Originally posted by sirCyco
inadvertantly gets hooked on once-needed pain killers.

ha....thats a joke...OC is a hardcore drug that can be crushed and SHOT UP...nobody gets "inadvertantly" addicted to anything unless they allow them selves to...thats pathetic!

I see you are not experienced in chronic pain or such pain killers being used under a doctor's prescription, elsewise you'd not be so non-chalant. Of course, lack of experience or knowledge need not slow anybody down around here, huh? Or maybe you had a failed spinal chord surgery as Rush did, was on pain medication way long enough to become addicted, but merely tossed them aside. Good for you, tough guy. And my father laid smokes down after smoking three packs of Marlborros/day for decades. Great, not everybody is the same.
The fact of the matter is for people to be so vile and hateful as to make Rush sound like a common crackhead shows that they have no guidance whatsoever, and also indicates that the liberals have so little to attack that is a worthwhile target, they'll make themselves look like unguided fools trying to find something. This is the first time I've even looked at this thread because I knew exectly how stupid and unsubstantive it would be, and the libs did not disappoint me! Thanks guys, for keeping your usual low standards and two-faced positions, you really show who is truly compassionate and who is merely full of crap!

The fact of the matter is for people to be so vile and hateful as to make Rush sound like a common crackhead

crackheads dont preach their views to the whole country as does rush does....

and no i dont believe people get accidently addicted to anything...they are fully aware of the dangers of pain killers and if they are not then thats still there fault.... you act like he is some poor victim...



[Edited on 11-19-2003 by sirCyco]

Originally posted by jezebel

As far as prescription drug addictions being different from illegal drug addiction, you couldn't be farther from the truth.

Not to be an ass, but I don't care where you've worked. I've watched some old high school friends of mine fall of the radar and become addicted to crack and powder. I've seen what they do for their habits, and I see how they live. My wife was once addicted to pain killers and not once did we live in the projects or live like slobs. Nor was she not able to hold a job or perform like a normal, upstanding member of society.

Please tell me how being addicted to pain killers and being a crackhead are so similar.

Rush was addicted for so many years, and his wife didn't even have total knowledge of it. If he was a "junkie," like the all-knowing Colonel states, I'd bet my life savings that his wife would have know immediately.

In conclusion, there is a vast difference between a "junkie" and someone addicted to pain killers. And the initiation of pain killers vs. the initiation of smoking a rock is the biggest difference.

And just for the record, let me state that I'm far from a Rush fan. Let's just get that out there.

What, you think that someone using painkillers under a doctor's care can't get hooked? What little knowledge you have. As a matter of fact, I do not believe you are that unbelievably stupid, I think you are talking out of your arse because your mouth knows better.

You see, I assure you that one can get hooked on prescribed pain meds, and I assure you that the addiction is aas tough to break as anything. But the difference, for those who are mentally deficient and can't figure this out for themselves, is that the crackhead did it to himself, regardless of all the warnings from his above-average friends and reasonably wise adult teachers, parents, etc, he decided he would be stupid and use drugs, thereby shooting himself in the foot. Rush, on the other hand, had to take pain meds because of a surgery that was unsuccessful. Even the stoners and single digit IQ awardees can wrap there little braincell around that concept.

On second thought, I'm probably expecting too much. As a matter of fact, I'm sure of that.

Rush should have stayed with the doctors prescribed usage...the bottle has warnings on the side in bright orange stickers....use only as directed...abuse may lead to addiction...with somebody with the money and resources such as rush...i think its not very hard to imagine that he could have keep an addiction easily in check..unless he just liked the high. which is obviously what happened.

And just what, exactly, did Rush the Hypocrite Limbaugh require such hardcore painkillers for? That anal cyst that kept him out of Vietnam? Hmmmmm?

And No, TC, a crackhead and a prescription dope addict are not so different. A prescription dope addict knows his # is addictive. Many prescription addicts are basically wannabe street junkeis that take the legal drug route instead.

There is no difference. For a man like Rush, Mr High Moral Ground holier than though judgemental "tough guy" to fall prey to the same vices he is so eager to condemn others for, he deserves every opunce of fecal matter and mud being slung at him.

If he dont wanna fall so hard, he shouldnt have sat so high on that holy pedestal of his.

He brought this # on his own volition.

And I hope they fry him.

Some of you are astonishingly naive and it's obvious that there are some candy asses on here who have never had the misfortune of knowing someone addicted to street drugs.

Anyone who has seen their old friends pawn their family's jewelry or sell their car for $100 to get a fix would know what I'm talking about. And I've never seen a damn pill head do any of those things.

FACT: The difference is huge.

Originally posted by kramtronix
My wife was once addicted to pain killers and not once did we live in the projects or live like slobs. Nor was she not able to hold a job or perform like a normal, upstanding member of society.

Please tell me how being addicted to pain killers and being a crackhead are so similar.

I am happy for you and your wife that you did not have to experience what happens when you hit rock bottom. There are people which are addicted to legal or illegal drugs, which can maintain a productive and normal life. There are also a large number of people that cannot do this for long. This doesn't vary with the legality of the drug. Rush wasn't getting his medication thru a doctor, he was getting them from the same black market that junkies get their drugs.

Addiction is addiction. Injecting heroin to suppress psychological pain is no different than injecting morphine or taking oxycontin to relieve physical pain. The only diffence is that one of them is manufactured by a licensed company, and the other is not.

I think that my experience in the pharmacy is quite relevant to this discussion. I have seen and known those "pillheads" that you say you have never seen risk or lose everything like a common crackhead does. I was also married to a guy that caused me to lose almost everything because of his heroin addiction. Fortunately, I got out of that situation before anything to traumatizing happened. I used to think like you do, until I started working in the pharmacy. Then I realized that the number of people that get high & are addicted to legal amphetamines, opiates, or barbituates is far more than I ever would have imagined. I have seen people, including my uncle, risk everything, their family, job, arrest, just to get their pills. Pills, like Vicodin & Darvocet, that weren't half as addicting as Oxycontin.
As for the Oxycontin addicts, this is the lengths they have gone to:

From May 1997 through April 2002, 156 armed robberies of drug stores have been reported in the state (Massachusetts), but the sharp spike from January to April alarmed police, pharmacy owners and Purdue Pharma, the company that makes the "wonder" drug.

Robberies prompt Cave's Drug to stop selling OxyContin, armed guard now posted at local drug store.
"We'll no longer carry OxyContin on the premises,'' Cave said. "We're going to put in extra security and extra cameras and put a sign in the window saying we won't carry it.''


There is a point when an addiction is developing, that a person is aware that it is becoming harder to go without the medication or drug. It is the same denial that illegal drug addicts use, which allows prescription addicts to ignore those warning signs.

In conclusion, there is a vast difference between a "junkie" and someone addicted to pain killers. And the initiation of pain killers vs. the initiation of smoking a rock is the biggest difference.

The only difference is that the illegal drug "junkie" started out getting his drug on the black market, so he doesn't have the cop-out of "the doctor gave it to me, so it's all his fault" in order to justify his actions.

Originally posted by Bout Time

Originally posted by astrocreep
My point is, be careful who you paint as a villian because tomorrow, your side may be under attack for the same or worse. While we're all taking our "pot shots" at Rush, we might leave a couple of outs for the next time Old Jesse gets into something or Al Gore's son is pulled over under the influence of cocaine. Hey, kids will experiment, won't they?

That's the problem with the view of debate/issues, as seen by the Right.
While there has been a relentless attack on all figures of the Left by Rush Limbaugh, and particular to the drug addiction issue as seen by his quotes while during his junkie phase that I had posted earlier in the thread, we are to now take a metered stance on the amount of worthy ridicule thrown at Rush because we "might-someday-it-could-happen" have an addict among us?
STRAW MAN ARGUMENT!

(*Note to Mods: due to the high frequency of Right Wing Straw Man Arguments, can we get an icon of a scarecrow ? It'll save typing! )

On Kids: tell me that the Middle to Left did NOT treat those Druken Putas called the Bush twins, or the Frebase Kid who took after Uncle Monkey, Nicolle Bush, with kid gloves?
Go back to 1998 & tell me with a straight face that Rush/Hannity/Farwell et al, would NOT have piled on heavy if Chelsea was half the PUTA that the Bush Twins are?

No, Bout Time, you're right about the hypocrisy. I'm not on the right so I'm not sure if their pulling out all the stops to defend Rush or not as I've been in a location/professional transition the last month or so and haven't followed much news.

I can't really demonize someone for getting addicted to pain meds because I'm sure we all know or know of someone who is or has been. I haven't had any serious injury or illness (aside from a broken foot a couple years back that seemed fine when I took some OTC motrin) that would require my taking any so I have no idea how difficult it is to stop once you become dependant. But, I say if Rush broke the law, then the law he must deal with just like any one of us.

Being part of the drug traffic in the US is the same whether its narcotics or prescript drugs paid for most often by entitlement programs before they hit the street. Thats my big beef right there. With state sponsored health care in such peril, we now have millionaires contributing to its decline as most of the prescript drugs on the street were obtained through such programs.

If Rush required pain meds to continue to do his job, then he should have hired a doctor to prescribe them legally and that would have been his own business. Those of us who have on occasion dropped in to listen to Coast to Coast AM have seen such back trouble force Art Bell into retirement so from what I've read and heard, a messed up lumbago is a pretty serious ailment. The issue is not really Rush's need for meds which seemed legit but rather the illegal procurement which he should be held as accountable as the next guy/gal.

As for the argument of Chelsea, I guess she's a pretty clean cut girl. Oh, I've seen picks of her in Paris with a glass of wine or smoking but thats just a part of being an adoloescent and experimenting. I haven't heard much news coverage about her and thought that Hillary had put her private life off limits to the press way back when Bill was president so we really don't know that much about her but she does seem to carry herself with more dignity than the Bush twins or Al Gore's son, and certainly more dignity than either of her parents but like I said, experimentation is all a part of growing up and I guess even the most powerful have to deal with some rowdy kids.

What I am suprised about is your aparent lack of understanding for constructive criticism of the left. I know and have read that you and The Colonel love to demonize the right but it doesn't hurt to admit that from time to time, even those we value as mentors and leaders can submit to human error. See, in my above post, I applauded Chelsea Clinton for her demeanor in public as compared to the Bush girls but the meantion of Al Gore's son's mistake, even though I didn't demonize him for it will likely draw a mirad of excuses and personal attacks to explain it all away when in reality, all we can say is the young man messed up like so many do and will probabaly learn a lesson. It is not neccesary to demonize one side or another and exhonorate everything the opposite does. Thats what i hate about politics because in our heart of hearts we know that everyone is corruptable at some level and no one in that circle is above it. Either you play the game or you don't play at all, I guess. i choose not to play at all but someone has too or we wouldn't have leadership. My point is, lets keep expectations of these people within rationality. each side has good and bad. each side has things that benefit our society and each side has things that are detrimental. In the end, I think we're going to find that they're really not that different.

Originally posted by astrocreep
In the end, I think we're going to find that they're really not that different.

Not different at all, in a holistic sense. After all, take a look at everything from Jockeys to world class sprinters - they are all copies of each other with the most minute of variance. Politicians that actually get elected ( key distinction) are no different.
I've not abandoned reasonable thought or deified any side over the other, since they are all human & fallible in the end.
But on this thread topic in this forum, I'll sling the mud because it's highly deserving. He is someone that was a stone cold hypocrite for being completely on a legal high ilegally when he preached loud, far, and wide about the strong penalty deserved by drug addicts. By virtue of that alone, he forfeited every shred of compassion that should be afforded to him. And if there was even an iota of compassion still possible, that too was voided by the fact that the millionaire not only kept his job, but also used it to further pontificate his 'stand above' status.
We are at a point in this country of having to adopt the Atkins Diet. Where the all protein no carbs diet is bemoaned by nutritionist as being unsound in the long term, it is stellar at eliminating the reserved vestiges of poor diet. The analogy to America? We have a Right Wing overload to the point of obesity where we need to have a fired up "here's the meat, in your face, you're not getting away with it anymore" - type of correction, against the Right. At every turn. Without exception.
The Right has always enjoyed a monopoly on the loud and obnoxious void of content. They still have that and will never be beaten at it, because of their limited consideration of options ( the definition of 'conservative' ). But, now that they are countered with loud, obnoxious with content, look at them yelling for a truce.
About the whole politics is a game and either/neither side is for you, that's true. But another analogy: I came from a lower blue collar union upbringing as one of seven kids in the Bronx, NY. Now each one of those seven is "The Man" - all advanced degrees & management. I know we all share the same duality of being business proponents but for the workers as well. The net being: to change the system you must be in the system and effect change from within. So, please don't think I'm blind to the game & how it plays people, because I'm in it to win it! ( a phrase stolen from my state lottery ads, but you get the meaning!)

Some of you are astonishingly naive and it's obvious that there are some candy asses on here who have never had the misfortune of knowing someone addicted to street drugs.

what the hell is your point....yes i have had personal experiences with street drugs...and again..nobody but monkeys and children dont know whats happening to them while they are using hardcore addictive drugs.....regardless of it being prescriped to them by a doctor or by your friendly neiborhood drug dealer..

[Edited on 11-20-2003 by sirCyco]

Originally posted by kramtronix
Some of you are astonishingly naive and it's obvious that there are some candy asses on here who have never had the misfortune of knowing someone addicted to street drugs.

Anyone who has seen their old friends pawn their family's jewelry or sell their car for $100 to get a fix would know what I'm talking about. And I've never seen a damn pill head do any of those things.

FACT: The difference is huge.

Um yeah, my mom switched from street drugs to prescription dope. So, no, youre wrong, the difference is NOT huge.

I know street addicts who will trade street drugs for pharmeceutical ones.

I wonder how he feels knowing that MAJOR drug dealing and money laundering where taking place on ABC property by established public figures.

Originally posted by Colonel
I wonder how he feels knowing that MAJOR drug dealing and money laundering where taking place on ABC property by established public figures.

Money laundering and drug dealing on the DISNEY PROPERTY!

Jezebel, I respect your opinion and your long-winded posts, but you're still wrong. All of you who think there isn't massive divide between the two types drug abusers are all wrong. And unless you find me a damn crackhead who maintains a life of wealth or even a NORMAL life, you'll never convince me otherwise.

While your at it, come up with some case studies comparing the lives of those who are addicted to pain killers to the lives of those who are smoking rocks, meth or shooting "H" into their arms.

They have as much in common as cigarettes do to coffee - Very, very little.

Originally posted by kramtronix
Jezebel, I respect your opinion and your long-winded posts, but you're still wrong. All of you who think there isn't massive divide between the two types drug abusers are all wrong. And unless you find me a damn crackhead who maintains a life of wealth or even a NORMAL life, you'll never convince me otherwise.

While your at it, come up with some case studies comparing the lives of those who are addicted to pain killers to the lives of those who are smoking rocks, meth or shooting "H" into their arms.

They have as much in common as cigarettes do to coffee - Very, very little.

well said kramtronix addiction to pain killer and

addicition to drug(herion, crack, etc.) are to very

different things. it just some people say stuff they say

from hatered and not for the head.

They just dont think before saying.

Good readings, Jez. However, I failed to see any statements in there from hard drug users (crack, meth or heroin) who lived like Rush. And I know why... They don't exist. People addicted to hard drugs hit rock bottom almost 99% of the time. And on the flipside, painkiller addicts may hit rock bottom 10% of the time. And I think that is a stretch.

Originally posted by kramtronix
Good readings, Jez. However, I failed to see any statements in there from hard drug users (crack, meth or heroin) who lived like Rush. And I know why... They don't exist. People addicted to hard drugs hit rock bottom almost 99% of the time. And on the flipside, painkiller addicts may hit rock bottom 10% of the time. And I think that is a stretch.

A JUNKIE is a JUNKIE is a JUNKIE---no matter if it is crack or ILLEGAL prescription drugs. And taking illegal perscription drugs is still a FELONY no matter how you want to ocouch it and give it window dressing.