illustrated best by the words of an Iraqi man explaining why Saddam was so effective in his rule.

"Saddam was a hard man. You have to be a hard man to rule the Iraqi people. If you are not a hard man, you will be dead tomorrow."

That is the cold, hard reality in this world. With all due respect, sometimes you have to be hardcore to deal with hardcore.

I respect everyones opinions, and I have stated mine. In my eyes the death penalty is wrong.

BTW East coast kid...Fortuna Favet Fortibus- luck favors fortune? I'm trying to translate using my limited latin skills. Am I right?

Originally posted by earthtone
I was really interested to start debate on this topic. How many people here at ATS agree with the death sentance. Do you think that it is a just punishment for a criminal. I do not agree. I think that any country that has the death penalty is accepting the failure of it's system. If you are killing somebody you are not changing what has happened you are merely putting another dead person to the list. I dont think anywhere in Eurpoe still has the death penalty ( correct me if I'm wrong) and I think it's time that it was stopped.

It has nothing to do with whether or not it will change the past, but it is the just and proper punishment for certain crimes. I pray nothing ever happens in your life to give you a personal reason for your view to change.

As far as whether or not the death penalty is an option in Europe really means nothing to me. As a civilization that is decaying even faster than ours, I do not care how they do it over there as I would expect them to not care how we do things.

I was always a huge supporter of the death penalty. I wrote a paper on it in high school. Wrote diary entries about my happiness with vindication in relation to high profile executions (Ted Bundy). After all these year, and the more that I read...I have ammended my position. I first BELIEVe that many people deserve to DIE for their crimes. I've separate that belief from whether our system can fairly determine who deserves to die and whether it's carried out fairly. I've often said that if a perpetrator plead guilty or was caught in the crime, and if the family in a crime of passion killed the offender, they should automatically get a ticket to walk free. My problem is that I'm unsure how to justify or account for this in our system of justice. I also have begun to believe and understand the point some people make about "one innocent's death" is too high a price to pay for the "luxury" of being able to kill the guilty ones. I can't imagine being innocent and being executed. Sure, God or whatever probably reimburses these people...but my god...I can't imagine what they experience before that deliverence (if there is any). Also, does the universe pay back those that convict and kill the innocent?? What if they didn't know? What if they did know. These questions are huge. I've also begun to consider how horrible a life of confinement can be (not all prison's are country clubs). And then recently I was disgusted by this Green River guy who was going to skate on a potential death sentence in exchange for giving information. A friend of mine pointed out the relief that the families who "don't know" can get and that the relief for them is more important the the "service paid" by the death. Some of the other victim's families agreed with this. It's difficult. No matter what happens, I still stand by my position that I'll be the one to execute anyone that kills or rapes my loved ones...thereby relieving the system of this quandry. That's my 2 cents.

Originally posted by MrJingles
I respect everyones opinions, and I have stated mine. In my eyes the death penalty is wrong.

BTW East coast kid...Fortuna Favet Fortibus- luck favors fortune? I'm trying to translate using my limited latin skills. Am I right?

FORTUNE FAVORS THE BOLD
Motto of the LRRPs, 101st Airborne Division

the death penalty is for barbaric people..so it suits the states very well

You are correct, it is for brutal and barbaric people. They are the ones who get strapped in.

Anti-death penalty is for those who no longer have the backbone to do what is necessary.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You are correct, it is for brutal and barbaric people. They are the ones who get strapped in.

Anti-death penalty is for those who no longer have the backbone to do what is necessary.

word, i just read somewhere on the board that even mentally retarded can get the death penalty in the states..something for bush ?
but we all knew that the states are kind of barbaric...but i see your in favor of the death penalty too, so your just as bad as the ones being killed..wich means u schould be strapped too and have your brains [wich aint much then probably] be blown out also..

No, crap for brains, I know the difference between a mass murderer and one who has the understanding that capital punishment is for the mass murderer, unlike you.

Also, unlike you, I understand the difference between your and you're, as you fail to use the right one at the right time. Don't show up for a battle of wits armed with nothing more than that hat rack of yours.

i say bring back fireing squads and public hangings! thatll scar people that want to commit capital crimes.

When I was in Saudi Arabia the crime rate was all of 2% as opposed to our exorbitant percentage. TWO PERCENT. They had a public execution every Friday and God help you if they caught your western azz. They'd push you to the front so you would get a REAL good look at how they deal with criminals. FEAR WORKS. Not always, but most the time.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
No, crap for brains, I know the difference between a mass murderer and one who has the understanding that capital punishment is for the mass murderer, unlike you.

Also, unlike you, I understand the difference between your and you're, as you fail to use the right one at the right time. Don't show up for a battle of wits armed with nothing more than that hat rack of yours.

nice dog u have there, bit cheap to attack people cause there motherlanguage isnt english,aint it..but maybe that your style [looks like that he]..would like to hear u speak dutch though., at least i try.
so u know the difference between a mass murderer and one who has the understanding that capital punishment is for the mass murderer ? I believe there hasnt been one mass murderer who killed more then your goverment did ? or maybe u know one ? maybe that dog of yours...
So u think u are better then a murderer because you kill murderers..this makes u a murderer yourself. Its barbaric to kill people, no mather what they did. its against god [who u probly gonna use next time to justify your acts] to kill..not that this is a reason for me cause there is no god. i think killing people is wrong, no mather what they did and u know what is my luck ? In my country, like most, they think alike. and thats why i dont have to walk around in a camouflage suit like u do :]]..having a pussycat on the leach.



[Edited on 20-11-2003 by jozuph]

[Edited on 20-11-2003 by jozuph]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
When I was in Saudi Arabia the crime rate was all of 2% as opposed to our exorbitant percentage. TWO PERCENT. They had a public execution every Friday and God help you if they caught your western azz. They'd push you to the front so you would get a REAL good look at how they deal with criminals. FEAR WORKS. Not always, but most the time.

hihi man you make yourself look like a real fool, now they are good cause it fits your case, aint that the typical problem you americans have